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Custody Issue and Travel Abroad of my Girlfriend from Poland


Videobroker 4 | 3
28 Feb 2019  #1
I have a girlfriend in Poland that was never married but has a 5 year old child from a previous relationship. She's allowed to travel to Germany to visit family. She can also travel within Poland with her child. If we got married, what are the chances of her being able to move to the U.S. with her child? The father is a loser that only visits the child 1/3 of the year but he does pay child support, even though late. Is this a hopeless case? I understand that without the father's consent, that child cannot leave Poland. If my Polish girl marries and American (or anyone else who is not Polish), does she have any chance of moving away from Poland? I am concerned that this would turn into some ugly - and expensive - court battle without end and that the relationship would suffer. Since I don't speak Polish and have no job in Poland, I couldn't stay there while waiting for this to happen. I understand that if we got married in Poland, that I would be granted EU residency. Since I don't speak Polish, any confrontation with the father - who has his own girlfriend - over his daughter could be disastrous. I can picture the guy telling me to **** off and go back to America or threatening violence because of jealously for his daughter. Sure, finding a childless Polish girlfriend would be enormously better but I happen to love this one. Any suggestions? Stay or bail? Thank you.
terri 1 | 1,612
28 Feb 2019  #2
A mother cannot take a child outside of Poland without the other parent's permission. That you already know.
The fact that you marry her in Poland (you American, she Polish) will not alter this fact. That you already know.
The mother of the child herself can travel all over the world, but the child must remain in Poland. This you already know.
There is another way and this is the most sensible. Go to Court and try to get the parental rights of the father annulled due to his minimal contact with the child. Once the Court is satisfied and withdraws his parental rights, the mother will have full rights. For this to happen, you will need to speak to a good solicitor who will advise you how to go about this. It is vital that you have documentation to prove that he doesn't pay child support, visit times or anything else that you can prove to the Court that his parental rights should be withdrawn. This is the only way. You must do this quickly, as the father knowing that the mother of his child wants to go to USA may do the same to you and try and prove that the mother's rights should be withdrawn.

You personally must never ever have any contact with the father, do not speak or write or telephone him. He will use that against you.
Atch 17 | 2,712
28 Feb 2019  #3
It is vital that you have documentation to prove that he doesn't pay child support

But he does Terri. The OP said that he pays child support, though he's late with the payments. And he does visit the child, though sporadically. I think it's very unlikely that the court would remove his parental rights. There needs to be a serious neglect of the parental responsibilities for that to happen. The correct term btw is parental authority. The best that's likely to happen is a limiting of his rights.

"If the deprivation of the parental authority is found not to be justified (for example, the father supports the child financially even if it is not on a regular basis and in the amounts smaller than it seems to be appropriate."

The legal position regarding relocation abroad is this:

"When parental authority is granted to both parents, each parent has the right and at the same time is obliged to exercise it (Article 97§1, Family and Guardianship Code (FGC)). Parents should decide together about the important matters in the child's life.[/b]"

The information above which was provided by Dr Joanna Kosińska-Wiercińska and Professor Jacek Wierciński, is available in full here:

uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-622-5869?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1

I'd say that the chances of the court allowing the child to move would be heavily influenced by the economic circumstances of the OP. Can he afford to send the child back to Poland for regular holidays or pay for the grandparents to come out to the USA and visit. If not, I think it's not likely that the court would allow such a young child to relocate to a country so far away.
lul bul - | 48
28 Feb 2019  #4
Go to Court and try to get the parental rights of the father annulled due to his minimal contact with the child

Never going to happen in Poland until unless he hires a top notch attorney who can fry the father in court.Costs:Approx 75K USD and 1 to 2 years of time.

@ OP Here is an attorney recomended for that if you can afford him:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Giertych
terri 1 | 1,612
28 Feb 2019  #5
So the bottom line to all this...is NO CHANCE.

I have often thought of hiring Mec. R. Giertych myself.
Atch 17 | 2,712
28 Feb 2019  #6
Lul bul, don't be so silly. There's no need for anybody to spend that kind of money. You must either be American or spent most of your life there to have such ideas. Bringing a court case in this kind of matter is relatively cheap in Poland. The case to bring is not for removal of father's parental authority but for relocation of the child if the father doesn't consent. One thing in the mother's favour is that the kiddy hasn't started school yet, so there wouldn't be any disruption to schooling. If the child could start English lessons that would be good.

@Videobroker, how long have you known your girlfriend and how do her family feel about you? Do you have much contact with the little girl and do you have a proper relationship/friendship with her and not just the mother?
lul bul - | 48
28 Feb 2019  #7
Lul bul, don't be so silly

Not if you you love your spouse,and can afford it.

I have often thought of hiring Mec. R. Giertych myself.

If you need another good one is :wiadomosci.wp.pl/afera-leszek-czarnecki-kontra-knf-taka-sprawe-mogl-wziac-tylko-jeden-adwokat-6316484649703041a.
There was a very good one,handicapped in wheel chair but is banned for a while in land grab case,didnt chek maybe he reopened his name is :Gregorz Majewski(very good one,if he is still in business I can personally recommend him}

What case do you need one for anyway?
Atch 17 | 2,712
28 Feb 2019  #8
Judged from the perspective of a civilized, developed society where people are not expected to beggar themselves to obtain basic legal services, then 75,000 US dollars is an obscene amount of money to pay for a simple, straightforward legal case. That's the equivalent of about 400,000 zł.

The way to approach it is for the girlfriend to ask the child's father if he objects to her taking the child to live in the USA. If he does, then she can apply to the court to overrule the father's decision. She needs to present a convincing case to the court that the move will be more to the child's benefit than detriment. It's that simple. The outcome depends on how convincing that case is. The OP should ask himself the list of questions which I provided which were devised by two experienced and highly qualified Polish family lawyers. If he has good answers to those questions his girlfriend has a good case. If not, what, if anything, can he do to improve those answers.

I would however, recommend that they get a lawyer to present the case, as most people are unequal to dealing with courts on their own and Polish legal system is not exactly user-friendly. An experienced family lawyer should be well able to present their case at a reasonable cost.
Shitonya Brits
28 Feb 2019  #9
Sure, finding a childless Polish girlfriend would be enormously better...Stay or bail?

Bail my friend. Don't even give her an explanation. Just end it and move on.

5,000 mile distant relationships are both amusing and sad.

If you can't find a girlfriend in your own country with hundreds of millions of people then that says a lot about you.

If you need a girlfriend from a particular country like Poland but can't speak the language and are relunctant to relocate yourself then you have other issues that will doom this relationship of yours even if your girlfriend didn't have a child with another man.

And on that note, don't be that desperate beta male who will provide for a woman with another man's child.

She made sleep with you but she will never love and respect you. You are not "the one" for her. It's just your turn.

If she couldn't keep things together in her first relationship then she will think nothing of dumping you. Especially once she gets residency or citizenship in the US.

And don't listen to any absurd and unhelpful suggestions being given on here to get tangled up with lawyers in Poland. This will only end up draining you of your time, energy and resources which could be spent on yourself or a relationship with a single local girl in your area.
terri 1 | 1,612
28 Feb 2019  #10
I believe now, that the girlfriend (with a child) saw a meal ticket.
OP Videobroker 4 | 3
2 Mar 2019  #11
Thank you for all the constructive answers. Yes, I am aware of the many difficulties and impossibilities in a case like this. As for finding a girlfriend in the U.S.A., I sure can, I just choose not to. Tired of the culture here. I was born in another country anyway and speak 3 languages, just not Polish. I am a U.S. citizen. Yes, I could find some American woman. (I am divorced, btw and have kids of my own) Yes, I see that this could be a very difficult situation. She is not trying to bail out of Poland to live the "great life" in America. Given the father of the child is a complete tool who visits 6 months out of the year, just enough to keep his parental authority and pays late child support, no xmas visits, no bdays visits and doens't care about the child's education or daily life, and yes, I maintain contact with both mother and child. The child loves me and so does the mother, as far as I can tell.

I have also been to Poland and yes, long distance relationships are difficult but daily video chats for months have been useful. I think that many of you may be right. This is a BIG problem. I cannot afford $75K for a lawyer and I would never pay that kind of money or any money to Polish lawyers. The child's father has moved on, has his own steady girlfriend but as soon as he finds out that the mother has a chance to take the child away to America, I am sure the ahole will show up.

She had a Polish boyfriend before and the ex boyfriend got in the middle of it and scared the guy away from the relationship.This girl is SO unfortunate to have mated this POS - she was young - and fortunate she had a beautiful child with him. Part of me tells me that she may be condemned to only finding and possibly marrying a Polish man that's willing to put up with the ex and the situation.

Even then, that could be difficult for the new guy to have to deal with her ex. I am white and as far as acceptance by her parents, it's not an issue. She lives them and they accept me. I can see that it would be much easier to find a woman that is no encumbered by a child custody battle that could take years. OR have to wait for the child to turn 18, which would be 14 years from now!

Basically a woman that has a child out of wedlock in Poland heavily limits her options to find a good man, especially someone living outside Poland because of this issue with ex's that create hell for the women they mated and had a child or children with.

I also assume that once the ex finds out that an American guy is involved he would want to raise hell for his child's new "Daddy"... Yeah, it can get ugly. Sad situation. In the end, the child is suffering. She dislikes her Dad. Runs away from him. The mother too but she is poor and needs the meager 600 sloty every month. I don't know, if it were my child, I would let her go to a better life, one that I could never give her, even if it were far away. That's what my parents did for me. I left another country for America when I was still in my early teens, by myself, parental permission and all. Long story. They weren't even married.

So, that's why, in a way, I got more connected to this single mother and child and am/was trying to pay it forward. No, she's not after a Green Card and yes, she could bail once she got established in America. But that's everyone, here, 50% divorce rate in this country. No surprise. So you need not be a foreign woman to ditch some guy after a few months or few years into the marriage. I love her but I can see that a future together is pretty slim. Unless God was merciful and knocked some sense into the pest that causes all these problems for the mother and her/his innocent child. Life isn't fair and after all the child IS his child, not mine. I understand that.

Also, many Polish women need to understand that having a child out of wedlock or getting separated/divorced can really mess up their futures if they want to leave Poland and try a better life/money/lifestyle anywhere if there are difficult custody issues. I have lost sleep over this due to love to both mother and child. But what can I do? I am not some rich American. This may be doomed to failure, occasional visits to Poland and nothing happening. Plus the risk of an eventual physical confrontation with that POS and not knowing Polish on top of that. Yes, the odds are heavily against me. She's a good person. She doesn't sleep around and she is a great, dedicated mother. She has not been chasing American/British men to get out of Poland. Any guy, once he realizes the situation, would give up on loving her. She is aware of that too. This world is full of POS that make the lives of their ex's miserable and the lives of their own children, preventing them from moving forward, even with a new local spouse. Sick and frustrating. This happens here in America too but the laws are more strict and more favorable towards the mothers and totally about what's good for the child.

Thank you so much for your replies.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
2 Mar 2019  #12
May I ask - why don't you move to Poland? If you marry her, you'll have the right of legal residency in Poland.
Ironside 47 | 9,544
2 Mar 2019  #13
have a girlfriend in Poland that was never married but has a 5 year old child from a previous relationship

Sure, circumstances are different for every each case, we shouldn't judge or brush with the same yada yada ..... but seriously. The very fact that you post to pose such a question on the internet (assuming you're not a troll, which is very likely) tell me you're not 100% sure IF you want to take this relationship to the next level.

IF that is the case, just bail. Find yourself a gal somewhere where you live.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,144
2 Mar 2019  #14
have a girlfriend in Poland that was never married but has a 5 year old child from a previous relationship

Well there's your first mistake....
OP Videobroker 4 | 3
3 Mar 2019  #15
I am not a troll and the questions area real concerns.
Rumchajs
3 Mar 2019  #16
Pay him under the table, the father of a child, make a deal with him.
Sure he will sign all papers for a couple of 1000$. Much cheaper than involving polish lawyers.
There is a small businessmans in every pole
Shitonya Brits
3 Mar 2019  #17
She is not trying to bail out of Poland to live the "great life" in America...The mother too but she is poor and needs the meager 600 sloty

Okay. The answers are in front of you. You should write a diary and then go back after a few days and highlight all the contradictions going on in this relationship of yours.

The child loves me and so does the mother, as far as I can tell...the child is suffering. She dislikes her Dad.

It sounds like this woman is a manipulator. Everything you know about the father is filtered by the mother who is coaching the child to behave positive around you and negative around him.

And there is a great likelihood that you are not the only one being cucked by her. If the father wants nothing to do with the child and the child "runs away from him" then he is very likely not the biological father even if all the paperwork says he is. Having been cucked himself by this manipulator then his uncooperativeness is completely understandable whether he is doing it deliberately or instinctively. You need to show him some empathy and listen and believe his side of the story.

This girl is SO unfortunate to have mated this POS...and fortunate she had a beautiful child with him

LOL! You are such a reliable emotional tampon! That or a very bad actor.

But regarding this, since it would apply to any similar situation, every time she looks at her "beautiful child" she will only see herself and the male (not you) she knowingly wanted to impregnate her.

She's not condemned. She is an adult who needs to take responsibility for her actions rather than passing them off on some beta male that is desperate for sex.


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