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Can somebody explain ZUS to me?


newhere
10 Jun 2014  #1
I realize I'm new, but can somebody explain exactly or even briefly what ZUS is and why people think that the system is collapsing? I ask because I don't understand. Please enlighten me. Thanks.
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #2
It's like National Insurance in the UK. You pay a percentage of your wage and it covers costs of hospitals, government pension, prescription subsidies, etc. I believe people think it's falling apart because, with better healthcare and better standard of life, the population is growing older which meants there are more people out of work needing pensions and helthcare while people in work are paying for that people are not happy about it. Plus, because you can opt out of paying ZUS, it means that there are less funds now available. I have always opted in, both in case of emergencies and also I think it's a huge reflection of your country's character how you treat the weakest in society.
OP newhere
10 Jun 2014  #3
I understand why some people are frustrated. Because for example people employed in the military or police retire the earliest. Like 35 if I'm not wrong? And people who pay for ZUS will have money directed to these able-bodied retirees. Is that right?
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #4
They have the choice to retire at that age, due to the physicality of the job (which can vary depending on rank and position). However, with the state pension being so low, it's rare you will find a 35 year old retiree in Poland, most will stay in their post (increase the pension) or find other work. You don't want to be 35 and stuck in the house all day...
OP newhere
10 Jun 2014  #5
Okay. So now we know that the system is broke or is going to be broken. What is the government doing about this?
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #6
Pretty much the same as the UK does with NI, keep raising the rates and ignoring the fact that the system doesn't work.
jon357 63 | 14,076
10 Jun 2014  #7
Reforming it into something more viable would be such a massive task that no government wants to face it.
OP newhere
10 Jun 2014  #8
So better to leave ZUS rotting away, than to fix it ? Somebody has to do something and start somewhere.
Lenka 2 | 1,155
10 Jun 2014  #9
1-A cop that retires at 35 would get real peanuts- not a graduate from Uni so started from the real bottom, before he got promoted...
2- Cops and soldiers are NOT paid by the ZUS.
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #10
Reforming it into something more viable would be such a massive task that no government wants to face it.

BOOM! There's a fact right there.

No chance any country with a welfare system is going to reform it. You'd lose half the vote by people saying that now the government is being cruel without saving money to the pulic (because it wouldn't) and the other half would say you are giving the whole public penny to those who "don't deserve it". They are stuck in a catch 22.
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
11 Jun 2014  #11
It's like National Insurance in the UK. You pay a percentage of your wage

Wrong. No you don't. It's not like NIS at all.

For a start, as Harry rightly states on another thread, it is there solely to provide work for thousands of housewives in middle Poland towns, which ceased to function as economies when the Jewish populations were butchered.

Next, you don't pay a percentage of your earnings, if for example, you run a Spolka C.

Instead the communist bastards rob you blind.

Of course it's all immaterial to me because those n'er do wells won't ever again be seeing another zloty of my hard earned. And that is a fact.
simpix 6 | 27
11 Jun 2014  #12
To Cardno 85........
Out of curiosity, how is one able to opt out of paying ZUS?
Either it is deducted directly from wages by an employer or if self employed, it must be paid monthly...
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
12 Jun 2014  #13
If it's PAYE - ie You are paid a salary - you can't. AFAIK I am self employed so am ignorant of all else.

Ask Harry et al who are above me in intellect and knowledge.

If it's the unjust tax against private enterprise - like in my situation - then your partner - who also runs private enterprise under the same type of business - can "employ" one entity - you.

Of course - Poles don't know the meaning of civil disobedience anymore and the majority are busy getting on and don't give a **** about anybody else.

So I kindly suggest you try to do the same.
cms 9 | 1,272
12 Jun 2014  #14
So the people who do pay ZUS dont give a damn about anyone else ? Thats a weird logic

Its obviusly a flawed system but for millions of Poles its the only welfare net that they have.
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
12 Jun 2014  #15
So the people who do pay ZUS dont give a damn about anyone else ? Thats a weird logic

But do the people do anything about it - by a programme of civil disobedience?

Do they 'eck. Obviously ZUS only burns a relatively small percentage. Badly

Work it out for yourself - if you are running a C.S. you pay 1,300 zl a month (at the last count) no matter what your income.

If you don't earn, you still pay.

You were saying something about logic?
Harry
12 Jun 2014  #16
Out of curiosity, how is one able to opt out of paying ZUS?

If you're employed on an umowa o dzielo basis, there is no obligation to pay ZUS. I posted the number of the article in the relevant law a few months ago but a mod binned that post, and it's certainly against the rules here to repost binned material.

Work it out for yourself - if you are running a C.S. you pay 1,300 zl a month (at the last count) no matter what your income.

So run a dzialalnosc gospodarcza and pay 799. I do.

If you don't earn, you still pay.

If they said to you "You can't have any money this month because we don't have any", would you be fine with that? No? So why should it be OK when the roles are reversed?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
12 Jun 2014  #17
I wonder how many one-person companies give up because of this. I heard a figure of 50000 a couple of years ago. Someone close to me had a bad couple of months last year and found it very tough to find 800PLN with almost nothing coming in. In the end they suspended their business for a while.
cms 9 | 1,272
12 Jun 2014  #18
But do the people do anything about it - by a programme of civil disobedience?

I think the Poles save their civil disobedience for big things, like being the first people in the world to overthrow a communist state.

Its impossible to make taxes that are fair and at the right level for everyone and even 799 sounds a bit steep, but this is a democracy - you can't just not pay a tax if you don't like it.
Harry
12 Jun 2014  #19
In the end they suspended their business for a while.

I know a few teachers who do that during the summer and then invoice whatever clients they worked for over the summer in September when the work picks up again.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
12 Jun 2014  #20
And if they then sign on for benefits, they become a net burden. It doesn't even begin to make sense. I opened a bottle of bubbly when I finally got a staff job at a uni, which means I have to pay just a couple of hundred to keep my one-man-band running, but I feel for all those whose earnings are variable.
Harry
12 Jun 2014  #21
And if they then sign on for benefits, they become a net burden.

They don't (as far as I know).
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
12 Jun 2014  #22
So run a dzialalnosc gospodarcza and pay 799. I do.

I issue bills on my wife's S.C. All above board. No extra ZUS for her to pay, as she can issue bills for one other.

I have paid ZUS for 20 years, and unlike NIS it is an unfair tax - so I have removed my favour. As simple as that. Carry on paying 799 Zl Harry if you have no option - but those bandits will never see another zloty of mine.
Lenka 2 | 1,155
12 Jun 2014  #23
ZUS is a big payment and I understand that it can be a strain on the employers and one man companies but there is one thing- if you don't want to pay ZUS, cool, but don't moan after that you don't have a pension. It's like with our stars that never paid ZUS and now complain they have 500 zl of pension.
simpix 6 | 27
12 Jun 2014  #24
What's the difference between dzialalnosc gospodarcza and CS?

I have worked enough years in the UK to receive a full UK pension. Is there any way to not pay ZUS if I have no wish to to receive

a) a Polish pension
b) Polish welfare benefits
Medical cover is a different situation but I can get private medical cover.
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
12 Jun 2014  #25
Depends what you are billing for.
simpix 6 | 27
12 Jun 2014  #26
Teaching services
Dougpol1 28 | 2,678
13 Jun 2014  #27
Umowa o dzieło - bill for a specific task......
Lenka 2 | 1,155
13 Jun 2014  #28
More like umowa zlecenie. I never heard of a teacher working on umowa o dzieło.
Harry
13 Jun 2014  #29
I spent about 12 years working on umowa o dzieło as a teacher; it's the norm for EFL in Poland.
Lenka 2 | 1,155
13 Jun 2014  #30
Really? Weird since (as explained to me recently by PIP worker, the worker will be sewing shirts for some time)
umowa zlecenie- the worker is to make certain things the best he can and usually not (example given to me- sewing shirts)
umowa o dzieło- the worker is paid for a precise thing he does "dzieło" (example- 10 shirts, he is paid for the shirts, not the time he spends on it e.t.c)

But well, I'm not a lawyer.


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