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Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?!


Wroclaw Boy
30 Apr 2009  #31
Godfathers dislike for the system (namely accepted cheating) is perfectly reasonable, its these types of attitudes that Poland requires in order to better its self. There are many issues in Poland accepted by the Poles which are NOT acceptable such as bribing doctors, whats your opinion on that and many others?
OP GoDfaTheR420 6 | 43
30 Apr 2009  #32
Perhaps you should live here for a lot longer before trying to change the way of living.

If I waited and lived here longer before I tried to change things then maybe I'll develop your defeatest attitude.

By the way I'm not and ex-pat!!..I still have my British Passport! ...Who still gets his full English Breakfast, which is very much enjoyed by my wifes family, every Saturday before the football!!..

So what if I have the attitude of a Brit!...I'm sure there was a topic on here like ''Poland wake up to a multi-cultural world!!''

Cheating is deeply ingrained in the national identity. For better or for worse, it's accepted in Poland and while Western/Northern Europeans might see it as alien and strange and unacceptable - it's perfectly fine for the Poles. Leave them to it - it's their culture, not ours.

Ever heard of change!!...maybe Polish people want change!...maybe they just need a little push!...Hey if women thought like you then they still wouldn't have any rights!

A privilege and an honour? Are you living in cloud cuckoo land? Given the lack of job security and poor working conditions in many schools, it's certainly not an honour or a privilege. Even if you view it as that - you should be looking at why people are paying your wages. They're paying you to keep students happy - and if they have to cheat to be happy, then it's not an issue.

What the hell has any of that got to with it!!...Have you ever heard of Morals! I didn't study 5 years to be a sell out!!

You really don't get it, do you? Private education in a language school is a business, not a vocation.

Business or not...teachers still have a responsibility to TEACH!!! How do you not get that!?

Actually, this is where your ignorance is shining through. It's actually arguable that as many teachers coming through nowadays tried all the different ways to cheat, then it's much harder for the children to cheat in school

Actually, this is where your ignorance is shining through!!...these teachers are proffesional ''cheaters!'' ...they actually make cheating easier for the children!..I know ..I have seen them do it!...They know what to do....and how to do it. The worst thing is how blatant it is..as if they have no regard or understanding of the damage they are doing!

How do you do this, bearing in mind that you don't speak the language? I'd be very careful before slandering the medical profession in Poland, given that they often do an excellent job with a lack of resources. Or are you judging them on the basis that they don't speak English, like so many stereotypical ex-pats?

I left this till last....go to hell..I know a lot more Polish than I let on...( I have my reasons!)..but I never judge or stereotype people!

The people I'm talking about are the people who work in everyday jobs...banks...government offices...police...hospitals.....I have seen a level of incompetence that I do come usually come across....I only asked the question that if cheating is accepted then incompetence may also be part and parcel of the culture.....again I'm not an ex pat!..

Hey I'm getting my dual passport soon...still no an ex pat!!!......If i lived in Poland 200 years I'm an individual and so are my views....so stop stereotyping me!!
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,445
30 Apr 2009  #33
cheating in Poland is part of the culture and it is not only limited to school.

The problem is that Polish people often see nothing wrong with it. Nor some of them see anything wrong with not telling the truth.
LOL
porzeczka - | 102
30 Apr 2009  #34
.

Ok. It's true that some students in Poland cheat. Although, in schools that I attended to, cheating was not common and always punished. Still, I don't understand why are you implying that Poland is a country of cheaters. Cheating in schools is the source of corruption and creates the fundaments of the cheating culture. May I understand your words like that? If so, let's see, how this 'cheating in schools' looks in some other countries:

About U.S.A
"A Duke University study shows that 75 percent of students admit to cheating. 90 percent of student admit to copying someone's paper. Denise Pope, adjunct professor in the School of Education at Stanford University says, "Nationally, 75 percent of all high school students cheat."

classroom-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/cheating_is_on_the_rise#ixzz0EALTNyQO&A

"The Majority of US Students Cheat. Recent survey results from the Educational Testing Service and the Ad Council suggest that 75 percent to 98 percent of students cheat in high school."

prlog.org/10035000-the-majority-of-us-students-cheat.html

About U.K
"A quarter of university students have cheated by copying material for essays from the internet, claims a survey. Researchers, working with an exam plagiarism watchdog, say that very few of these cheating students are caught."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3852869.stm

"The use of mobile phones to help answer questions during (UK) exams helped contribute to a 9% increase in cheating."
textually.org/textually/archives/2005/04/007943.htm

"Cheating in national tests for 11-year-olds is so widespread that school league tables can no longer be trusted."
guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/28/schools.primaryeducation1

"Thousands of students cheating in exams. Almost 4,000 students were caught cheating in GCSE and A-level exams last summer, according to figures."
telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5011756/Thousands-of-students-cheating-in-exams.html

"Some British teachers `helping students cheat'. THE Times newspaper reports that senior examiners have discovered that teachers have been caught helping their students cheat in coursework that contribute towards their final GCSE and A- level grades. This included confirming pupils' coursework in writing as original despite clear indications that the children had either colluded with each other or plagiarised material from the Internet. Reports compiled by chief examiners for GCSE, A-level and vocational GNVQ courses also highlight concerns about over-generous marking and excessive assistance provided to pupils by their teachers. The complaints came from examiners for the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance (AQA) and Edexcel boards, which account for 75 per cent of the examinations taken by pupils. "

redorbit.com/news/science/35874/some_british_teachers_helping_students_cheat

Please, don't be hypocritical and don't tell us about morals. In Poland, students certainly don't cheat more, and you have no real proof that cheating is more accepted here. Przyganiał kocioł garnkowi - we would say ;)
Harry
30 Apr 2009  #35
In Poland, students certainly don't cheat more, and you have no real proof that cheating is more accepted here.

I've worked in both the British and Polish education systems. From what I saw cheating is far more common in Poland and far more accepted too.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,445
30 Apr 2009  #36
Please, don't be hypocritical and don't tell us about morals. In Poland, students certainly don't cheat more, and you have no real proof that cheating is more accepted here. Przyganiał kocioł garnkowi - we would say ;)

case of a typical Polish denial;)
IronsE11 2 | 442
30 Apr 2009  #37
you have no real proof that cheating is more accepted here

I have no proof that cheating is more accepted in Poland, but my girlfriend has often alluded to the extent of this practice. Admittedly, she also points out that most Polish exams are near impossible to pass without cheating.

Apparently, girls writing on their legs is most popular, although my girlfriend tends to go for the 'formula carved on to a biro with a protractor' technique.
porzeczka - | 102
30 Apr 2009  #38
case of a typical Polish denial;)

Maybe you could comment on the links that I posted, about U.S and U.K? And then we can talk about case of typical denial ;)

I've worked in both the British and Polish education systems. From what I saw cheating is far more common in Poland and far more accepted too.

Sorry, but this is not what I call a "real proof". As you can see personal experience can be relative and biased. Yours, mine or his... doesn't matter. From now on, only hard proofs like researches, stats or reports should be used as arguments.

I have no proof that cheating is more accepted in Poland, but my girlfriend has often alluded to the extent of this practice. Admittedly, she also points out that most Polish exams are near impossible to pass without cheating.

As for exams in college, I believe this depends on which college one attends, the same goes with cheating. Situation in the primary and secondary school is slightly different, because you have many little exams during the term, not one big (from every subject) like it is sometimes in college.

Anyway, as I recently posted, survey results from the Educational Testing Service and the Ad Council suggest that 75 percent to 98 percent of students cheat in American high school. I don't think we could beat that ;)

Talking about "cheating culture" in U.K: There is a major conspiracy of silence over this ... a culture has been created which sends the message that cheating is part and parcel of university life. In the 'customer-client culture', degrees are seen as something you pay for rather than something you have to learn. It's the new ethos of university life." Professor Frank Furedi, University of Kent

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/3852869.stm
Harry
30 Apr 2009  #39
Sorry, but this is not what I call a "real proof". As you can see personal experience can be relative and biased. Yours, mine or his... doesn't matter. From now on, only hard proofs like researches, stats or reports should be used as arguments.

How can experience be biased?!

I'm saying that my personal experience working in Poland was that cheating is far more common and much more accepted. I do not need statistics or reports to back that, I was there and know exactly what I saw. Those things included me giving a 2 to a student who didn't bother turning up to the exam or the resit exam but my mark in the register being crossed out and a mark of 5 being given by the director of the department. And then there was the time that I found the book which large sections of a thesis had been copied from, word for word! When I told the department director about it he told me he'd take care of it. That student got a 5 for her thesis.

If you want to claim that there is no problem with cheating in Polish schools, post some research or stats or reports to back that!
Salomon 2 | 436
30 Apr 2009  #40
If you want to claim that there is no problem with cheating in Polish schools, post some research or stats or reports to back that!

Post some research or stats that there is problem with cheating in Polish schools!
Harry
30 Apr 2009  #41
I'm not claiming that there is. I'm stating that my personal experience working in Poland was that cheating is far more common and much more accepted.
porzeczka - | 102
30 Apr 2009  #42
How can experience be biased?!

Sometimes experience is filtered through a biased or distorted view, and it makes you perceive and remember certain things in a certain way ;)
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #43
Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?!

maybe to be able to say that Polish education system is high?
porzeczka - | 102
30 Apr 2009  #44
First, you have to prove that cheating in Polish schools, is indeed accepted. When you prove it, you can try to answer the question. If you can't prove it, you shouldn't answer. As for now, we have only accusations, without any hard proofs.
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #45
First, you have to prove that cheating in Polish schools, is indeed accepted

It's not my thread, I don't need to prove anything.
porzeczka - | 102
30 Apr 2009  #46
True, you have no obligation to be reasonable.
panienka 1 | 205
30 Apr 2009  #47
First, you have to prove that cheating in Polish schools, is indeed accepted. When you prove it, you can try to answer the question. If you can't prove it, you shouldn't answer. As for now, we have only accusations, without any hard proofs.

Cheating is present at schools, that's a fact. Don't you believe?
Why it is accepted... I hate it. It's beneficial for teachers to get money from students... mostly at universities, when a teacher can do anything with you. Why cheating on exams is common... because it often doesn't involve severe punishments... students think they are "cool and canny".
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #48
to be reasonable.

you know what would be reasonable, for example when you guys quit thinking that your education system is unbeatable and that all Poles are smart simply because of being Polish. Just look at your arrogant statements on this forum, threads like "Polish superiority over Brits" etc. I'm not saying that all of you are like that but quite a few and not only on this forum.
pawian 153 | 8,296
30 Apr 2009  #49
As a teacher who has been working for 18 years in various types of schools in Poland, from primary to higher education, I can tell you sth based on my experience:

It's true that some students try to cheat, but no more than 5-15%.

It isn`t accepted by most teachers when they work as teachers, but it is accepted by most students and their parents, even teachers themselves.

The percentage should be reversed: about 5-15% students don`t cheat.

If so, let's see, how this 'cheating in schools' looks in some other countries:

That is different cheating, it refers to copying from the Internet mostly. But Polish students` cheating is more cheeky and complex, it also includes copying information from illegal sources during tests/exams and copying homework, at least in my work. Read this about Polish students` invention.

Post some research or stats that there is problem with cheating in Polish schools!

What for? Real life teachers are telling you sth.
Besides, do you think that Polish educational authorities will deal with such shameful statistics??? :):):):)

What do I do during tests in class?
Students sit at seperate desks. They must remove everything from the desk, even pencil cases. They mustn`t communicate, they mustn`t have mobiles, they mustn`t turn back. I never sit down, I always stand to have a better view. I never leave my eyes from my students. My failure to remain attentive throughout the test usually result in students trying to communicate.

Well, it may seem strict but we don`t treat it this way. It is like a game. :):):) They attempt to cheat and I try to catch them.

Look at the girl in the last row. She is peering at her neighbour`s paper. :):) because he was using an electronic device throughout the test. It didn`t help him, he failed.

for example when you guys quit thinking that your education system is unbeatable and that all Poles are smart simply because of being Polish.

Polish education system has many flaws but its main component is Polish students who are just great. Even with cheating which is prevalent in schools, Polish students are far better than Western ones - more intelligent, knowledgeable, with many interests. :):):) If not for Poles, Britain would have fallen long ago. :):):):)

And we are not arrogant. Who told you such *********? :):):)
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #51
Polish students are far better than Western ones - more intelligent, knowledgeable, with many interests. :):):) If not for Poles, Britain would have fallen long ago. :):):):)

I don't know about many others but they should pay you way more than any other average teacher in Poland as I can see you really know what you're talking about and thank you for your realistic point of view that helps me to strongly believe in some Polish people. :-)
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
30 Apr 2009  #52
I'm not saying that all of you are like that but quite a few and not only on this forum.

Which is in a blatant contrast to brits and americans. For sure.
pawian 153 | 8,296
30 Apr 2009  #53
I don't know about many others but they should pay you way more than any other average teacher in Poland as I can see you really know what you're talking about and thank you for your realistic point of view that helps me to strongly believe in some Polish people. :-)

Thank you for this warm evaluation. I will submit this post of yours to my superiors. :):):)
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #54
please do it. It might be helpful, who knows. :-)
pawian 153 | 8,296
30 Apr 2009  #55
Free, in one of my class books there is a nice text about British teenagers setting fire to their schools.
The court never bothered to pose the question as to why so many young people take the drastic step of committing arson, let alone why they so frequently target schools. Instead, Robertson railed against the "calculated, pre-planned wickedness" of the boys. On average, three schools a day are set on fire in Britain, with only 15 percent of these believed to be accidental. Schools are at a higher risk of arson than any other occupied buildings; only sheds and barns fare worse.

wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/fire-a01.shtml

What do you know about it? :):):) How about US?
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #56
How about US?

to be honest I don't know the statistics but I guess percentage wise it's about the same (please help me out cousins from UK on that 1). :-)
scrappleton - | 832
30 Apr 2009  #57
What do you know about it? :):):) How about US?

Setting fire to schools? Hmm, maybe in Detroit but now nobody lives there so that probably won't happen too much now. Somebody set fires to some black churches in the south about 7 years ago? I never heard about British kids doing it.
freebird 3 | 535
30 Apr 2009  #58
Somebody set fires to some black churches in the south about 7 years ago?

not that you guys get the idea it happens all the time, lol
We gotta be careful with our posts here, they might be easily misunderstood :-)
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
30 Apr 2009  #59
If I waited and lived here longer before I tried to change things then maybe I'll develop your defeatest attitude.

Do you not perhaps think that you'll meet significant opposition, given that you have next to no experience of Polish life and culture? Even ex-pats that have been here a while will often say that they're bewildered by some aspects of Polish life - so what makes you such an expert?

By the way I'm not and ex-pat!!..I still have my British Passport! ...Who still gets his full English Breakfast, which is very much enjoyed by my wifes family, every Saturday before the football!!..

So you want to change the Polish culture, yet you still indulge in the very practice that are laughed at by many Poles? As for it being enjoyed...suffered is probably a far more accurate word, except they're too polite to say so :)

Yes, you are an ex-pat. I've still got my British passport, too. But when in Rome and all that...

So what if I have the attitude of a Brit!...I'm sure there was a topic on here like ''Poland wake up to a multi-cultural world!!''

The point is that you wouldn't go to a neighbours house and start demanding that they change their way of living just to suit you. The fact that you're not even here permanently is also significant - if you don't even intend to stay in the country, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

What the hell has any of that got to with it!!...Have you ever heard of Morals! I didn't study 5 years to be a sell out!!

Morals? In ESL? Pleeeeease.... the business is more ruthless and cut throat than many other industries. Again, it's a business - morality doesn't come into it.

Business or not...teachers still have a responsibility to TEACH!!! How do you not get that!?

You're the one that seems to be struggling with the concept of the teacher being there to make the student feel good about themselves. You're not there to humiliate them, you're not there to make them feel bad - you're there to reassure and coach them. But what would you know about teaching, seeing as you're not a trained teacher?

Actually, this is where your ignorance is shining through!!

The problem is that you're talking about private schooling. It's not comparable - in private schools, teachers are paid upon results. If a teacher fails everyone and doesn't guide them, then no-one is going to send their children to that school, are they? Again, it's a business - not a vocation.

I'm sure you'll find exactly the same behaviour in private language schools in the UK. Ultimately, private teaching is all about results - and you're paid accordingly. No-one wants to hire a teacher that fails, do they?

I left this till last....go to hell..I know a lot more Polish than I let on...( I have my reasons!)..but I never judge or stereotype people!

Aha, stereotypical ex-pat who gets defensive about his lack of knowledge.

I only asked the question that if cheating is accepted then incompetence may also be part and parcel of the culture.....

I would be very careful if I were you. Calling a countries public and private sectors 'incompetent' isn't a great way to win friends, especially in a country with high nationalist feelings like Poland.

Anyway, in banks - I've had excellent service off mBank. Government offices? They bent the rules for me in Poznan, and I had excellent service from the Urząd Skarbowy. Hospitals? They're professional, although badly underfunded. Police? They let me away when crossing on a red light after realising that I was a foreigner, with a smile. Can't ask for more than that.

The problem is that you're associating cheating with incompetence, when it can be argued that cheating successfully is a sign of competence.

Hey I'm getting my dual passport soon...still no an ex pat!!!......If i lived in Poland 200 years I'm an individual and so are my views....so stop stereotyping me!!

The language? I have started learning but it seems a bit more difficult compared to my French and Spanish learning days.....don't do it!!!....I'm 10 months in and I can say hello...and well goodbye!....perfectly btw![/quote]
So you were in Poland for 10 months and could only say 'hello and goodbye', yet suddenly you claim that you know lots more? And - given the date of the post (January) - you'll have been here for what, 13 months? If you're such a great teacher, I'm sure you'll be aware that 23 months away isn't exactly 'soon' when it comes to obtaining a passport. But hey, nothing like living in a fantasy world, eh?

Your girlfriend, hmm? You won't get a Polish passport without being married and living here for three years, for a start. Where you think you'll get this Polish passport from 'soon' is a mystery to me :)

I can't help but think (especially since you posted the thread about the millions of things that you would bring to Poland, and the fact that you drink Stella) that you're simply one of those delusional expats who believes that he's somehow important to the country. You claim to have worked as a teacher in many countries, which I find hard to believe. If you had done just that, you'd understand the value in keeping your mouth shut.

Incidentally, it's pretty shameful that you've been here so long and don't even know the word 'grosz'. Rather typical expat behaviour, really.
pawian 153 | 8,296
30 Apr 2009  #60
to be honest I don't know the statistics but I guess percentage wise it's about the same (please help me out cousins from UK on that 1). :-)

Poland seems to have fewer students with arsonic interests. :):):) I googled and found 7 cases of schools with fire incidents.

Kalisz, 2004
Gliwice, 2005 and 2006
Wierzbowa, 2007
Słupsk, 2007
Bolesławiec, 2008
Tarnobrzeg, 2009

google.pl/search?q=podpali%C5%82+szko%C5%82%C4%99&hl=pl&lr=&start=0&sa=N

In case anyone wondered why I am mentioning it at all, I must say I prefer Polish cheating students to British/US arsonists. :):):):)


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