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What are chances for Poland to join in Eurasian Economic Community?


sascha 1 | 826
14 Oct 2011 #31
Not true. Yugoslavia was a creation of the Versailles Treaty.

wrong. its was called after ww1 Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes what after ww2 ended up in YU.

Then also, existence of Yugoslavia was good for Poland. Defending Yugoslavia, Serbians defended Poland`s interests, too. Yugoslavia was even created as deal among Polish and Serbian elite.

that is correct and thats the reason why a strong YU was the thorn in the eye of the west.

poland should imo play on more cards than only eu/nato. who knows where those 2 ships will end up? ;)
sobieski 107 | 2,128
14 Oct 2011 #32
wrong. its was called after ww1 Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes what after ww2 ended up in YU.

Wrong. First time the term "Yugoslavia" was officially used was in 1929.
The first name was only a name. In effect it was the same state. Nothing to with some Polish/Serbian elite
The entity, whatever its name, was a creation of Versailles.
And a "Balkan Federation". It is just that. Since when does Poland belong to the Balkan?
Poland is part of Mitteleuropa and as such of Western European civilization.
sascha 1 | 826
14 Oct 2011 #33
Wrong. First time the term "Yugoslavia" was officially used was in 1929.

obviuously u dont read history or a short wrap up at wiki. do so. that what u call yugoslavia was an idea but NOT a country after ww1. that country was as i quoted above kingdom of serbs, croats and slovenians.

that what came out of the kingdom after ww2 was then the state AND the idea of yugoslavia.

And a "Balkan Federation". It is just that.

that sounds quite arrogant. it was a state not a federation since all who were in the kingdom agreed to be part of it. noone was forced.

Since when does Poland belong to the Balkan?

not to the balkan, but to the slavic world since they are slavs.

Poland is part of Mitteleuropa and as such of Western European civilization.

there is another thread where there is the dispute where poland belongs, geographically and politically. ;)

geographically they belong to middle europe/middle east europe imo. otherwise yes they belong to western civilization like complete europe(geographically AND politically) based on roman and greek civilizations/cultures.

ur emotionally involvement doesnt change the fact that poles are slavs and for me as a non slav they are simply not west world in a meaning u use. that of course is not undermining my respect and affection for them.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
14 Oct 2011 #34
obviuously u dont read history or a short wrap up at wiki. do so. that what u call yugoslavia was an idea but NOT a country after ww1. that country was as i quoted above kingdom of serbs, croats and slovenians.

that what came out of the kingdom after ww2 was then the state AND the idea of yugoslavia.

Yes I do read history. Yugoslavia as it was known after WWII was the same after the Versailles creation in 1919. I am not talking here about political and ethnographically differences. Still it requires some genuine madness to think that its 1919 creation is because of some imaginary Serb/Polish/elite initiative.

As far as I know Wilson, Clemenceau and Lloyd George were not serbian?
As being Slavs...Poles are not serbs. They are West Slavonic, shared with their Sorb, Slovak and Czech neighbors. They share a common Western inheritance, a common set of values and a common, if checkered, history. A common Roman-Catholic inheritance. What do Poles have in common with serbs?
sascha 1 | 826
14 Oct 2011 #35
Yugoslavia as it was known after WWII was the same after the Versailles creation in 1919

as i quoted: what u call YU was after ww1 kingdom of serbs, croats and slovenians(01.12.1918) what changed after ww2 the name to yugoslavia. keep up the work with history. ;)

As being Slavs...Poles are not serbs.

really?

What do Poles have in common with serbs?

they are both slavic nations.

They are West Slavonic, shared with their Sorb, Slovak and Czech neighbors. They share a common Western inheritance, a common set of values and a common, if checkered, history.

sob, i know what u r trying to do here, but it will not work. u try to rank slavic people and make distingtive differences among them based on religion values etc.(what is western inheritance? sth political i suppose, made and grown now to emphacise the differences) what is complete bs and try to sell them (serbs) because of that less civilized/not similar to poles?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
14 Oct 2011 #36
what is complete bs and try to sell them (serbs) because of that less civilized/not similar to poles?

Hear! Hear! Czesław Miłosz wrote that the two nations that Poles have the most affection for are the Hungarian and the Serbian.
sascha 1 | 826
14 Oct 2011 #37
i agree with the thesis, but ur companion here sob thinks otherwise and tries some bs disqualification among slavic nation which are friends for long time.

btw, poles should join that union no matter what the past...playing on one card never plays it fully ;)
southern 75 | 7,096
14 Oct 2011 #38
They are West Slavonic, shared with their Sorb, Slovak and Czech neighbors.

Serbs came from the same region.They were neighbours to Poles and Sorbs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Serbia
Natasa 1 | 580
14 Oct 2011 #39
Czesław Miłosz wrote

And there is strong pro Polish sentiment also coming from Serbs.
Crow can be prone to use stronger rhetoric means in his expressions of emotions toward Poles, but even though I don't have his emotional sophistication, nor share his political attitudes, I know exactly what is he talking about when he is becoming nostalgic and sentimental about Poland.

Collective unconscious common, genome closeness (feeling of kinship), I have no explanation, perhaps both work to give this result.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
14 Oct 2011 #40
Hear! Hear! Czesław Miłosz wrote that the two nations that Poles have the most affection for are the Hungarian and the Serbian.

Poles have affection for Serbs? Since....when?

I mean, I live here, I speak to Poles every day, and none of them particularly care about Serbs.

I know one guy who does a lot of business with Serbs, but that's it.

(no doubt you'll now try and show me photographs of a few football hooligans, as if to prove something)

I'm pretty sure 99% of Poles know exactly two things about Serbs - the capital, and Milosevic. Having said that - I liked Serbia :)
peterweg 37 | 2,319
16 Oct 2011 #41
and none of them particularly care about Serbs.

And why has this topic descended into anther Serb back slapping/wankfest.
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #42
better that than ethnic cleansing
Natasa 1 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #43
Those were Croats, not Serbs media confused that part ;) 250 000 Serbs were in one day made to leave their homes in Croatia. The world was silent about it. 1995. Operation storm.
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #44
I am the first to admit that I am not an expert on the history of Yugoslavia
Crow has been very kind to explain some of the history to me

It is very complicated. In the west, the Serbs are generally portrayed as being the bad guys with the Chetniks being the worst of the worst

The history is interesting and Crow has encouraged me to read more about it
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
16 Oct 2011 #45
Hear! Hear! Czesław Miłosz wrote that the two nations that Poles have the most affection for are the Hungarian and the Serbian.

From what I've heard and seen Poles don't care much about Serbs mainly due to their war of aggression and the ensuing atrocities committed in the 90’s. If anything their sympathy was clearly on the side of Croats as manifested by numerous Polish volunteers fighting in Croatian army against the Serbs. There were no Poles fighting for Serbs…

Furthermore Poles are traditionally (and with a very good reason) suspicious of Russians. And such Orthodox Serbs are often seen as some sort of iffy thuggish wannabe Russians who would like nothing more than to see Balkans under their boot much in the same way as Russia, over the centuries, had denied freedom to numerous countries in Eastern Europe.
Natasa 1 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #46
If anything their sympathy was clearly on the side of Croats as manifested by numerous Polish volunteers fighting in Croatian army against the Serbs

If some lost souls were there, I saw the reportage about foreign volunteers in CRO, well let's say it was hard to find one face with teeth, or not being at some moment diagnosed as a psychopathy( absence of mimic and hardly articulated sounds that were supposed to be interview), or borderline intelligence at best. It was a horror show, gallery of people that resembled circus artists ;)

When it comes to Croats, have in mind that Serbs have memory of 300 000 slaughtered Serbs by Nazi Croats, in camps, in pits, 1941, 42, 43. the parents and grandparents of those Serbs in CRO in the same region war was going on in 1991.

Fear for life is a strange thing, makes people defensive aggressive, they want to live, knowing that the same Croatian rhetoric supported in 1991. by the West lead 50 years ago to worst death camps in WWII. See under Jasenovac.

And such Orthodox Serbs are often seen as some sort of iffy thuggish wannabe Russians

Serbs just wanna have fun Flagleess :))) Nobody wants to be Russian. Serbs usually like being Serbs. No they love it. One of the social studies performed few years ago by American social psychologist about self esteem, showed that at least there, Serbs are the first in the world. Hence, they don't want to be anything else. They feel good in their skin.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
16 Oct 2011 #47
When it comes to Croats, have in mind that Serbs have memory of 300 000 slaughtered Serbs by Nazi Croats, in camps, in pits, 1941, 42, 43. the parents and grandparents of those Serbs in CRO in the same region war was going on in 1991.

It's often forgotten these days, sadly.

I was reading about just who was fighting who at the Battle of Vukovar - devastating, and not as clear as the Croats presented it to the world.

Always thought, personally, that the Croatian Serbs were thoroughly manipulated by both Trudjman and Milosevic for their own purposes.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Oct 2011 #48
Good post, delph.

Anyway, Poland has joined enough groups, I'd say.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
16 Oct 2011 #49
Serbs just wanna have fun Flagleess :))) Nobody wants to be Russian. Serbs usually like being Serbs.

What you refer to here is simply called nationalism in its very crude form or just state of being very nationalistic in a sort of outdated and narrow minded 19th century way. Elsewhere things have evolved...

hmm I wonder if the Serbian media gave Russian and Greek volunteers fighting for Serbs the same psychological assessment... or did they just called them heroes..?

When it comes to Croats, have in mind that Serbs have memory of 300 000 slaughtered Serbs by Nazi Croats, in camps, in pits, 1941, 42, 43.

...but of course 1945 , remember?! Yeah! Let's go kill the grandpa, it's been only 50 yeras! - grow the fvck up.
pawian 179 | 16,414
16 Oct 2011 #50
=Crow]What are chances for Poland to join in Eurasian Economic Community?

Eurasian means countries which geographically (Russia) or mentally (Belarus) are a combination of European-Asian traditions.

Poland is purely European.

Why should we join the Community which is alien to us and against our traditions?
Natasa 1 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #51
What you refer to here is simply called nationalism in its very crude form or just state of being very nationalistic in a sort of outdated and narrow minded 19th century way. Elsewhere things have evolved…

That is American view, you have the same phenomena you call it patriotism, because for lack of national bond of your citizens. You are raised form the day one to love your country, we are raised to love our nation.

I don't want to even try to discuss nationalism with you, you have far less knowledge about its routs, development its meaning, so it is futile. What you think you know is something completely else. No offense, I dealt with the subject from all sides, psychological, historical, legal, political. Second you tend to display rigid cognitive style where my attempts would be stopped for the second time. Third, you were more than once very mean, at times also vulgar when it comes to description of Serbs, so I , knowing that attitudes especially after emotions are envolved and person repeats them over and over (like you did) they become even more solid. Very rarely people change their attitudes through discussion, it is known what are the factors that have to involved, neither of us possess the traits to perform something that would make you unbiased. On my side lack of authority, on yours integrative thinking, tendency not to oversimplify phenomena, and above all mechanism of displacement you tend to use when it comes to Serbian topic, you are simply mean and angry with not much to say about the topic besides the usual things.

hmm I wonder if the Serbian media gave Russian and Greek volunteers fighting for Serbs the same psychological assessment... or did they just called them heroes..?

It is good to say that the reportage about foreign volunteers in CRO was made by BBC I think, certainly not anything close to Serbs. It sadly should have presented the support, but for those who have basic literacy it presented something completely different.

I didn't know that Russians volunteered in this war nor Greeks, until I came to this forum and was involved in shameful discussions like this one where I have constantly for the sake of TRUTH to dig out from the graves people who were victims on Serbian side. It seems to me, also to a blind one, that that side is slightly underrepresented here. That truly is causing nausea. I don't see a reason why would you be so engaged in Crow's threads, discuss American, Polish, Danish? issues that have some relevance for you and where you can be creative, not destructive and redundant.. Sadly your contribution here is close to zero.

...but of course 1945 , remember?! Yeah! Let's go kill the grandpa, it's been only 50 yeras! - grow the fvck up.

It was mostly driven by fear for survival, Croats declaring independence changed their constitution and expelled Serbs that were big minority out of it, reviving the traumatic past of the people there. History exists, like it or not. your country your issues, I am not getting involved in discussions that deal with something that I have less knowledge about, and especially I wouldn't dare to give you lessons how to behave. You displayed all of your shortcomings on one- single topic Serbs.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
17 Oct 2011 #52
Furthermore Poles are traditionally (and with a very good reason) suspicious of Russians. And such Orthodox Serbs are often seen as some sort of iffy thuggish wannabe Russians who would like nothing more than to see Balkans under their boot much in the same way as Russia, over the centuries, had denied freedom to numerous countries in Eastern Europe.

Yes, that right on the nail.
Natasa 1 | 580
17 Oct 2011 #53
That is utter crap you would like to believe in that conveniently justifies behavior of the West in this area. You are both prone to cognitive slippages, letting your emotions reasoning for you.

Like with Amanda aka guesswho and Bratwurst boy, discussions are waste of time about this topic.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
17 Oct 2011 #54
discussions are waste of time about this topic.

Then why do you Serbs persist in posting crap about a country nobody here gives a damn about? Serbs and Poles are not brothers, the Turks are Serbia's closest genetic match. Poles do not want anything to do Serbia and Russia, everything they have done since gaining independence makes that quite clear. Why don't you find a Serbian forum and discuss it there, this forum about Poland and Serbia is nothing to do with Poland?
sascha 1 | 826
17 Oct 2011 #55
not defend anyone, just the simple facts:

Then why do you Serbs persist in posting crap about a country nobody here gives a damn about?

that is ur personal, unqualified perception. not important at all.

Serbs and Poles are not brothers

incorrect, they are both slavic nations and that makes them brothers

the Turks are Serbia's closest genetic match.

u know that this is a ethnical offense and shows that u dont know a sh1t about balkan history. the ottomans occupied the balkan, serbia, for more than 400 years, but there was NO genetic exchange. take a history lesson about the balkans.

Poles do not want anything to do Serbia and Russia

again ur personal point. not important and just babble.

everything they have done since gaining independence makes that quite clear

what independence? r u dreaming? not they are on the infusion of eu and usa/nato.

Why don't you find a Serbian forum and discuss it there, this forum about Poland and Serbia is nothing to do with Poland?

as i explained above, since both r slavic nations, of course they have more things in common than not.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
17 Oct 2011 #56
Exactly. Nothing to with Poland at all.
sascha 1 | 826
17 Oct 2011 #57
where there is peterchen, there is johnny with his unqualified view. nice man. didnt expect other.

What are chances for Poland to join in Eurasian Economic Community?

even theough poland joined quite a lot of 'communities', some of them willingly, some of them because it is expected to do so, maybe this community is an alternative. we'll see if it becomes real at all...
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
17 Oct 2011 #58
unqualified view.

Given that I live in PL and you don't, I'm rather more qualified to speak than you who have only an abstract view, and trolling at that.

What are chances for Poland to join in Eurasian Economic Community?

Zero. This so-called Eurasion thing is Russian expansionism, abhorrent to Poland.
Natasa 1 | 580
17 Oct 2011 #59
but there was NO genetic exchange. take a history lesson about the balkans.

There was but not in a direction Resident Evil said. According to Igenea, Turks have Slavic element in their genome, I think it was 9% or something like that. That could be explained by practice called Tax in blood, where Serbian children, the tallest the healthiest in some areas, south Serbia and parts of FMRY, were taken from their parents to be raised by Turks and to become future Turks and Ottoman army.

Serbs are mostly a mixture of Slavs who settled here and the population already inhabiting Balkans, and in large share a genome unfortunately with teutonics and I think some celtic markers too are there. Turks are nowhere to be found. Teutonics or Turks it is irrelevant for us. Same sh1t. Celtic is OK ;)
sascha 1 | 826
17 Oct 2011 #60
Given that I live in PL and you don't, I'm rather more qualified to speak than you who have only an abstract view

true, i dont live in pl, but given ur comments it doesnt reflect that. rather the know main stream media bs and ur subjective point. no critical view of urs at all.

and trolling at that.

tja, sometimes the abstractive point but open minded is much more relevant than other. ;)

Zero. This so-called Eurasion thing is Russian expansionism, abhorrent to Poland.

if mr tusk is continuing his journey in the anglo hinterteil, of course not. we'll see.

i think that there are also other views to this questions, less absolute than ur statement in the polish society. i dont think they eat all what they get currently served, no matter the suspicion for the russian aspirations...

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