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Why is Poland importing so much coal?


jon357 71 | 21,003
12 Aug 2022 #31
one point Britain was covered in forests)

Never 'covered' since the marginal land on high ground that makes up a lot of the island was never forested and much of Western and Northern Scotland has always been treeless.

In the fertile areas, forests were cleared over a thousand years ago. Those that remain are however beautiful. Fortunately much of the country is literally made of very high quality coal.
Alien 12 | 1,952
13 Aug 2022 #32
Europe will launch its old hard coal mines, the problem will be solved.
jon357 71 | 21,003
13 Aug 2022 #33
its old hard coal mines

Reopen?

Easier said than done. Once a pit is closed, you've basically got to sink a new one which takes a lot of time and very hard work
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #34
In the fertile areas, forests were cleared over a thousand years ago.

For agriculture. Heating was a marginal problem for wooded areas.

why the industrial revolution happened in Britain first, is that they burned all their trees

No, they didn`t because there were hardly any left at the time. Check the map.

I'm an economic historian by training.

But certainly not an expert on the history of Britain. I hope you understand now that providing Britain as an example illustrating usage of wood for heating purposes which we are discussing now was a bit failed.



Bobko 11 | 1,117
13 Aug 2022 #35
@pawian

I don't know how this chart disproves what I said.

It shows a rebound in wood coverage at the turn of the century, by which point coal would have completely phased out wood as a source of energy and heat. Also, you can see the rate of decline in wood coverage was reduced in the period lasting from 1300 to 1700, which is when coal exploitation began to rise in Britain. It picked up again afterwards, but this is due to an explosion in the population of Britain.

Quote from Wiki:

Coal production increased dramatically in the 19th century as the Industrial Revolution gathered pace, as a fuel for steam engines such as the Newcomen engine, and later, the Watt steam engine. To produce firewood in the 1860s equivalent in energy terms to domestic consumption of coal would have required 25 million acres (100,000 km2) of land per year, nearly the entire farmland area of England (26 million acres (105,000 km2))

Finally, my point was why the Industrial Revolution happened in Britain and not elsewhere. Pointing out that there were almost no forests left by the time it was in full swing is completely besides the point. Industrial, or rather proto-industrial extraction of coal in Britain began precisely in the 13th century - when sea coal began to run out, and people started following the seams inland. This happened in Britain several centuries before it happened in the rest of Europe, which again, is why Britain was well positioned for the Industrial Revolution to happen there.

Easier said than done

Yes. They would be flooded, unless active (expensive) measures were taken to place them on "conservation". Restarting flooded mines is near impossible, and much more expensive and much less safe than digging new ones.
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #36
I don't know how this chart disproves what I said.

Very easily. You said:
A classic explanation of why the industrial revolution happened in Britain first, is that they burned all their trees

which could be interpreted as they burned all their trees for the sake of fueling industrial revolution. The chart shows it wasn`t so.
You should have used Past Perfect tense in the phrase: they burned- they had burned, to indicate it had been done earlier. Otherwise you cause misunderstandings.
Bobko 11 | 1,117
13 Aug 2022 #37
which could be interpreted as they burned all their trees for the sake of fueling industrial revolution.

I see. Apologies for causing confusion, and yes you are correct - that's what I meant.

Before anybody else accuses me of providing a too simplistic explanation of the causes for the Industrial Revolution - allow me to say that coal is just one factor, but a very important one. Of course, Britain's legal system, the high literacy rates, it's expansive overseas holdings, and the fact that the most important inventions were discovered there are all very important factors too. However, in many ways they are also tied to coal. For example, James Watt's steam engine, was invented as a solution to the problem of pumping water out of coal mines - before it began to be applied to other uses.

Stick to the subject of the thread please, i.e. Poland
jon357 71 | 21,003
13 Aug 2022 #38
Heating was a marginal problem for wooded areas.

Indeed. In that country it is rare to die of cold in winter due to the mild climate and in any case living was more communal then with large extended families sharing a hearth.
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #39
Moved to southern Poland 2 weeks ago. Trying to secure coal for winter. Suppliers we've spoken to do not have any supply. Friends we've spoke to from Bialystok say the same. I understand there is an energy crisis worldwide but not aware of that many European countries that have energy supply issues. Most can supply at an extremely high price but none aware of simply ran out. Anyone else experiencing this?
gumishu 12 | 6,084
13 Aug 2022 #40
Suppliers we've spoken to do not have any supply.

Poland imported about 8 million tonnes of coal from Russia before the invasion of Ukraine - then the opposition pressured the government to ban imports from Russia without securing supplies for those who use coal for heating - now there is a chase to import enough coal from other sources before the heating season
Novichok 2 | 7,564
13 Aug 2022 #41
Poland imported about 8 million tonnes of coal from Russia before the invasion of Ukraine

...but the Poles value "democracy" in Ukraine more than keeping warm in winter. So what is the problem?
As far as I know, Russians didn't refuse to sell their coal to Poles. It's the Poles who refuse to buy Russian coal in support of "democracy" somewhere else. I am so proud...
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #42
The Russians are not the only ones mining coal. Anyone know what the Govt plan is to secure alternative imports?
Novichok 2 | 7,564
13 Aug 2022 #43
I am absolutely sure that the Govt secured alternative sources before they decided to stop buying coal from Russia. Only a moron would not. Poles are too smart for that.
gumishu 12 | 6,084
13 Aug 2022 #44
Poles are too smart for that.

Novichok is being sarcastic - no Poland hasn't secured other sources before banning the Russian coal - there is a chase now, and God only knows if there will be enough coal for everyone
Novichok 2 | 7,564
13 Aug 2022 #45
Novichok is being sarcastic

Me, sarcastic??? I just expect people as smart as Poles to check if what they have on their backs are actually parachutes before they jump. I would.

One thing is sure...Loving your neighbors is often very expensive. Does anyone keep track of how much Poland has spent so far on its generosity?
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #46
then the opposition pressured the government to ban imports from Russia

You fekking stinking liar. It was solely PiS` decision, as always, they are never pressured by anything, even on the contrary - when the opposition pressures them, they take the opposite action.

Stop spreading those lies like a fekking rightard.

Poland hasn't secured other sources before banning the Russian coal

Thank your mentally deficient rightard rulers from PiS for that.
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #47
no Poland hasn't secured other sources before banning the Russian coal

Not only before but also after - I already wrote they wasted 3 months doing nothing. PIS mafia was busy counting their profits from the state economy which they have been sucking like leeches from the very beginning of their rule.
Bobko 11 | 1,117
13 Aug 2022 #48
@pawian

Was it not you, that several months ago was agitating to cut all trade links with Russia? Now you are saying that Poland should have continued trading with orcs up to the point that it's needs were covered through this winter? What happened to sleeping in your fur coat as long as it meant Russia would be cut from access to hard currency?
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #49
Now you are saying that Poland should have continued trading with orcs up

Where did I say it? Stop lying.
It is amaSSing - is today`s Saturday a sort of Festival of Liars??? All those RuSSists, Putlerites, rightards and rabid nationalists are lying like crazy. What TF???????
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #50
it was implicit in your words

No, it wasn`t. I never said that trade with orcs should be continued. Yesterday, in my post on the previous page I said:

Second, they put an embargo on RuSSist coal in early April which was a good and decent move altogether.

However, they did nothing afterwards, waiting senselessly for a miraculous god send supply of coal from Heaven. That is why there is a huge shortage of coal now and it is expensive.

Trade with RuSSia is out of question until RuSSists give up Ukraine and their sick dreams of reviving the USSR. I`d rather sleep in my fur coat in the cold bedroom than agree to trade with RuSSists again.


please accept my sincerely apologies.

Fekk all RuSSist and Putlerite liars.
Bobko 11 | 1,117
13 Aug 2022 #51
Fekk all RuSSist liars.

... and here we are - back where we started.

Perhaps, you have a solution which is practicable for Poland to solve its shortage of coal ahead of this winter, that does not include the "past tense" and spreading blame upon your political opponents?
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #52
you have a solution which is practicable for Poland

Being an agent of open source intelligence, you want to check if Poles know what to do??? Don`t worry, we will manage. If I don`t visit the forum for too long, it will mean our electricity was cut off but it isn `t a problem coz I need to take a serious break from the internet anyway.
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #53
no Poland hasn't secured other sources before banning the Russian coal

I think there was probably popular support for that decision but people would assume that the Government would source alternatives before the winter. They've had enough time. Even if they had to pay over the odds and subsidise it for 1 winter.
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #54
They've had enough time.

Yes, they have. And they have fekking wasted it. Why was Poland punished with such morons in power?? What had we done that God turned away from us???
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #55
I'm new to this country but can't imagine a Govt staying in power long if people can't heat their homes in the winter. People will be on the streets marching, if only just to keep warm :-)
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #56
People will be on the streets marching, if only just to keep warm :-)

Unfortunately, PiS voters can be easily brainwashed and indoctrinated that it is all the fault of the opposition. They are so stupid. And then they spread lies about the reasons of coal shortages

Look at what one of them said in post 42 three hours ago:
then the opposition pressured the government to ban imports from Russia without securing supplies

Cheeky lying bastards.

You are lucky I am here in time to debunk their nasty acts. :):):)
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #57
then the opposition pressured the government

The logic therefore is the Govt is weak.

I've no skin in the game here and no allegiance with any party but a system of government which allows this sort of situation is broken.
pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #58
no allegiance with any party

That is nice, we need an objective outlook, too. :):):) Here practically all members are either for or against PiS.
MacAindreas 1 | 21
13 Aug 2022 #59
I can buy Polish coal in Ireland !. Expensive but I can still buy it !!!!



pawian 194 | 19,809
13 Aug 2022 #60
Yes, yesterday I read an article about the export of Polish coal which is still going on. And going on... And going on. Like a toy rabbit with certain batteries.


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