Poland's birthrate on the decline

So do you agree with Ironside that marital rape shouldn't be considered as rape and shouldn't be punished by law?


This is not what this discussion is about. The discussion is about Ironside's conviction that there's no rape in marriage and that forcing a wife to have sex against her will shouldn't be considered rape and raping your wife shouldn't be punished by law. It's those convictions of Ironside that he holds today that we object to.


How is deciding about when to have babies in any way similar to saying it's OK to rape your wife? Am I in "The Twilight Zone" right now?? o_O


It's not about "opinions and traditions." It's about having a basic empathy towards another human being. It's about being a normal human being.

And even if marital rape wasn't illegal in the past, it doesn't mean every husband raped his wife or that somehow rape was the "norm" in marriage. I'm sure that normal, loving, empathic husbands existed even in the past.

Wait, are you saying that rape in marriage was "the common normal" in the past?

....alot more common than today, I would say...only that people back then wouldn't call it that way....since they were honorably married.

I guess not even what counts as rape is the same today as it once was....

Today no women in our civilized western societies is forced to marry if she doesn't want to....

So...seriously what counts as rape in a voluntary marriage between to equal, independent, educated grown ups who a short while back swore that they love each other till eternity?

I frankly doubt that it is a comparable situation to earlier times....

Can we end it here? Thank you!

@Bratwurst Boy, nah, why end here? You haven't answered my question yet...:

Marriage is not a license to commit violence of any kind. Including verbal...

My rule is simple: When my wife says something hurtful, and she does once in a while, my failure to respond in kind tells her that she can rely on me in all situations and that I will not hold it against her in the future.

When a man hits a woman, he shows he is weak mentally and incapable of self-control. That guy will also engage in road rage, police chases, bar brawls, and other acts of supreme stupidity.

Unfortunately, Gen Z women are more attracted to the idiots than the type I just described. At 30, they are "single mothers" with two kids and no prospects for any improvement.

Next: The wall at 35.

Hahaha!

I ran from this thread like a scared rabbit, yesterday.

Nothing to make men more uncomfortable, than this sort of stuff.

-//-

Still... surprised to see you and Ironside come out, with plans to die on the hill of marital rape. OMG.

You guys definitely have a death wish.

....it is umcomfortable in the extreme....as if someone (besides a true nutter) would truly say and mean that raping a woman is okay and even nice!

But to view and judge the historical world with modern eyes leads to exactly that...

Paulina...Marital rape is worse. It's an ultimate betrayal by a man who, instead of protecting her, attacks her at her most vulnerable, when she is practically naked and within easy reach.

On top of that, his assumption that she will not file criminal charges gives the guy a sense of immunity.

No, she is not yours. You don't own her.

It's amazing how the world looks when one has two daughters, four granddaughters, and two guns.

Welcome back, unto the side of the light.

This is much more easy to read, than your typical "all women are turds" business.

I never left. I still hate Karens.

Ironside wrote that in some instances raping your wife is OK. Do you agree?


Yes.

As I wrote the abuse I experienced wasn't that "severe" physically. The worst thing about it was who did it - my family - men who should protect me and love me (in a normal way). That was what shattered my world. An unspeakable betrayal. Unforgivable. I don't view those men as my family anymore. I'm completely detached from them emotionally. I view them more as animals or some kind of creatures that crawled out of hell.

And here we have the misunderstanding:



And as I said....only nutters would say that raping a woman, marital or not, is okay!

In his tradition, and not only his, there is no rape between two loving married people!

You can agree with that or not....but better would be to step back from this topic, as I will do now!

*takes helmet and runs*

He did. I see you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion. It's really getting tiresome and frustrating, BB...


Yes, that's why I called Ironside a psychopath. Duh!


I think you definitely should read the whole discussion before making any more claims about who wrote/meant what.

Really? I don't see it. Help them how? They are single with a child. Paid by the state, i.e, taxpayers, and still birthrates are in decline. I don't see that improvement you're talking about. It seems like a regression.
---

I wasn't thinking that deeply about the state of the world affairs, society, and civlization then, so the answer is probably not.

Of course not, I'm not crazy, I wasn't volunteering any information that might be looked upon as strange or crazy. However, after a few years in my marriage, when I developed more interest in politics and society stuff, I mentioned something of the sort, and she called me an idiot and said not to try it with her or else, which followed with her usual you men rant. However, such an issue never arose between us because she was most accommodating.
There is a lesson for you and Paulina here, not to talk about personal issues; it is meaningless.
---

I think there is some misunderstanding here. I was preoccupied with something else while typing here, so I did not make myself clear.
I advocate for less regulation and less state involvement with family and especially married couple relationships and issues. The thing about so-called marital rape is just an example. It doesn't mean to be read as an endorsement. Clear?
---

And you have another meltdown. If you can't handle it, why do you stay in the kitchen just because you are a woman?
---

Bravo, BB. People in the past have had different attitudes and a set of norms. That's why it is difficult to translate it into today's views.

@Bratwurst Boy, and in case you're too lazy to read the whole discussion then I'll help you out with some fragments - my questions/comments and Ironside answers to my posts:

Paulina: So, according to you, if a wife is "maliciously withholding sex to spite her husband" he should be allowed to rape her and face no legal repercussions?

Ironside: In my opinion in such narrow circumstances, if the husband enforces his rights the state shouldn't be interested in family affairs. Unless an excessive force has been used as he beat her up, then she can complain to the authorities, and they would be obliged to take action after the doctors' opinion confirms excessive use of force.

Paulina: What the hell is this supposed to mean? What is "excessive force" according to you? You shouldn't be forcing your wife to have sex with you by any amount of force!!! WTF is wrong with you????

Ironside: [NO ANSWER]

-------

Paulina: And those things still don't justify rape.

Ironside: Look, either give up this debate or, for the length of this talk, recognize my point of view: there is no rape between husband and wife.

-------

Paulina: If a husband forces his wife to have sex against her will, then it is rape.

Ironside: Today, but I argue it shouldn't be. That rule is relatively recent and has done nothing to improve marriages.

If they get raped they can call the police. And if the husbands try to rape them they can threaten them with calling the police and sending those bastards to prison :)


And she was right.


I'm afraid you made yourself clear enough when you wrote this:

"In my opinion in such narrow circumstances, if the husband enforces his rights the state shouldn't be interested in family affairs."

But in case we "misunderstood" - how do you imagine "husband enforcing his rights" when it comes to sex? Would that include use of physical force/violence?


Calling someone who supports/condones rape in marriage a "psychopath" isn't a "meltdown." It's a normal human reaction.


We're not talking about attitudes of people in the past though. We're talking about your present day attitude towards rape in marriage.

Do you have a therapist? If not, you should think about hiring one.

Give this guy a break.

He didn't rape anyone, and from what I can tell does not play on it.

Direct your anger where it deserves to go.

Ironside on an Internet forum is not your enemy.

I'm not the one who condones rape in marriage.


Why?


How do you know that?


I do. Ironside deserves my anger. And I have an opportunity to express this anger on this forum. Why does me doing that bother you more than Ironside's views on marital rape? 🤔


Why not?

I am actually proud of her for standing up for herself and the sisters.

I only wish American women were more like this, especially when under the assault of transgender freaks.

Like ...Where is NOW when "women" with dicks invade women's private areas, dorms, and sports?

He's a complicated guy, that speaks in a very dense way, and often involves unexpected tangents.... you cannot be confident you understood him correctly.

@Bobko, I'm afraid I did understand him correctly, but I'm always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt - hence my follow up questions and "not giving him a break" to see if I did understand correctly. But he's not answering my questions.

@Paulina

Paulina - why are you always hunting for monsters?

I met people like you - let me tell you - this is not a path that ends in satisfaction.

Why do you not forget about them, and find yourself a guy, and live life - and never visit this godforsaken forum ever again?

Why do you think this is what I'm doing?


Meaning?


Forget about who?


With all due respect, Bobko, but you have a wife, so what are you doing here? :)

Guys, why some of you are so bothered with my presence on this forum? If you don't like what I post or I bore you - can't you simply ignore my posts and scroll away? 🤔

Everyone +loves+ what you post - relax woman.

Why don't you post like Atch or Lenka?

You always find the wildest posts on the website, and then get upset about them.

What magical mechanism prevents Atch or Lenka, from diving so deep down in the trash - to find the posts they can angrily react to?

F*cking relax Paulina. You are doing it to yourself.

Are you worthy?
You don't listen
Second, you don't respect me
Third, you have no qualifications to be my equal. require a high IQ and the ability to debate in a logical manner.
Like - Torq, Bobko, BB, Maf, Atch, Jon, Lenka, Ant, ( if I forgot someone, don't hold it against me) You are not qualified.

Then get off my back.


Because... I'm not Atch... or Lenka... duh! :)


I don't have to look for them - they're right here in your face on the forum. It's not like there's much to comment on PF these days, you know lol


I know, but this is who I am. So I can't always help it. This is my personality type (INFJ - Introverted, Intuitive, Feeling, and Judging) - maybe this will help you understand me a bit:

interios.org.pl/artykul/infj/


I have nothing to listen to, because you're not answering even simple questions.

Are you a donkey?

Perhaps you are. It's always difficult to judge a real person by their PF personas. This forum has a hellish quality of bringing out the worst in people, and I would know.

At times it looks to me like you will hang on a little word, or one sentence, or a joke, and then you will take it and pursue it ruthlessly until you think you have humiliated and defeated your "enemy" entirely. Sure, every now and then we are all guilty of it on this hell hole of a site but it does seem like a bit of a pattern with you, Paulina.


I am more bothered with my presence on this forum. I don't even know how many times I tried to leave for good. But I do enjoy talking to most of you, and I managed to learn something interesting from most of you, so maybe that's why leaving is so difficult.

Ah, well... as long as some strange and ominous force keeps us all - as different from one another as we are - together here on PF, let's try not to hate each other too much.

And I'm out of this thread. It's freaking me out 0_0

Ok girl... you be you.

At least you know what you are doing.

If you do it - *eyes wide open* - then you don't need my help.

Defend yourself.


I already figured out this thread was radioactive:

My natural retardation, magnetically pulled me back.

Why?

There is no why.