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Will traffic fines law like in Finland make Polish roads safer?


pigsy 7 | 305
15 Mar 2015 #1
Traffic fines like in Finland where they are according to ones income make polish roads safer?here is the example of traffic fines in Finland...

autoblog.com/2015/03/13/finland-charges-wealthy-speeder-103-000-in-fines/
Monitor 14 | 1,820
15 Mar 2015 #2
I think they would, but I guess there would be logistic difficulties of getting information how much a person owns. But there will be big raise of penalties for speeding in this year and new fines will be very painful, because in relation to average earnings are few times higher than for example in Germany: Speeding fines in Poland
Roger5 1 | 1,458
15 Mar 2015 #3
If it could be made to work properly, this would be a great idea. The last time I got fined it was 200PLN. The points were more of a worry than the cash I had to pay. I just shrugged and made the transfer, but for a guy on minimum wage with kids to feed a 200 fine would have hurt, and not just him. If they'd fined me a couple of thousand, I'd have driven like a nun for a year.
johnny reb 23 | 4,572
15 Mar 2015 #4
The points were more of a worry than the cash

I agree with that Roger.
Does it work in Poland like it does in America where every time you get a traffic fine
your car insurance (which is mandatory) increases also.
After so many points on your drivers license you can't get regular insurance so you
are forced to join an insurance pool for bad drivers, if your license doesn't get revoked all together.
The cost there can be as high as $2500 a year for just the basic !
OP pigsy 7 | 305
15 Mar 2015 #5
America where every time you get a traffic fine

In America usually when you go to court one can negotiate/plea bargain with the prosecutor to pay more fine for a non moving violation thus get no points and hence no insurance premium rise.Its very common in the local courts until its some serious offense,and the township makes money then the state or the insurance companies.

And I guess you have been out of America a long time as insurance companies are advertising openly for accident forgiveness openly to get business now.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
15 Mar 2015 #6
Same thread as the other.

People here need to suffer the consequences of their criminal speed.

If this was America they couldn't speed as fast as the bullet from my gun. Fines are not good enough for people who dangerously speed where children are (it's called towns and villages FFS!!!). Those dickheads deserve prison food.
Kamaz
16 Mar 2015 #7
I think it is going to be very hard to make people slow down....it must be something in the culture......I live in a village, drive slowly most of the time, rarely exceed 70kph cruise at 60kph on main roads and crawl through the villages at 40kph or less.....and you know, I get overtaken by old men and girls doing 80-90kph on winding roads with blind bends through the village at least every time I go out..even as the children ar walking home from school along the side of the road....this is not like UK with a hardcore of young men in blinged-up cars driving fast, this is everyone....!!!! cutting corners is worse, just yesterday had a car come round a bend, middle aged woman driving...she was halfway across my side of the road.....I bumped along the verge to pass her or she would have hit me!!! nope...she would have cursed the skies if fined and swore that god was not smiling on her that day and that it was not her fault, so she would go out and do the same thing tomorrow....and the day after that....and on and on. Oh and why do adults drive through puddles here and soak the children walking at the side of the road?? they do it to adults too. I always move to the middle of the road away from the puddles.....in fact I,m sure I always have, I learned to drive in Germany and it was actually illegal to splash someone there.
OP pigsy 7 | 305
16 Mar 2015 #8
Infact they do the same in states esp in big cities.Everyone is driving at 80MPH in a 65MPH zone till they are not driving erratically(changing lanes very often) cops usually overlook unless they have a qutoa to complete at the end of the month/quarter/year.

LOL about splashing people you should see the NY drivers,in jersey we call them Bennies by the shore.
To add in my town a trafficlight radar was to be taken off as a promise by the mayor elect as his election agenda.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Mar 2015 #9
rarely exceed 70kph cruise at 60kph on main roads

That makes you quite a danger to the traffic and it's participants.

There should be fines for both, people who excessively go over the speed limit and people who are a nuisance to traffic by driving too slow.

If the speed limit on a main road between towns / villages is 100, that also means that the road is deemed as safe to travel on it at 100kph. By driving 70kph, you are not only slowing down the flow of traffic, you are also provoking unnecessary takeover maneuvers. Unnecessary because if you would adjust to the traffic flow, other drivers would not have to overtake you.

I learned to drive in Germany

That is quite surprising for me because adjusting to the flow of traffic is something that works very well in Germany. In fact, Germany is one the few countries in which the police will pull you over for driving too slow.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,849
16 Mar 2015 #10
If the speed limit on a main road between towns / villages is 100, that also means that the road is deemed as safe to travel on it at 100kph. By driving 70kph, you are not only s

that is not entirely true, there are some v narrow lanes around here which are marked at the national speed limit, eg 60 mph, and it would be insane to go over 30.
xerxes2
16 Mar 2015 #11
That makes you quite a danger to the traffic and it's participants. By driving 70kph, you are not only slowing down the flow of traffic, you are also provoking unnecessary takeover maneuvers. Unnecessary because if you would adjust to the traffic flow, other drivers would not have to overtake you.

This is a typical riposte from a Polish person who is trying to justify the insane overtaking manoeuvres and their reckless driving.
Why is someone a danger when driving a bit slower? They're no danger to anyone. Maybe a slight inconvenience. The people who are a danger are the psychotic overtakers who can't wait 2 minutes behind someone. They're the ones who kill and maim.

'The worst is country for road deaths in the EU is Poland, where 11 people are killed in cars per billion kilometers travelled, compared with only around 2 in Britain, the Netherlands and Switzerland, according to the ETSC.'

BTW - in addition, the bad roads don't kill people the people behind the wheel do.

Adjust your driving to the environment, keep safe and under the speed limit, don't overtake where it's illegal.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Mar 2015 #12
there are some v narrow lanes

Which is why i wrote

on a main road between towns / villages

Regardless of what one might think of the roads in Poland, the main roads in most parts of the country are well constructed and suitable for speed of 100 kph, motorways even more.

I am not talking about some back roads or narrow lanes but the main roads which "Kamaz" referred to in post 7 of this thread.

There is only one motorway in Poland on which i would not recommend anything faster than 50kph which is the A18 between the German border town Forst and Legnica leading up to the A4 towards Wroclaw. Going west is not a problem, that part has been reconstructed. Coming from Germany however and going East, you will find yourself on a stretch of motorway that since it was built as the "Reichsautobahn" by the Nazis, has never seen any major work done on it.

This is a typical riposte from a Polish person

That is quite interesting seeing that I am not even Polish :)
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
16 Mar 2015 #13
In fact, Germany is one the few countries in which the police will pull you over for driving too slow.

Yes - and you well know that is the law on some motorways or trunk roads only. We other posters are talking about towns and villages - and you are advocating 100 km an hour on Polish country roads.

We all know the statistics. Now behave yourself and refrain from posting nonsense young man - or would you only change your tune when some criminal hit your loved ones?

In fact - they don't have to hit anyone. It's the intimidation of dangerous speeding that needs stamping out - just as I wouldn't call you a ******* **** from behind a keyboard, I wouldn't threaten you from behind the wheel of a car either.

In my younger days someone did the second when my brother was getting out of my car. H caught up with him in at the shops and gave him something to concentrate his mind.

I doubt the new "laws" will go far enough and stupid apologist posts like yours' illustrate that opinion.

I think it is going to be very hard to make people slow down...

Now there's a good post.
johnny reb 23 | 4,572
16 Mar 2015 #14
In America usually when you go to court one can negotiate/plea bargain with the prosecutor to pay more fine for a non moving violation

I thought we were talking about MOVING violations (speeding) here to keep the roads safer in Poland.
And that is not true where I live, very very seldom is there room for negotiations on traffic fines.
If Finland sets fines according to income, does everyone still get the same amount of points ?
Like Roger stated, the fine was secondary, it's the points that get expensive.
Your insurance increases every time you get points for the following three years for everyone.
When you get enough points your drivers license gets terminated.
It's called forcing people to become RESPONSIBLE & ACCOUNTABLE no matter what your income is.
A person with a big income is just as likely to kill someone by breaking the law as a poor person.
Points is what levels that out to get ALL bad drivers off the road.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Mar 2015 #15
and stupid apologist posts

I am not trying to apologize for anything. Perhaps you need to start reading and understanding better.

We other posters are talking about towns and villages

Kamaz has clearly stated in post 7 that in towns and villages he never exceeds 40kph. On MAIN roads, and with that it would seem he means the roads that connect villages and towns, i.e. the country roads / national roads / trunk roads, he never exceeds 70kph. On these roads the speed limit is usually 90 or 100 kph, meaning that if he drives at 70 kph he is significantly slower than most of the traffic participants. On a busy day, this kind of driving would lead to congestions and unnecessary takeover maneuvers.

While Kamaz, and as it seems you too, thinks that driving slow is safe, it does nothing but provoke dangerous takeover maneuvers for which there would be no reason if he would simply adjust to the flow of traffic.

I am not talking about wreckless driving. I am talking about common sense and simply adjusting to one's surroundings.

If you don't think that driving too slow is a danger to traffic, you may want to start considering handing in your license and use public transport.
OP pigsy 7 | 305
16 Mar 2015 #16
I thought we were talking about MOVING violations

So was I,most non lethal moving voilations are reduced to non moving voilations or local ordinances voilations by the local municipalities for higher finesprovided you plead not guilty and negotiate with the prosecutor,until in idiotic peoples cases who plead guilty pay fines and get points making insurance rates high.

Maybe the town you live is an senior town where the township dont need money to fund schools.BTW there are so many insurances also are advertrising accident forgiveness.
Kamaz
16 Mar 2015 #17
I am quietly chuckling away here and thinking JollyRomek must see a whole different world to the one I see? I think he has never heard of or seen an Ursus?? or perhaps a Wladimirek?? or even a Zetor.....or maybe a Horse and Woz? around here there are many, many and I struggle to remember when I saw a horse and woz doing 100kph.......some of these little tractors can haul it up to around 25kph on a good day.....maybe Romek wants to pass a law that they should all be capable of at least 100kph..In case they cause holdups which lead to accidents?....city boys ?????? wake up and smell the dung !!! it's beautiful. Who was that guy who used to post that he drove better after drinking a litre of Wodka or spiritus...is he still around?? used to make me laugh so much!
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
16 Mar 2015 #18
Points is what levels that out to get ALL bad drivers off the road.

Not in Poland. In the UK it's 3 strikes (12 points). Another offence within 12 months and that's you done.

In Poland it's 24 points. The most I ever accumulated was 10, and that was for really taking the ****.

Points in Poland are a very bad (and dangerously lenient) joke

If you don't think that driving too slow is a danger to traffic, you may want to start considering handing in your license and use public transport.

Yes, of course it is vital to keep up with the traffic flow - but not when that traffic is driving too fast for the conditions or breaking the 40 km speed limit in towns and villages.

I have NO idea why the inhabitants don't protest more often and take matters into their own hands, by blockading the streets to keep their kids safe from idiot speedsters. Too lazy to demand action too often.........that's the damage that communism wraught :(
JollyRomek 7 | 481
16 Mar 2015 #19
around here there are many, many and I struggle to remember when I saw a horse and woz doing 100kph

You did not mention small and narrow lanes with horses and cows in post 7 when you spoke about doing 70kph on "main roads".
Kamaz
17 Mar 2015 #20
Romek..I hope you realise this was a bit of fun?.......I hope you are smiling now? no cows on the road, they are too valuable and I will say that a new danger is on even these back country roads (yes even the main roads), and that is these lycra wearing cyclists that insist on riding alongside each other!!! Thinking now in the villages.....suicidal dogs are big danger......I,m a dog lover so I do try to avoid them.
Polsyr 6 | 769
20 Mar 2015 #21
In my opinion, some drivers speed or drive dangerously thinking that they are so entitled or privileged, because they believe that they are smarter, richer or generally more important than the rest of the world. A carryover mentality from communism I would say.

The fact that some police officers accept bribes does not help and specifically works to reinforce this mentality.

Fines proportionate to one's income sounds like a smart idea, if actually enforced.

As usual, politicians like to make big statements and laws that look impressive on the surface, but do not address the actual problem. Instead of focusing on punishing offenders, which is the result of the problem, I think we need to focus on the source of the problem instead, with better driver education, police training and improved infrastructure.


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