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Poland's visit visa refused; "intention to leave the country is not determined".



Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
8 May 2017  #1

Arsalan Z from Pakistan , i know my wife since 2012 and we decided to marry in 2016 in Pakistan , recently i applied for visit visa from pakistan but they refused my application " intention to leave the country is not determined" how can we overcome this objection , we are not looking to settle down in Poland as i am settled here in Pakistan and work online, all i was looking to meet my wife and her family , they refused it no problem , i am gonna face it humbly like a man , but what if any case of emergency there in Poland , my wife gets sick or any thing XYZ happens i will face such refusal again ? i mean is there any law which can help us meet whenever we want to ? what should be the next step if the appeal is refused again ? should we knock the door of court ?


DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #2

i am settled here in Pakistan and work online

That's a contradiction, of sorts. If you work online, then you are settled not only in Pakistan, but in any other country where you have access to the internet, including Poland. Your reasons for returning to and staying in Pakistan are therefore not convincing.

how can we overcome this objection

You would have to clearly demonstrate, with abundant documentation, that you have abundant reasons to stay in Pakistan, of course, and that you would lose out by failing to return to Pakistan when your visa runs out. You would have to demonstrate that you have very strong ties to Pakistan that, if severed, would pose severe hardship that is greater than any possible benefits of staying in the EU. And, as I said, those ties would have to be backed up by abundant solid official documentation.

This is not a court of law, where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Quite the opposite. The burden is solely on you to prove that you have every reason to honor the terms of your visa. From what you have written here, that's going to be difficult, because one of the most important reasons for returning home, your source of income, is not dependent on your physically being in Pakistan.

You would also have to prove that your marriage to an EU citizen is genuine and was not entered into with the intention of entering and staying in the EU. Again, it's a case of guilty until proven innocent.

Frankly, nothing in your post that indicates that you have strong ties to Pakistan and intend to leave the EU when your visa expires, or that your marriage is genuine.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #3

@DominicB
REALLY thank you dominic for providing me a detail answer appreciate it alot , yes i do work online that is causing a hassle , honestly i have no intention to start my life in poland from scratch , i gave embassy my previous uk visa which i handle lawfully studied and came back to pakistan before the expiration of visa

and did appeal , in which provided documents which proves my ties to my country and rest few of them

we provided all the legal documents to prove our marriage even the cards we exchanged since 2012 and rest stuff

my question is that Sir

may god be with my wife always and protect her from any harm but for sake of argument if i have an emergency she can travel to me what if my wife have any emergency in poland and she needs me in that measure which steps we should take

and my post was about to ask a question regarding i described above , i am not here to prove my marriage on internet we love each other and with every refusal or bond is getting stronger , nor i judge folks based on there post *** nothing in your post that indicates that you have strong ties to Pakistan and intend to leave the EU when your visa expires, or that your marriage is genuine***
DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #4

which steps we should take

Getting the marriage registered in Poland would be the first step, but only the first step, of a long and complicated process. The easier and more sure way for you to have unhindered access to your wife in case of emergency is to have her move to Pakistan to live with you.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #5

@DominicB , our marriage is registered in poland and all documentation is done there by my wife , my wife is a teacher and she is working in poland , thats the option we save for ourselves :) Thank you Sir , Do widzenia !
DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #6

@Arsalan Zafar

Any discussion you will have with a consul is eventually going to come around to your intentions of leaving the EU when your visa expires. "Emergency" is not a viable strategy for evading that condition. There is a formal process of getting residency rights in a EU country for foreign spouses of EU citizens. I suggest you embark upon that process. It is called an EEA family permit.
gregy741 3 | 1,008    
9 May 2017  #7

it seems,you got refused cus you applied for wrong type of permit.it seems ,they refused you cus you didnt qualify for visit visa

if you married to polish citizen,you shouldn't apply for visit visa or tourist visa ect.but ,probably some spouse or family residency stuff.dunno
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #8

@DominicB honestly we are not playing emergency game nor we are in favour of it , will study the law , Sir !

@gregy741
hey gregy , how ya doing sir , we followed the simple instruction which was on polish embassy website and there is no such thing spouse visa or family visa in polish law , the non eu spouse have to get visit visa in order to meet his family and his entrance is being left on the mercy of consular , who grants him visa so he can meet his wife and family , it sucks
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #9

Have you looked at the appeals procedure or visited the consulate in person?
Cardno85 31 | 976    
9 May 2017  #10

Hiya

You can see it from the consulate POV, you work online so can work anywhere but your wife is tied to work in Poland. To them it makes it unlikely that you would leave. Do you have property in Pakistan that you could leverage to show that is your home, or are you renting (apologies, not sure about the property market in Pakistan with regards to people renting and buying)?
DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #11

The OP seems not to understand that the burden is not on the consul to provide a reason for not issuing a visa, but on himself to provide solid reasons why the consul should issue the visa. It's a case of "why", not "why not". The OP's posts are all written with the latter in mind, and in finding an end run around the consul's decision. A strategy that is doomed to fail.

Wasting time and money on an appeal is futile without being able to show that the consul's decision was not in accordance with the law. There is nothing in the OP's posts to indicate that the consul acted improperly.

I also get the impression that the OP is engaging in very selective, one-sided storytelling.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #12

Do you have property in Pakistan that you could leverage to show that is your home, or are you renting (apologies, not sure about the property market in Pakistan with regards to people renting and buying)?

This is often a key, as are investments at home.
dovla    
9 May 2017  #13

"there is no such thing spouse visa or family visa in polish law , the non eu spouse have to get visit visa in order to meet his family"

Not true.
migrant.info.pl/temporary-residence-permit-for-family-members-of-a-polish-citizen.html
DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #14

Actually, you're mixing apples and oranges. To apply for that residence permit, the applicant has to apply in person at the Urząd Wojewódzki. To do that, they have to enter the country first, for which they need an entry visa. Apparently, Poland does not have anything like the EEA family permit. so they do have to apply for a normal entry visa.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #15

Instead of that particular visa type, the OP needs a Schengen C Visa, purpose 02.

The precise lists of documents etc that consulates require and/or consider helpful vary from consulate to consulate, so the OP really does need to speak with them in person.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #16

@jon357 yes i sent my appeal to them and i was available for interview at consulate at time of interview candidate have to be present but at appeal procedure you can sent some one on your behalf as ur representative

@Cardno85 i love my work i wont change it just to get visa and i respect my wife work , she is shaping polish nation she is working as kindergarten teacher i don't own any property but i have savings and provided other documents which proves my ties with my family in appeal lets see how it goes

@dovla a person can only apply for permanent residence once he is in poland he cannot apply from outside poland

@jon357 i asked them which documents to provide to support my appeal , lady said its against our policy we can not provide you !
all documents are provided which is on their website are fulfilled, if u fail a student atleast let him know in which subjects he got failed
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #17

Agreed. They don't sound very helpful. I suspect it's a case of the more documents, the better. I wonder if there's a forum where people discuss having applied from Pakistan. One of the sub-forums (it's in Polish) here might help: .forummigracyjne.org/pl/faq.php?kat=8&faq=3282&lng=

I suspect the best advice comes from those who've already done this - there are certainly plenty of people who've come to Poland to visit or join their husband or wife. I wish you good luck with your visa.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #18

@jon357 thank you jon , for not being judgemental and being a positive support to a stranger , that shows alot about ya positive personality , thank you once again me and my wife will follow ya advice and check the forum :) god bless
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #19

Just an idea. You don't say what sot of work you do, however sometimes attending a conference or a short training course can get a visa for that. It doesn't have to be in Poland - it could be for example Czech. Then cross into Poland (there are no border checks on the train etc).
DominicB - | 2,259    
9 May 2017  #20

which proves my ties with my family

You don't have a job that ties you to Pakistan, and you don't have property or investments that do, either. I take it you do not have a public or private career that depends on you're staying in Pakistan.

The most significant family tie you have is with your wife, who is in Poland, not Pakistan. Your other family ties in Pakistan do not outweigh that.

So you really have no significant ties to Pakistan at all.

As Cardo says, it is little wonder that a consul would be very skeptical of your intentions to return to Pakistan. Nothing in your posts so far indicates that you would except your say-so, which is obviously not going to satisfy a consul. You could swear and promise that you are going to return to Pakistan until you are blue in the face, but without well documented evidence that returning to Pakistan will clearly be more advantageous to you than staying in the EU, you are wasting your time.

As for the appeal. the burden is on you to prove that the consul acted not in accordance with the law. There is nothing in your posts that indicate that this is the case.

I'm sorry, but based on the information that you did not give in your posts, it is very difficult for me not to come to the conclusion that you entered into a sham marriage with the intention of entering and remaining in the EU. And you shouldn't be at all surprised that the consul apparently came to the same conclusion.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #21

@jon357 i work as an affiliate marketer sells tshirts in usa while residing in pakistan so its an online work , right now i dont have any plan to attend any conference all things i learn about my business is buying a course online , i am not worried to be in europe at all ,cause i been there spent time in great britain and came home before expiration of visa never over stayed , the thing which pissess me offf that we are husband and wife we can meet where ever we want its our basic human right , she came to pakistan last year and again she is coming this year too when she will hav off so im not in favour to cross borders my purpose is to meet her and her family dont want to go czech then enter to poland .
jon357 70 | 12,786    
9 May 2017  #22

If you wish to stay here longer, you might speak with these people: visatrack.org/business-immigration-programme-poland/

we are husband and wife we can meet where ever we want its our basic human right

Agreed 100%. Unfortunately when petty bureaucracy works against you, you sometimes need to be creative. Really, the best people to speak to are those who've done it. And of course all of Schengen is one travel area.

These two may be of interest for you:
mohsinkhalid.com/tag/schengen-visa-for-pakistani/
insidermonkey.com/blog/6-easiest-countries-to-apply-for-schengen-visa-399102/
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #23

@DominicB with all due respect i once again urged you not to judge my relation , thanks
good night dude
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
9 May 2017  #24

@jon357 will follow ya advice and share these pretty interesting links with my wife
Cardno85 31 | 976    
11 May 2017  #25

i love my work i wont change it just to get visa and i respect my wife work

At no point did I say you, or your wife, should change your work. I was just saying that, as you work online, it's hard for an immigration official to see any tie to Pakistan with that.

I am not against you in any way, but more playing "devil's advocate", you need to view this whole situation, not from you or your wife's point of view, but rather that of the very bureaucratic Polish Immigration service. As such, it would be worth putting down a heavy investment somewhere in Pakistan that would prove you have to return.

The fact that you were in the UK and didn't overstay your visa is proof of nothing to the bureaucrats, it could actually work against you. It's not uncommon for non-EU people to visit EU countries and stick by their visa in the hope it will lead to them getting longer ones.

Again, not against you, just think you need to view this from more than one viewpoint.
PolskaFreedom    
12 May 2017  #26

Why not have your wife and child visit you in Pakistan? Or do you just want to abuse our nice country?
jon357 70 | 12,786    
12 May 2017  #27

As such, it would be worth putting down a heavy investment somewhere in Pakistan that would prove you have to return.

This is actually good advice. It may help with your visa application.

The fact that you were in the UK and didn't overstay your visa is proof of nothing to the bureaucrats, it could actually work against you.

I don't think this would work against him. One thing that can often help is proof of previous visas for travel.
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
12 May 2017  #28

@jon357 they didnt take my appeal i sent my representative to embassy they didnt accept it today was last day making exuses , said to my cousin that applicant should be available at time of appeal but when i get refusal letter they said you can sent your representative if you cannot travel but you must sent with authorization

@PolskaFreedom
firstly i aint got kids , my wife visited pakistan last year and she will come again this year when she will have off from work, and secondly i am not here to reply those rascist remarks , later
dany_moussalli 13 | 263    
12 May 2017  #29

Or do you just want to abuse our nice country?

there is nothing to abuse in Poland, it will actually benefit Poland and polish economy if he spends his money there, but it seems that your too blind to see that
OP Arsalan Zafar 1 | 11    
13 May 2017  #30

@dany_moussalli not every one thinks this way anyway
i amnot going to settle down in poland im having pretty good life here in pakistan just raised a question and wanted to know the views/answers

with roses thorns also come

i found many roses and many good helpful people on this forum :) and really appreciate yall help




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