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Why do people think that Poles are culturally isolated?


Ant63 11 | 403
22 Dec 2012 #61
I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

It's unsurprising you think like that.

Once you grow up, you might understand that your perception of mine=valid, yours=invalid is not always right.

Please read again. You may understand.

the way you are trying to rationalize Polonophobia.

Apart from HH I haven't seen anything Poloniaphobic yet but he doesn't count really. Obviously you gleaned nothing from my post and you continue on your paranoiac way understanding nothing. Do you consider me Polonophobic? If so why? I say what I see. Nothing more or less. If you consider me polonophobic because of something I have seen and commented on, then we have a problem because you are obviously not liking what you read, which is about Polish people or Poland, so could you be Polonophobic in you own twisted way.

You wish.

Not really but I made the offer so you could explain why you believe I am Polonophobic and I could explain why I believe I am not.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
22 Dec 2012 #62
So whats going wrong? Poland/Poles are not doing a very good job of getting across the positives of Poland.

You should not be asking questions you’re neither capable of understanding nor willing to accept it once given. Reading comments like yours and similar ones made by others of your kind, one gets an impression that “Yawn” is the only word that an intellectual ant might understand ending and summing up the discussion at the same time. The only thing you have managed to do so far in this post of yours is to reinforce this not so flattering of opinions I have about you. Ironically you admit that the image you have of Poland have been presented to the collective of ants like yourself by the powers to be yet not being able to see the clear picture, then again feeble minds are easily manipulated by the moving pictures as God only knows if they are capable of understanding written or spoken word. They effectively managed to build an impenetrable wall for you in the process, translucent perhaps but too blurry for you to see clearly while the physical one was in the process of being dismantled.

By your own admittance that horse and cart image you have is not even something you have seen and experienced for yourself but an image stuck on your mind is from the telly, presented to you and permanently engraved on your mind. Perhaps just perhaps it’s not that “Poles are not doing a very good job of getting across the positives of Poland” but people like you are incapable of absorbing the information that is presented to them. Get rid of all obstacles standing on your path to enlightenment and you’ll have the understanding you seek, I suggest you start with clearing up some of that fog that’s obstructing your view. As long as you think in terms of Eastern Block, subconsciously seeing Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia etc. as one and the same entity this will elude you forever, getting a lesson or two in geography would be extremely helpful. Btw; the Time Warp you seem to be stuck in is not going to advance your understanding either, time for you to step out of the 80’s and catch up with the time the rest of the world is currently in.
Wulkan - | 3,251
22 Dec 2012 #63
berni23:
You are Polish white trash

I wonder how long it took you to find this.

I guess not long, there is plenty of stuff written by yourself that hurts even your own eyes.

Apart from HH I haven't seen anything Poloniaphobic yet

another one who sees things that he wants to see
berni23 7 | 379
22 Dec 2012 #64
some people simply deserve it
Wulkan - | 3,251
22 Dec 2012 #65
you can hardly camper calling somebody a lowlife because of his sick views with what hitler didalthough you in particular prolly could

I understand that English is not your first language but I'm sure you can do better.
berni23 7 | 379
22 Dec 2012 #66
what part didnt you understand?
that your comparison is ridicules?
or that you are not the brightest making such comparisons?
OP zetigrek
22 Dec 2012 #67
Can I ask a moderator to intervene?

-----------------------------

The stupid tv advert saying "Come to Poland and meet the Poles"

Can I see it somewhere? Was it shown during Euro championships?

You cannot blame the people for thinking as they do when the majority of what they hear and see are negatives.

But you can blame media which create such image.
By the way, being married to a Pole and visiting Poland several times, how do you see it, are those media right in your eyes or not?

Ridiculous judgments from the old guard, one recently saying the production of kosher meat is unconstitutional in knee jerk reaction to EU Laws coming into force doesn't help either.

But it's ok when some British guy writes abusive article about Poles? I'm sure that there was no hidden agenda behind the case you described above, it's paranoic to think it was an antisemitic motivation.

I don't often see Polonophobic posts on here except HH's.

Oxon, KingAthelstan, EM_Wave and his other aliases, tygrys, are my first thoughts. There are certainly much more of them.
However I agree that this month is pretty calm.

Apart from HH I haven't seen anything Poloniaphobic yet but he doesn't count really.

Why not?
Ant63 11 | 403
22 Dec 2012 #68
another one who sees things that he wants to see

I only see what is presented to me. Some of its good. Some of its bad. I don't think think if you read the post thoroughly that I have condemned Poles or Poland in any way shape or form. All I have said is that a lot of Polish and Poland people could do better in promoting their country. Its all well and good saying "Come to Poland" in TV adverts but how many people would be remotely interested in going to Poland having the limited knowledge they have? Its an easy answer. The places they know of hold more interest.

You should not be asking questions you’re neither capable of understanding nor willing to accept it once given.

So I answered the question myself with an answer that you should be able to understand is not my opinion. I was just trying to explain why I believe people have the opinion they do.

getting a lesson or two in geography

My geography is fine. I spent 7 months in Romania

that horse and cart image you have

Funnily enough while in Anestesewo last year I saw one or two. The only ones I have seen in Poland.

people like you are incapable of absorbing the information that is presented to them.

Reading your post, I think that describes you. I presented my opinion on why I think people think the way they do and instead of rejecting it with a reasoned argument, you attack me. Would you prefer I lied and said everyone thinks Poland is the land of perfection. What do you think other people think when they happen across this forum and see Poland is Pure, Poland is perfect like some Nazi Aryan mantra? Truth is some of its good and some of its bad. Just like everywhere else except almost nobody knows anything about it other than what they saw on TV donkeys years ago. Whys that then? Few get it across that its a good place. Pawian currently has a Castle thing going on. Lets see more of stuff like that. I have learnt a few things from this forum, for example, Marie Curie is Polish not French as I was led to believe at school. Polonious posts some really interesting stuff occasionally.

Not many take criticism well including me. I was attempting to be constructive and not destructive with that post. The problem is I guess, I'm not one of you because I'm an Angol. Thats fair enough. Unlike people like HH, I do have a good knowledge of Poland. My father was at Auschwitz shortly after the liberation. I grew up in a village with Polish families. From 2005 I employed quite a few Polish ladies in my factory, all of whom were great to work with. All of them carried baggage from Poland in one shape or form. Several have become long term friends. I doubt any will return to Poland. Contrary to whats posted here, although they were proud of Poland's heritage, none of them had a good word about life there.

When I first went to Poland with my current partner in 2010, I was quite taken aback. I had preconceived ideas about the splendor of her mothers apartment. Although it was temperate in the room we slept in, 4 to a bed (two kids), it was -12 in kitchen and I wasn't going to drink anything because the toilet held no appeal. A shower in the morning was an invigorating experience. I booked us into a hotel the next morning. Not because of the conditions, but because to me it was not acceptable to be in bed with children that were not mine. Following the hotel I rented a really nice apartment in a newly restored apartment block for a couple of weeks. Incredibly cheap to me but horrifically expensive to my partner. We had a good time, and I saw both sides of the coin when it comes to wealth in Poland. My partner had friends who lived in one room with communal toilet and no bathroom and couldn't afford medication, and friends who were bankers and solicitors. There seemed to be nothing in between. The have nots had nothing and the haves had a similar if not better lifestyle than their counterparts in the "West". I was also struck by the amount of homeless on the street in Poznan including one black guy in that incredible cold. I expected more from Poland. Instead I was left a bit disappointed. We were back several times before the weather warmed up, but when it did, its like Poland suddenly comes alive. Sitting in Stary Rynek with a meal and a beer, its vibrant with colour and people but you can't help thinking that the people here are the haves. Theres no way a lot of my partners friends could afford to eat here. In fact I doubt they eat properly at all.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of Poles that post here are in the haves bracket and know nothing of the have nots experience of life in Poland.
Wulkan - | 3,251
22 Dec 2012 #69
I had preconceived ideas about the splendor of her mothers apartment. Although it was temperate in the room we slept in, 4 to a bed (two kids), it was -12 in kitchen and I wasn't going to drink anything because the toilet held no appeal. A shower in the morning was an invigorating experience. I booked us into a hotel the next morning.

wow lmao, and now tell us what your partner's (i dont know why you refer to your girl friend like that - strange) crazy family has to do with Poland or polish culture? xD
TommyG 1 | 361
22 Dec 2012 #70
I would hazard a guess that the majority of Poles that post here are in the haves bracket and know nothing of the have nots experience of life in Poland.

Yawn...

My geography is fine. I spent 7 months in Romania

What do you want? A medal?

but how many people would be remotely interested in going to Poland having the limited knowledge they have?

A lot of people, including yourself. Don't presume that everyone is as ignorant as you are about this country.
Some of us came to Poland with an open mind and actually prefer life here and don't feel the need to b*tch about everything...

I was also struck by the amount of homeless on the street in Poznan including one black guy in that incredible cold. I expected more from Poland.

Homeless people are everywhere. Have you never been to London, Birmingham or New York? I would have expected a more intelligent comment from you...

There isn't anything wrong with Polish culture. Unfortunately, a tourist such as yourself wouldn't see that in the 5 minutes that you spent here...
OP zetigrek
22 Dec 2012 #71
Poland is perfect

I think it's another common misunderstanding on this forum. Roughly it looks like that:

- a Foreigner: Poland sucks!

- a Pole: Not true, Poland is not so bad.

- a Foreigner: Why do you think Poland is perfect?

...as you see total mis-communication (I'm not sure if such word exists but it surely conveys the core of the problem)
Ant63 11 | 403
22 Dec 2012 #72
Can I see it somewhere? Was it shown during Euro championships?

It was shown on TV here during and before the Euro. I have no idea where to find it.
I say these things a little tongue in cheek because I know how it looks to people like HH. I have a sense of humor that is possibly difficult to understand for foreigners. For example I call the estate where I live "The Safari Park" because we have an example of almost every nationality. If you use certain voice tones it cannot be construed as offensive and most foreigners I have said this to have smiled after I've explained. It's funny using a word like foreigners because thats really not how I think it s just a word to convey context.

But you can blame media which create such image.

I think you are wrong with this. Lets take the Daily Mail for example. They write sensational stories based on fact. If there was no fact they couldn't do it. If a Polish man robs and beats an old lady, it is worthy of reporting and if an englishman did the same it is equally worthy and I assure you it would be equally reported. There have been some terrible crimes committed by Poles in the UK which helps explain why there is so much negative press in the UK. I know I am missing your point here but I am going this way to emphasize the fact, what people see is what they believe. We just don't see any positive news from Poland or Polish people here. Sorry thats unfair there is a little if you look for it.

By the way, being married to a Pole and visiting Poland several times, how do you see it, are those media right in your eyes or not?

I'm not married shes going through a 3 year divorce. Unheard of in England. To the point, I don't think your interpretation of that article is good although I only listened to half of it. Interpretation is consistently an issue with Polish and English. When I have documents translated for court in Poland, I must first make sure the translator understands the document or we could be in deep do do. Now I will say how I see it and be attacked by the usual. I think Poland has a good way to go before it catches up with its Western counterparts. Dive into the trench :-). Its certainly not a backwater and the message I was getting from the obviously very wealthy woman was that it wasn't what she or her friends imagined. If it came to it, I would have no qualms about living in Poland. In 2011 I spent the best part of six months there.

But it's ok when some British guy writes abusive article about Poles? I'm sure that there was no hidden agenda behind the case you described above, it's paranoic to think it was an antisemitic motivation.

Please show me an abusive article. I would be interested to see this. I honestly don't believe that it was deliberately antisemitic. What it looks more like to me is that the judges do not like the loss of authority and were making a statement to Tusk. After all it was a pointless manouver on their part as it was going to be overridden anyway. It was a protest. Why waste their time. I'm sure you can see how it can look to Kosher meat eaters. Every nation within Europe needs to promote understanding and the judges made faux pas with this.

However I agree that this month is pretty calm.

Its like bear baiting. Some are easily provoked.

Why not?

Sometimes I agree with HH but he has the unfortunate ability to go too far. He is a vinyl record with a scratch that keeps repeating itself. I understand his annoyance and a lot of people in the UK feel the same, but its not going to change anything. He problably voted Tony Blair in and he will most likely vote Labour in again so we will get more of the same. Sometimes I feel embarrassed when I read his posts.
OP zetigrek
22 Dec 2012 #73
Please show me an abusive article. I would be interested to see this.

It was in the link in Polonius' thread "Poles herded Jews into death camps?". I thought you refered to it. Unfortunately if you haven't read the article yet you won't have a chance because as I've just checked it, obviously it had been removed. Tha author called there Poles "low life bastards" and that Joseph Stalin "was the only man who knew how to treat the Poles". As you see you missed a lot :)

They write sensational stories based on fact. If there was no fact they couldn't do it.

It's not always true if we talk about tabloits.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #74
Ant63:
I would hazard a guess that the majority of Poles that post here are in the haves bracket and know nothing of the have nots experience of life in Poland.

Yawn...

Do you have much of an idea of how life is like for the 'have nots' in Poland?
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #75
stop being ignorant, Poland is not Iraq or Russia where there is such a big gap between haves and have nots.
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #76
wow lmao, and now tell us what your partner's (i dont know why you refer to your girl friend like that - strange)

This how one refers to ones girlfriend if your not young and not married.

crazy family has to do with Poland or polish culture? xD

Possibly because they are Polish and live in Poland.

Do you have much of an idea of how life is like for the 'have nots' in Poland?

No he doesn't and you can see why he failed in England.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #77
stop being ignorant, Poland is not Iraq or Russia where there is such a big gap between haves and have nots.

Have you been to Poland?
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #78
Sometimes I agree with HH but he has the unfortunate ability to go too far. He is a vinyl record with a scratch that keeps repeating itself. I understand his annoyance and a lot of people in the UK feel the same, but its not going to change anything. He problably voted Tony Blair in and he will most likely vote Labour in again so we will get more of the same. Sometimes I feel embarrassed when I read his posts.

now you went beyond yourself, join HH's team and cry together about your misrable fate :/

This how one refers to ones girlfriend if your not young and not married.

or you're gay and you want to hide the partners gender. I have old English friends above 40 and they have no problems calling their boyfriends, girlfriends...

Possibly because they are Polish and live in Poland.

There is an English cleaner where I work who talks to himself, you think talking to yourself is an English culture or he's just retarded, figure

Have you been to Poland?

go have sleep, when you wake up have a large coffe and maybe then come back here
David_18 68 | 982
23 Dec 2012 #79
Gosh i just love some of the insecurity people have about themselfs and their country.. The chinese are even worse! I was on a dinner with a couple of friends and their chinese friends and all their chinese friends were asking me was what i thought about the chinese people and their great country. It got pretty annoying at the end as you can imagine.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #80
go have sleep, when you wake up have a large coffe and maybe then come back here

Please explain why you feel forced to go on the attack when asked a simple question.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #81
Do you consider me Polonophobic?

Either that or you're simply a very... well, "uncool" individual in general.

From 2005 I employed quite a few Polish ladies in my factory, all of whom were great to work with.

Wow, a factory owner you :)))

Although it was temperate in the room we slept in, 4 to a bed (two kids), it was -12 in kitchen and I wasn't going to drink anything because the toilet held no appeal.

Following the hotel I rented a really nice apartment in a newly restored apartment block for a couple of weeks. Incredibly cheap to me but horrifically expensive to my partner.

Incredibly cheap to you ? You prince, you :))))

My partner had friends who lived in one room with communal toilet and no bathroom and couldn't afford medication, and friends who were bankers and solicitors. There seemed to be nothing in between. The have nots had nothing and the haves had a similar if not better lifestyle than their counterparts in the "West".

Fascinating. Ever heard about Gini index ? I bet you didn't, go learn and check the data.

I was also struck by the amount of homeless on the street in Poznan including one black guy in that incredible cold. I expected more from Poland. Instead I was left a bit disappointed.

Fecking racists, a black homeless guy, how dare they :))?

There have been some terrible crimes committed by Poles in the UK which helps explain why there is so much negative press in the UK.

:))) Poles in the UK are more often victimes of terrible crimes than their preparators, they are 2-3 less likely to commit a crime than a typical pink person. There are statistics on that.

We just don't see any positive news from Poland or Polish people here.

I'm not surprised you don't :))

Overall, It looks like you think neagtive opinion pinks are having about Poles is justified because:
1. They commit crimes, don't shave their legs bla bla...
2. They are damn poor in Poland, you expected more, so you are disappointed.

Well, I think 1. could be easily proved wrong with stats on crime etc. but I'm very interested in 2. How does it work really ? Because it's the 1st time I see someone trying to justify racism that way. OK Poland is a feckin poor place... I know it very well... so... ? I mean, there are millions of people from India or Pakistan in the UK... and you know, talking about closets, a large part of +1 billion Indians have no access to any toilet... so when you see an Indian in the UK, do you think "what a fecker, I bet his cousine in India shyt in the woods or straight into river". Is it how it works ? Please explain.

Do you have much of an idea of how life is like for the 'have nots' in Poland?

I do.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #82
Please explain why you feel forced to go on the attack when asked a simple question.

I was not attacking you, only gave you a practical advice
Ant63 11 | 403
23 Dec 2012 #83
Either that or you're simply a very... well, "uncool" individual in general.

Cool was in the 60's

Wow, a factory owner you :)))

Read. Past tense.

Incredibly cheap to you ? You prince, you :))))

Relative to the UK is was cheap 1800 zlt compared to a minimum of £1000 in the UK.

Fascinating. Ever heard about Gini index ? I bet you didn't, go learn and check the data.

Life on the ground is not comparable to the statistics.

Fecking racists, a black homeless guy, how dare they :))?

Did I suggest this was racist. I pointed it out because it was the only black guy I saw in Poznan at that time. He was really interesting as he spoke Polish, French and English. Shows you if things go tits up in Poland you are not far from the street.

Poles in the UK are more often victimes of terrible crimes than their preparators

You are kidding me aren't you? Just type in Polish in the BBC news web site search box and see for yourself. It should keep you busy for a while. Or maybe you should visit our local park on a Sunday when the community service boys and girls are doing their time. Lets see what the percentages are on the ground. They have even had to recruit Polish policeman round my way.

To balance this, since 2005 I have had one employee who was pushed to the ground by two 12/13 year old boys and racially abused. She was too frightened to report this to the Police as she believed the Police would do nothing. It was reported and it was resolved. My partners son was punched by another boy at school because he was Polish. It was a very humiliating experience for the other boys parents and it has not been repeated.

Personally I have had two confrontations with jealous male Poles. A couple of days after moving in with my partner I had two dopes waiting outside my factory to tell me that she is Polish and it would be advisable for me to move on. They weren't that polite of course. Another cretin physically attacked me outside my house over the same thing. All water off a ducks back to me.

pink person

Please define "Pink Person". I'm not sure I understand this.

1. They commit crimes, don't shave their legs bla bla...

What I said is Poles/Poland are not doing very well at getting the good points over. It is not often you hear a Pole expunging the glories of Poland in the UK. Quite often you will hear this and that is better in the UK. Reported crime that involves the Polish community only goes to re-enforce a perception that Poles are bad in general which of course is not true.

2. They are damn poor in Poland, you expected more

I did expect more but not in the context you are thinking. I didn't get that over very well because there are so many tangents I could go off on with this conversation. I touched on this elsewhere. I'm not sure where you are in Poland but I imagine (but do not know) that each city is fairly similar with its building stock. So in Poznan you have these huge, beautiful buildings, that are sadly in a terrible state of repair. Some covered with nets to stop masonry falling on peoples heads. Its tragic to see this kind of Heritage neglect. Quite a few apartments that I visited in buildings in a better state of repair on the exterior looked untouched on the inside since the 50's. Then you walk a 100m down the road and there is a modern atrocity. Looks great now but in 20 years it will look dated. Happened here in the 60's and early 70's. Just behind the Sheraton in Poznan is a perfect example of what can be done with old buildings. In 2010 when I visited they had just started restoring it. By mid 2011 it was looking good. I would imagine its finished now and will be something people can admire for a long time to come.

A lot of people are poor in Poland. You know that.

Where is the racism Greg? I know you want there to be, but there isn't any is there.

I was not attacking you, only gave you a practical advice

You were being patronising believing yourself to be superior when in fact you had lost. It's a very feminine trait.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #84
I was not attacking you, only gave you a practical advice

You were making a personal attack and not contributing to any kind of debate.

Why do you feel the need to react in this manner?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #85
Relative to the UK is was cheap 1800 zlt compared to a minimum of £1000 in the UK.

OK... and ?

Life on the ground is not comparable to the statistics.

OK, so you have no clue what GINI index is, not surprising really :))) It is an indocator presenting income inequality and for Poland its value is quite similar to that of UK or average in the EU, people in Poland are simply poorer in general, so our poor are poorer than your poor, quite logical, isn't it ? So please point out what is your problem with poverty in Poland ? I thought you attack it from far left "they don't care about their poor" position. If that's a case, you are simply wrong.

Shows you if things go tits up in Poland you are not far from the street.

All Poles know it much better than you... and... ?

You are kidding me aren't you?

No I'm not :))))

Just type in Polish in the BBC news web site search box and see for yourself.

Fascinating that you present anti-Polish bias of your media as some kind of evidence that there's something wrong with Poles :)) Why don't you check the statistics your police is collecting on crimes commited by Poles and compare it to the number of Poles in the UK and then do the same for the British population/number of crimes they commit ? It should take no more than few minutes and you would ultimately prove that Poles commit so many terrible crimes :))) Just go for it :))

I did expect more but not in the context you are thinking.

So in which context ? You still haven't made that clear.

So in Poznan you have these huge, beautiful buildings, that are sadly in a terrible state of repair. Some covered with nets to stop masonry falling on peoples heads. Its tragic to see this kind of Heritage neglect. Quite a few apartments that I visited in buildings in a better state of repair on the exterior looked untouched on the inside since the 50's.

Ok so we have cold kitchens, stinking closets and now neglected buildings... yes... and... ?

A lot of people are poor in Poland. You know that.

Yes, I know it much better than you... And what the hell is your point I'm asking.

You keep rising 2 issues.

1. Poles commit terrible crimes -> which is not really true when you compare it with other nationalities.
2. Poles are poor -> yes, this is true... and ?? As I said before, I wonder what you think about Inidans or Pakistanis then as majority of them are far poorer than typical Poles.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #86
It's a very feminine trait.

Thank you mr. Factory owner Psychologist xD

You were making a personal attack and not contributing to any kind of debate.

Looks like you are one of those people who need to get explained everything.

You can easly check if I have ever been to Poland by reading some of my previous posts, the reason why you didn't could be that you was tired and not thinking clearly to have that idea, but now we have another day and yet you are still as stuped as you was yeasterday...

Go and do something useful since internet forum's debates are not your thing.
ifor bach 11 | 152
23 Dec 2012 #87
Why do you imagine you are so incredibly interesting as a poster that I would want to read your previous posts?

To be honest, you give the impression of being an ill-mannered simpleton.

I had wanted to debate, but you aren't capable of doing so. Goodbye.

So please point out what is your problem with poverty in Poland ? I thought you attack it from far left "they don't care about their poor" position. If that's a case, you are simply wrong.

Have you ever been to Stołczyn or Skolwin near Szczecin?

I can post a video if you are interested.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #88
Have you ever been to Stołczyn or Skolwin near Szczecin?I can post a video if you are interested.

what that video would be proving? that in Poland some areas are poorer then the others? I have seen videos of poor areas in India, Bangladesh, Somalia, Philippines, Romania... do you think video of some poor vilage in Poland would impress anybody? or prove anything?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
23 Dec 2012 #89
Have you ever been to Stołczyn or Skolwin near Szczecin?

Surprise, surprise, I know thrse places :)) And your point is ? Please explain.
Wulkan - | 3,251
23 Dec 2012 #90
And your point is ? Please explain.

I second that


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