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Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence)


maslanka 1 | 11
19 Nov 2013 #1
Hi,
I am a non-EU student currently taking a 'sort of' gap year (that is receiving private tutoring outside school). Recently I finished my 3-year-long Bachelor of Music degree in Warsaw, and prior to that I spent one year taking 'Staż artystyczny - sort of artistic training diploma usually taken after the studies'. All together, that would give me 5 years spent studying in Poland by the end of September 2014. According to the information I gathered on this forum, this would translate into 2.5 years out of 5 that is required when applying for a permanent residence. My task now is to find a way to extend and legalize my stay in Poland to reach that 5 years somehow. Since getting a job for me seems practically impossible right now, it may mean another 5 years of studying to fulfill that requirement - and to stand a slightly higher chance, hopefully.

As much as I would like to take up Master's degree in performing music (piano in my case) at Polish universities, the tuition fees happen to be at least twice that of a non-music degree, and in terms of career making in both near and far future (in music and non-music fields alike) it doesn't seem like the most necessary qualification.

So, my possible scenarios and questions now would be:

1) My friend has his own music agency (registered) and told me that he is willing to employ me as a musician, if that helps me anyhow. Do you know whether or not being hired by a music agency could extend my stay in Poland? If so, is it necessary for me to apply for the residence permit at the regional Urząd where he is based?

2) Could you get a temporary residence permit if you attended a language school? If so, does anyone know of such schools in the Tricity?

3) I am also considering an option to study further and get another degree (ideally a Master's but another Bachelor's degree shouldn't hurt), if that's the only way to extend my stay. How is it like studying at Gdańsk university as a foreigner?

4) This may be a little too specific, but does anybody know what subjects I might be able read at a Polish university having UK A-levels in German, Spanish, Music and Economics?

I will be most grateful for all answers and advice.

Many thanks for reading!
Monitor 14 | 1,820
19 Nov 2013 #2
Why don't you investigate the possibility of getting Working Visa as I told you, for graduate of Polish university? Working Visa means that you can stay in Poland too :) Give this link to your colleague who has an agency

"Oprócz tego odrębne rozporządzenie Ministra Pracy i Polityki Społecznej (Dz.U. 2006, nr 156, poz. 1116) określa jeszcze 26 przypadków, w których cudzoziemiec nie musi starać się o pozwolenie na pracę. Są to m.in. sytuacje, w których pracującymi są: absolwenci polskich szkół ponadgimnazjalnych" - that means "according to some law graduate of schools above gymnasium don't need permit for work"

Without a work permit can only hire a foreigner who is a citizen of an EU country or Norway , Iceland and Switzerland. In other cases, we must submit an application on behalf of the governor of the relevant permit . However, there are exceptions to this rule.

2. Check this: forummigracyjne.org/files/124/legalizacja_studentow-ENG.pdf I think they don't five visa for learning Polish easily.

3. There are foreigners studying in Gdańsk. Should be ok.

4. You will be able to read subjects in German and Spanish language
OP maslanka 1 | 11
19 Nov 2013 #3
Why don't you investigate the possibility of getting Working Visa as I told you, for graduate of Polish university?

Hi Monitor, thanks again for your help. Wouldn't have learnt half the things if it wasn't for you :)

Please correct me if I didn't understand you correctly:
I don't need permit to work and if I happen to find an employer I should be able to get this 'Working visa' you mentioned.

If I got it right, that's why I thought of working for my friend but as I asked above, wasn't sure whether it would suffice to legalize my stay because given it's a music agency my potential income, according to him, would only come from recordings or some concerts - basically not at all a regular source. Another thing is he lives in the very south and I live in Gdańsk. If I were to apply for a visa or karta pobytu, where should it be done (if it's possible at all)?

p.s. Just came back from Gdańsk University's administration office. There is quite a bit to choose from for Master's degree (even after a BMus degree) and some which I find interesting and possible are Linguistics (English and German), Economics, Rosjoznawstwo and English Philology (possibly the easiest). What in your opinion might be the most promising one to read if I wanted to settle in Poland and get a job?

Many thanks
Monitor 14 | 1,820
19 Nov 2013 #4
I don't need permit to work and if I happen to find an employer I should be able to get this 'Working visa' you mentioned.

This website which I linked to says that you don't need work permit from wojewoda, that means that your potential employer doesn't have to prove that there is nobody in Poland who could do the same job. You should apply for work visa.

here migrant they say:

Work visas
An applicant for work visa must submit:
- work permit
- a declaration of the intention to entrust a job to a foreigner
Work visas will be issued for the amount of time corresponding to the work permit or intent to hire a worker. It may not be longer than allowed by the specific work visa scheme

So you don't need work permit, but only this declaration. What it is look here: Declaration_of_the_intention_to_entrust_a_job_to_a_foreigner.html

Your employer should fill it, and you apply. I think it must be full employment and minimum salary should be sufficient, because I don't see anywhere information that it's not.

What in your opinion might be the most promising one to read if I wanted to settle in Poland and get a job?

IT is the most promising.
DominicB - | 2,709
19 Nov 2013 #5
What in your opinion might be the most promising one to read if I wanted to settle in Poland and get a job?

I have to agree with Monitor here. None of those degrees are of very much value on the job market, in Poland or elsewhere, and none of them will add much value to your B.Mus. degree, which is also not worth very much on the job market. IT may, however, be a good choice. And it is possible, theoretically at least, to combine it with your knowledge of musicology to find a niche in the market, if not in Poland, then elsewhere. I'm curious what the other choices were. Business might be a good choice, too, and could, theoretically, be combined with your music degree. I would talk to your professors about realistic career-enhancing degrees.

In any case, you don't say whether you speak Polish well. If you don't, you will be at a very big disadvantage in an job market that is highly competitive as it is, and have a very difficult time finding any decent-paying work here in Poland, unless you are a top performer on your instrument. Even then, jobs are few and far between.
OP maslanka 1 | 11
20 Nov 2013 #6
Hi Dominic! Thanks for your message.

I am aware subjects like IT, business and economics are definitely more the 'dealmaker', and having had a brief introduction to economics I actually considered it too. I am generally interested in all three of them. Yet, I would still like to spend some time on the piano and various music events while studying and just not sure (or confident) whether I could manage indeed an overload of new information, whereas languages (English, German and Russian) are going to be quite much easier since they are all very familiar to me. Also one of my friends, a Polish businessman at my dad's age, carefully suggested from his experience and observation that Russian studies might play well too. I was told at the office today this course touches on business (a major part), media and culture (which is my big personal interest anyway) which could as well prove useful for a pianist.

I'm curious what the other choices were.

ug.edu.pl/en/en/non-eu_students--offer

That's what the university website says, although when I asked in person the lady said you might be able to take up other subjects in exceptional cases (I am apparently the first ever to turn up to enquire about non-music Master's degree after a BMus)

In any case, you don't say whether you speak Polish well.

I am fairly comfortable with Polish. My first ever thesis happened to be in Polish (never imagined it before!) and went pretty well. I like Polish language very much in general so everyday learning is never a chore.

unless you are a top performer on your instrument. Even then, jobs are few and far between.

Couldn't agree more. This is a global problem I am afraid, and I guess you already know it too.
DominicB - | 2,709
20 Nov 2013 #7
I am aware subjects like IT, business and economics are definitely more the 'dealmaker'

IT and business are good candidates. Economics less so. There is a glut of economics majors at the present time. I once read that if Poland ceased offering degrees in economics altogether, it would be thirty years before there would be a shortage of economics graduates in Poland. Econometrics, on the other hand, is in demand, but that's a tough course and very math heavy.

whereas languages (English, German and Russian) are going to be quite much easier since they are all very familiar to me.

Unfortunately, degrees in languages are not worth much on the job market, unless you plan on becoming a language teacher (in which case, you will need a degree in education, as well). For most other jobs, the only thing that counts is your practical knowledge of a language, which you can just as easily obtain without getting a degree, or without any university study at all.

carefully suggested from his experience and observation that Russian studies might play well too..

Sorry to disagree with your friend, but degrees of that type are eminently useless. You're better off going with straight business instead, and learning Russian on your own. However, I would advise against Russian. Your time would be better spent improving the languages you already know (English, Polish, German and Spanish), than starting yet another one. And you can do that by simply intensively reading literature on your own.

Like I said, you should consult with your professors about which degrees would be best for you. All of the "easy" degrees are worth very little on the job market. Most degrees that are worth something involve a good deal of math. There are precious few non-math-intensive degrees that can help you get a well-paid job nowadays. The question is finding one that you can pair with your music degree so that they compliment and reinforce each other.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
20 Nov 2013 #8
If only you're ok working for long hours in front of computer and can grasp programming at least on basic level, then IT is the best investment. It's much better to do bachelor in IT than master in languages, business or economy. Except if it's some niche language, valuable for outsourcing companies in Poland, like Norwegian, Swedish or Danish it has no sense to invest 2 years of study into learning them. MSc is just a paper and what employer care is weather you know Norwegian or Java, not weather you have MSc in

philology, especially that it's quite easy to check the knowledge.

Despite of that if you want to study one of this programs, then I would suggest choosing Economy and learning German out of school. Then you have chance of finding job in some outsourcing center.

A list of IT programs in Poland in English:

On the other hand, whatever you choose, the music will be obstacle for you. If you want to have a job, start treating it as a weekend hobby.
OP maslanka 1 | 11
20 Nov 2013 #9
Hi and thank you both for replying!

I once read that if Poland ceased offering degrees in economics altogether

This is incredible! I don't know for what reason but it slightly amused me when I read it.

Your time would be better spent improving the languages you already know

I grew up learning Russian (which then helped me with Polish), thanks to my family members from former Soviet countries. True that I'd have some regular brushing up to do but I am still able to read a book or watch a documentary film in Russian. I was told, at Gdańsk University freshmen virtually start from the alphabets in Russian (since hardly any school teaches it up here). Fair point you made though. Perhaps there is not a great need to do a degree in Russian if I already know it well enough to get by. The thing which seemed the most attractive in Russian studies is that business aspect, as the administrant advertised, but this course is very new and god knows what the graduates are up to...

Like I said, you should consult with your professors about which degrees would be best for you.

Now that I am out of school, I practically have no professors, and even the ones I had back in England or Warsaw are all music or art people who would most likely discourage what I am about to do altogether. The only time I was involved in choosing subjects to study was just before my A-levels, when we had some career advice evenings. But then that was obviously years back in England and all looks different here and now in Poland.

he question is finding one that you can pair with your music degree so that they compliment and reinforce each other.

Would you be so kind to be my 'professor' and advise me on this, please? :) What do you think this subject might be in my case? Could it be international business?

On the other hand, whatever you choose, the music will be obstacle for you

I know wanting to do two major things at once seems impossible and almost greedy, but I cannot and will not drop my only true life-long passion to become a programmer for instance. As Dominic mentioned, the most ideal would be to get a job and obtain a degree in subject that will somehow co-operate with my music. Having said that, I totally can imagine how utterly difficult it could be.
DominicB - | 2,709
20 Nov 2013 #10
Would you be so kind to be my 'professor' and advise me on this, please? :)

I'd like to, but I don't know a lot about you nor do I know a lot about the music industry. Talk to people who have made a good career in music business. Having a mentor who has gone the way you hope to pursue is very helpful.

What do you think this subject might be in my case? Could it be international business?

International business is a good choice. I think IT may be beyond your grasp.

I cannot and will not drop my only true life-long passion to become a programmer for instance.

Monitor made a good point. Studying a real topic like business or IT is going to demand a lot of your time. And to succeed, you will have to make your studies your main passion for the time being, and music will be in second place. The next three or four years of your life are going to be very hard indeed. However, I agree that you don't have to abandon music entirely, and I think it's entirely possible that you can combine your music with international business and find a niche on the job market, if not in Poland, then somewhere in the world.

Also, keep up your languages. Read constantly in them and look up all the words you don't know. Someone with a degree in international business who has a knowledge of music and is fluent in English, German, Spanish, Russian and Polish has a lot to offer on the job market. I know the music industry is a very difficult job market, but, with qualifications like that, you should be able to find a place. Good luck!
OP maslanka 1 | 11
20 Nov 2013 #11
Hi again Dominic!

Talk to people who have made a good career in music business. Having a mentor who has gone the way you hope to pursue is very helpful.

In music world, the rule of 'no contact, no job' is absolutely second to none, if it's not the only mechanism there is. The difficulty here is when I encounter a musician, whom I truly respect for his music and talent, he is likely to be modest in both success and personality and simply not the 'big hand' in the market. If he has it all, then this successful artist is usually out of my reach or rather difficult to even just exchange a few words with, unless I'm willing to follow his cross-continental tours. After all, I am guessing this is the common paysage in the art world, where there is a constant struggle between the pure art (whatever that means to the particular artist) and finance & commerce (or simple survival)...

International business is a good choice. I think IT may be beyond your grasp.

I will take a look at how the curriculum looks like and what it is all about. Perhaps it might be interesting on daily basis, which means I can start learning it already.

Also, keep up your languages.

Thanks for the advice! :) Just out of curiosity, do you think some certificates might help anyhow? Like TORFL, TestDaF or C1 level in Polish?
Monitor 14 | 1,820
21 Nov 2013 #12
I will take a look at how the curriculum looks like and what it is all about.

If you mean business, then it's the same as with music industry. You need to know people to get a job. Or make your own business, but for that you need money, ideas, know how, but not necessary diploma in business. So don't look at it as job giving paper. So in my opinion it's worth studying only in expensive elite business schools, where you can meet children of rich parents.

Just out of curiosity, do you think some certificates might help anyhow? Like TORFL, TestDaF or C1 level in Polish?

If you will have free time you can make them, but if you don't have too much money, better invest them into language course, not certificate. Language certificates are needed when they're required, for example for work in public sector (there you need high level certificate of a country language) or you want to study abroad. In other cases certificate will not be important.
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Nov 2013 #13
In music world, the rule of 'no contact, no job' is absolutely second to none, if it's not the only mechanism there is.

I've spent the past few days reading up on people with music degrees. The prospects are even bleaker than I expected.

Having said that, I did find that there were some (not many) music graduates who succeeded in making at least a substantial part of their living either in performing, or in the music and entertainment industry in general. Those that succeed are unusually gifted and dedicated AND are assertive and persistent self-starters and shameless self-promoters AND are mentally flexible and innovative enough to find a rare niche in a highly competitive job market AND are extremely skilled at face-to-face networking AND have have serious qualifications in areas other than music AND, last of all, blessed by a lot of luck.

Even most "successful" musicians have to supplement their income as they are unable to make ends meet on the income generated by performing alone, and often have to rely on skills, knowledge and qualifications that have little or nothing to do with music. For every one that "makes it", there are thousands flipping burgers at MacDonalds, stocking shelves at Tesco, or working as barrister at Starbucks because they failed to develop skills other than music.

If you mean business, then it's the same as with music industry.

While I am a bit more optimistic that a business degree provides transferable skills that can be useful on the job market, I wholeheartedly agree that networking and developing contacts is essential for success in the world of business, whether you own your own company or work for someone else. This is true in any profession. The best jobs are always advertised exclusively by word of mouth are candidates are recruited by word of mouth on the grapevine. Your goal should be to figure out how to effectively become an integral part of the music and business grapevines. Learn to meet people and interest them in you. Take assertiveness training classes if your shy. Shyness is the kiss of death in fields like music or business that rely on aggressive self-promotion.

All in all, I think that, of all of the options open to you, a business degree is probably the most realistic option. An IT degree would be better, of course, but that may lie beyond your capabilities and inclinations.

if you don't have too much money, better invest them into language course, not certificate..

Wholeheartedly agree here. These tests are obscenely expensive and often not required. You can always take them if a prospective employer specifically requires them. Until then, there is no point in shelling out the money for these tests. I do not think that language courses beyond the intermediate level are an effective way of learning a language. You would do much better by developing an avid reading habit under the one-on-one tutelage of a experienced native speaker. Almost all of the work in learning a language beyond the elementary level consists of vocabulary acquisition through intensive reading, coupled with fluency training in productive skills in speaking and writing. A group setting in a typical language school is not the best place to develop those skills at an advanced level. One-on-one tutoring is going to be a lot more cost and time effective.
OP maslanka 1 | 11
22 Nov 2013 #14
Hello Monitor and Dominic! :) Thanks a lot for your super informative messages. I'm so glad I signed up on this forum!

music graduates who succeeded in making at least a substantial part of their living either in performing, or in the music

I wonder if these ones who succeeded are in the field of classical or jazz music, which is where I am. These two genres are probably the only ones that are mostly system based these days (even jazz has been an 'institution' for last 30 years or so) - that is to say: music schools, music universities (colleges, conservatoires, academies), master classes (usually attended for contact hunting) and degrees (often getting you nowhere) and unemployment! I have some personal contact with musicians outside classical and jazz, who also have it very hard but usually these guys seem to be combining their music making and everyday life outside music (degrees and jobs not related to music).

What I am about to write now is totally just my observation, that is not related to my initial question of this thread, but since you mentioned you spent some time reading on this subject, I wanted to share my thought with you. The problem I find in music education at schools these days is that due to the current system we get much less time for actual music making and learning one's way in this world. At my Conservatoire and music university for example, they required us to do many time-consuming, seemingly useless and unrelated subjects just in order to meet the standard as a place of higher education. One particular Academy of Music, currently University of Music, had to introduce many humanistic subjects just in order to change its name and to meet the requirement as a 'University'... I heard from some music graduates from Scandinavian countries, as well as certain American schools (Berklee) that they had some lectures on how to make career in music (and things related to it, such as recording companies, agencies, etc.), whereas my mates and I were probably pretending to play ping pong just to get our index signed, or chasing around a priest to beg if we could not go to his lessons of history because we needed to of course play our instruments a bit.

Having written all this, so happy that I made up my mind to not undergo the trap of MMus degree. Since I am out of school, I finally have some time to play on my beloved instrument, earn some money to feed myself and my kitten and importantly read and learn just about anything!

unable to make ends meet on the income generated by performing alone, and often have to rely on skills, knowledge

This applied to school trained classical and/or jazz musicians - some are extremely lucky to become professors, their assistants or teacher of instruments. Outside Poland, there is quite a few cases where formality doesn't matter as much and very talented young musicians become professors at the age of 25 or 27 (I know such pianists in London, Cardiff and various towns in Germany). This is the best possible case, since it supplies them with regular income from only a few hours of lessons a week and the possibility to keep practising and concertising. Many of my colleagues from music schools make their living out of teaching instruments, ear training or theory of music. Some with talent get jobs in arranging, accompanying at ballet or theatres, composing but given its scarcity, competition is just sky high. Having said this, I also know people waitressing or flipping burgers as you said, possibly next to other humanistic graduates.

Shyness is the kiss of death in fields like music or business that rely on aggressive self-promotion.

Again, applying this to my field in music - self-promotion usually only works after winning one or twenty major international music competitions. Especially nowadays with all this Youtube, Soundcloud and etc. Some opinionated people can change their mind about the performer and playing just depending on successes in mad competition world, when music is just the same as you hear it. I personally detest this aspect in classical music, where winning usually involves reasonable amount of set-ups and other methods of bribing (yep, still happens!). Of course having done a bit of research on possible competitions for me, luckily there are some left with its winners playing matching up to their titles. I'm planning on participating in a couple of them next summer, if not to get the title - just to play in front of wider audience, meet new people and most importantly to have some fun (both playing and travelling).
DominicB - | 2,709
23 Nov 2013 #15
Well, Maślanka, it looks as if you have a plan now, or at least a concrete idea of what avenues you can further explore. Good luck with your studies, and with your future career!
Meathead 5 | 470
24 Nov 2013 #16
What do you think this subject might be in my case? Could it be international business?

When it comes to education, do what you like. Study what interests you. A lot of people have jobs that don't match their degrees. If you want to make a go of it playing the piano, play the piano.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
24 Nov 2013 #17
Actually, having thought about this : combining Linguistics with a music education could very well work.
OP maslanka 1 | 11
24 Nov 2013 #18
Good luck with your studies, and with your future career!

Many thanks to you, Dominic! :)

When it comes to education, do what you like. Study what interests you.

I like this idea very much, and in a way feel glad that my interest is not just limited in music and I would genuinely like to read business or linguistics, purely out of my will. Thanks for the message in any case ;)

Actually, having thought about this : combining Linguistics with a music education could very well work.

This is what my professional musician friends are telling me. Although we say music is the universal language, it's surprising what knowing a few words in Hungarian can get you in this crazy place (I only knew how to say 'Yes', 'No', 'Hungarian' and 'I don't understand' in this language and it seemed to have made it easier to study with a well-known pianist in Budapest!) My best buddy from Poland got a good position in Scandinavian music scene, thanks to his brilliant music skills and fluent English and Norwegian (which he read at Warsaw University). Well, I guess linguistic skills in general are definitely very useful for all of us.
douglas21 - | 2
23 May 2018 #19
Merged:

PR queries on study in Poland



Hello Expert,
Have a good day to you all, I am Douglas Benedict Costa from Bangladesh. Age 34. Honors and Masters in management complete and Working for Standard Chartered Bank. I am planning to get PR in Poland. So what's my plan??? My plan is: I am planning to study in Poland, Subject : Information Technology.

My require queries :
1. Is it possible after study I can apply for PR?
2. (Example: Canada have a roles if any one study at least two years in Canadian College or university then student can apply for PR) So do you have any study duration for PR after study?

3. Which university is well recognized for my subject but low cost?

I will be very happy for your reply. Thanks in advance.

With regards
Douglas Benedict Costa
emailtocosta@gmail
cell : +88 01711665026


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