The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Law  % width posts: 150

Bank accounts taxed by up to 10%. Can it happen in Poland?


ShawnH 8 | 1,507
22 Mar 2013 #91
Yeah, repatriate the money to Russia where they can claim it. ;-)
OP poland_
22 Mar 2013 #92
Russian Leader Warns, "Get All Money Out Of Western Banks Now!"

They can to no solution with CY, EU have informed they will allow CY banks to go belly up as from Monday, so it would be a standard message if fact.

Latest

The Cypriot parliament has approved the first two of a number of measures designed to restructure the economy and raise funds in order to secure an EU bailout.

MPs voted in favour of a "national solidarity fund" - which would nationalise pension funds, with bonds issued against future natural gas revenues - and capital controls to prevent a run on the island's troubled banks.

The first two of the package of measures were agreed shortly after it emerged Cyprus was reportedly considering a levy of 15% on all bank deposits over 100,000 euros as its attempt to secure a rescue for the economy.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
22 Mar 2013 #93
It looks like there may be more risk to Cyprus from Russian Oligarchs than from the average Cypriot.
OP poland_
22 Mar 2013 #94
It looks like the EU has won the ' Med Gas' confrontation with Russia in CY.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498
22 Mar 2013 #95
Re Gazprom.
Proven Cypriot gas reserves are around half of what is needed to cover the debt.
Any co operation in extracting gas would be opposed by Turkey.
Turkey could prevent oil and gas being transported from the 'Stans where Gazprom has a major interest.

In short, not worth it financially to Gazprom to get involved.
Marek11111 9 | 816
23 Mar 2013 #96
"Russian economist grandson
Posted on March 21, 2013 by John Irving| 10 Comments
An elderly resident of Pathos in Cyprus has been doing something odd for the past few weeks. Every Friday she goes to the bank and withdraws all of her money, then returns it on Monday. When asked why she gave the following statement to bank employees:

"My son is an economist in Russia and he has been telling me, if something happens with the Cypriot banks, it will happened on the weekend. He told me to withdraw the money every Friday."

She was laughed at by the bank employees, but now unlike most of the country she has access to her money while the banks in Cyprus stay closed until at least Tuesday of next week. While the Cypriot legislature did not pass a bill that would have taken between 6.75% and 10% of bank deposits, who knows what desperate politicians will do now to get their fix of financial aid from the IMF. At least one person won't be affected, thanks to a caring grandson."

tavernkeepers.com/grandmother-in-cyprus-receives-valuable-advice-from-russian-economist-grandson
peterweg 37 | 2,319
23 Mar 2013 #97
From what I am seeing it is likely CY/EU will agree to stealing money from people with over 100,000 Euro.

First, this is not the EU, its Cyprus's mess - their banks lost the money. Every country is responsible for their banks behavior, their choice to buy Greek bonds.

Second, only 100k is required to be guaranteed (it used to be 20k) and its Cyprus who is supposed to pay the 'Guarantee', not the EU.

Anybody who has over 100k, a) knows it is NOT protected b) must have know for two years Cyprus would collapse. c) knows they are classified as sophisticated investors who take professional advice

Any burden for the guarantee is supposed to fall on the financial industry, not on the general population directly.

if something happens with the Cypriot banks, it will happened on the weekend. He told me to withdraw the money every Friday

Amazing anyone had any money there (never-mind 100k+, FFS), the Greeks emptied their banks years ago.

It looks like the EU has won the ' Med Gas' confrontation with Russia in CY.

The only war is in your head. Gazprom owns a British gas company, was that a war too?
jon357 67 | 16,854
23 Mar 2013 #98
It looks like the EU has won the ' Med Gas' confrontation with Russia in CY.

Thank heavens for small mercies.

The only war is in your head. Gazprom owns a British gas company, was that a war too?

The commercial cold war is only just beginning.
OP poland_
23 Mar 2013 #99
knows they are classified as sophisticated investors who take professional advice

Putting money in a bank is not making a investment you mug...

The only war is in your head. Gazprom owns a British gas company, was that a war too?

Peterweg. you are so naive.

oilandgaseurasia.com/news/russias-eu-envoy-dont-want-gas-war-over-gazprom-probe

The deal has been done with CY/EU 20% levy on Bank of Cyprus group accounts over 100,000 Euro, 4% levy at other CY banks over 100,000 Euro

Any burden for the guarantee is supposed to fall on the financial industry, not on the general population directly.

Shall we look at the Bank of Cyprus

bankofcyprus
/wiki/Bank_of_Cyprus

Go up to Green lanes tonight and tell your fellow Ldners of Cypriot descent their money is safe and guaranteed.Wake up and smell the coffee the, this whole debacle was of German planning. They could have easily accepted the national bond scheme proposed.

There are over 3,000 British military personnel and civil servants, thats the British tax payer paying for the 20% levy as UK Gov cover losses.
jon357 67 | 16,854
23 Mar 2013 #100
And of course the day traders made a killing out of the Europe-wide temporary drop in share prices both by shorting them quickly as soon as the news broke and from the brief bull market when things got back to normal.
Wroclaw Boy
23 Mar 2013 #101
Shall we look at the Bank of Cyprus

From that website:

No matter where they are in the world, the 11.000 people making up the Group share the vision of a more humane society, and have made a shared commitment - the commitment to benefit every community in which they operate.

For Bank of Cyprus staff, feeling responsible is a state of being, a way of doing things. It is part of our collective consciousness. From its establishment to the present day, the Group's main concern has been people.

At 30 September 2012, the Group's Total Assets amounted to €36,23 bn and the Shareholders' Funds were €2,31 bn. The Bank of Cyprus shares are listed on the Cyprus and Athens Stock Exchanges

What a crock of absolute dog turd, friggen hilarious.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
23 Mar 2013 #102
Putting money in a bank is not making a investment you mug...

Deposits over 100k are not guaranteed. I wouldn't have been caught by that BASIC fact so how does it make me a mug?

The mugs are the idiots who are going to lose 20% because 'deposits are not investments'.
OP poland_
23 Mar 2013 #103
It makes you a mug, because you are making out you have knowledge of a subject, you clearly don' fully understand. Sophisticated investors are NOT the middle income families caught up in the BOC levy, I for one feel for these people most will have worked hard for their money and they are watching it being stolen in front of their eyes, it may mean the difference of their children having a university education, a deposit on a new home or the wedding of their daughter. The BOC levy is unprecedented in Europe and now it is part of the EU banking future, it can effect any country or any bank in the EU.

Here is what Sophisticated investors have to say about the BOC levy. Analysts and politicians compared the bailout plan, the first to include a levy on deposits that were considered to be insured, to government-sponsored larceny, and said it would cause a run on banks across Europe, if not a full-fledged global crisis.

"The very nature of banking has been shaken to its roots with this decision, for banking depends upon trust," Dennis Gartman, the investor, wrote in a note to his clients. "Trust that has now been shattered; torn asunder, broken ... destroyed."

Jim O'Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, called the decision an "astonishing move" with "little thought of contagion to the rest of the euro zone, and indeed perhaps the world."

Mark J. Grant, a market commentator who has been predicting an economic apocalypse in Europe for years, went so far as to compare the terms of the bailout with "rape." He said: "Pay attention please. The European Union and the European Central Bank and the I.M.F. have just advocated the confiscation of private property for their own indulgence."

Then we have peterweg from Battersea, London. '

Deposits over 100k are not guaranteed. I wouldn't have been caught by that BASIC fact so how does it make me a mug? The mugs are the idiots who are going to lose 20% because 'deposits are not investments'.

peterweg 37 | 2,319
23 Mar 2013 #104
Yeah, right. Goldman (et al.) hate it.

What a ******* surprise. I'll happy tell every one of them to go **** themselves. Their opinions count for sweet FA.

Feel free to follow the sheep. Baaa!!

[quote]"The very nature of banking has been shaken to its roots with this decision, for banking depends upon trust," Dennis Gartman, the investor, wrote in a note to his clients. "Trust that has now been shattered; torn asunder, broken ... destroyed."

I guess he missed Iceland in 2008 and the judgment last year. Pretty much every single 'expert' did too. Because the decided to invent a story about Iceland to fit their fantasy's - much as they are doing now.

studiotendra.com/2012/12/29/what-is-actually-going-on-in-iceland

Bank deposits are not protected beyond the ability of the guarantor to pay. In a systemic banking crash there is NO guarantee. Ignorance of the law is no defense.

If you banked anywhere without realizing this, tough luck. Its been there in black and white for quite some time.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #105
Bank deposits are not protected beyond the ability of the guarantor to pay. In a systemic banking crash there is NO guarantee. Ignorance of the law is no defense.

Article 12 of Directive 94/19/EEC

Peterweg. you provide a personal blog of the siblings Baldur and Jenný about their design, illustration, and publishing experiments. You ask me to accept this source with authority, they are both design illustrators. for fecks sake. I am going to mention this for the last time, Iceland is not a member of the EU, nor does it use the single currency as tender, furthermore there is no oversight of Iceland by Brussels' financial' or ' legal' so back on topic.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
24 Mar 2013 #106
Article 12 of Directive 94/19/EEC

Judgment of EFTA SA . This clarifies exactly the law on whether EU requires a state to back the depositor protection scheme during a crash

eftacourt.int/images/uploads/16_11_Judgment.pdf

It says, if its not possible, a country does not have to back the depositor guarantee scheme and can treat on shore and offshore depositors different. In other words the guarantee is . optional

I am going to mention this for the last time, Iceland is not a member of the EU, nor does it use the single currency as tender,

Irrelevant, the ruling is on the application of EU law

furthermore there is no oversight of Iceland by Brussels' financial' or ' legal' so back on topic

The ruling by the EFTA Surveillance Authority covers EU application of banking law. UK is also not a member of the EZ, yet it, like Iceland has to follow EU directives. There is very strong oversight of the EEA by Brussels.

Look at that site - there is a large list of judgments enforcing EU law in the EEA. Every law the EU produces, the EEA has to follow to the letter. If they don't they are taken to court. If a judge rules on the application of those laws, it sets a precedent which will be very difficult to overcome.

Choose what you want to believe, but Cyprus is hitting depositors below 100K with 1% and it doesn't look like anyone is claiming its against EU law. The EFTA SA Icesave judgment backs that up.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #107
Each country has its own Financial supervisory authority, in Iceland it is the FME in the UK FSA. Through the Lamfalussy process in 2007 as a result of the financal crisis MiFID was intorduced as a working model of the 30 EEA.

Iceland is a unique case.

rikisend.is/fileadmin/media/skyrslur/speech_Arason_Iceland.pdf

Choose what you want to believe, but Cyprus is hitting depositors below 100K with 1% and it doesn't look like anyone is claiming its against EU law

You are lying Peterweg no vote has been agreed, they will vote this afternoon in Brussels, stop trying to twist information past and present to suit your own agenda.
bullfrog 6 | 602
24 Mar 2013 #108
The reality in Cyprus is the following:

1) for years, Cyprus banks have been home to a disproportionate amount of Russian deposits, thanks to a unique tax treaty between the 2 countries. Some (little) of this money is legitimate, most of it is not and is escaping Russian taxes through structures. The Cyprus government had been warned repeatedly by Europe to tighten its anti money laundering procedures.

2) Because of cultural proximity with Greece but also because they gave a superior yield (the riskier, the higher the yield), Cyprus banks have been investing those deposits in Greek bonds. When the latter country went down the drain, the bonds collapsed and the Cyprus banks got burnt hence the current situation.

Bottom line is that in all other European countries where banks made a mess (UK..), the people had to bear the brunt of the cost of saving them (through austerity..) . Why shouldn't it be the same in Cyprus? It is after the people who choose the goverment..
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #109
You mean the same way Swiss was place of choice for the US tax avoiders, until the US Gov put pressure on them. Pot calling kettle black - bullfrog.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
24 Mar 2013 #110
You are lying Peterweg no vote has been agreed, they will vote this afternoon in Brussels, stop trying to twist information past and present to suit your own agenda.

They include one that imposes a tax of less than 1% on all bank deposits, said Averof Neophytou, deputy head of the governing DISY party.

usatoday/story/money/business/2013 /03/22/cyprus-rescue-proposals-vote/2010109/

Actual I was mistaken, they are supposed to vote on the 1% this weekend (delayed til monday).

Is this a debate between agenda? if so what is your? Blame the EU for everything ?

Why would Brussels vote on on a Cypriot law, is that part of your agenda?

Iceland is a unique case.

Small Island with 7-8 times its GDP that crashes and can't honor its guarantee to its banking depositors?

Its not so unique anymore, is it?

Pot calling kettle black - bullfrog.

What has Switzerland got to do with it? Even if he's Swiss , two wrong don't make a right.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #111
Is this a debate between agenda? if so what is your? Blame the EU for everything ?

My agenda is simple operate within the laws stated.

The suggested levy on Bank of Cyrus depositors over 100,000 Euro has to considered acceptable as the Bank is now bankrupt, the reason for the bankruptcy I will leave to the civil cases to follow by depositors, against both the EU,CY and the directors of BOC.

Any levy against depositors of over 100,000 Euro of any other bank which is solvent is little more than organized theft.

Any levy against depositors in BOC or any other bank which is solvent under 100,000 Euros which have not failed is organized theft.

Blame the EU for everything ?

The disregard for rules by Trolka on Cyprus is imprudent in the short term and suicidal in the longer term. The European Union's claim to legitimacy rests on being a rules-based organisation. Treaty-based law is its foundation. The EU cannot derive its legitimacy - as some member state governments might do - from custom or culture, nor yet on allegiance to a charismatic leader. The rules are what matter, and without rules, the EU will be nothing.
bullfrog 6 | 602
24 Mar 2013 #112
You mean the same way Swiss was place of choice for the US tax avoiders,

No skin off my nose, I'm not Swiss but you should try to get more reliable sources than the Sun or the Daily Mail.. Switzerland never held more than ca 2% of US offshore assets, the bulk being evidently in the various Caribbean tax havens (Cayman, Bahamas..). Simple common sense, Warszawski, being based in Europe, if you had money to hide, would you cross the Atlantic to hide it??
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #113
No skin off my nose, I'm not Swiss but you should try to get more reliable sources than the Sun or the Daily Mail.

I didn't know your nationality was featured in the Sun or the Daily Mail. You learn something new everyday.

Switzerland never held more than ca 2% of US offshore assets, the bulk being evidently in the various Caribbean tax havens (Cayman, Bahamas..).

The Swiss banking secrecy, which dates back to a 1934 law that made it a crime to reveal a client's identity, has helped to turn Switzerland into the world's biggest tax haven and asset management centre, accounting for US$2 trillion ( of funds managed out of a worldwide total $7tn).

Simple common sense, Warszawski, being based in Europe, if you had money to hide, would you cross the Atlantic to hide it??

No, I would cross the Indian ocean to the Asean region.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
24 Mar 2013 #114
EU,CY and the directors of BOC.

Its entirely down to the Cyprus government as what laws they apply. The banking industry in Cyprus want the levy, the precise makeup they prefer is unknown. The EU have offered funds to bail out up to 100K for all depositors, what Cyprus does with that money is their problem.

The disregard for rules by Trolka on Cyprus is imprudent in the short term and suicidal in the longer term

As I have repeatedly explained, they have not broken the rules - you and most of the howling classes do know the rules. Ignorance of the law is no defense.

However, I agree that the fact they have made clear that the 100k guarantee is nothing of the sort is probably a bad thing.... If you care about the economies of the PIIGS.

I suspect the plan is to make the risks of banking in the south economies plan and take the consequences. I.e break the Euro.
pillager
24 Mar 2013 #115
The ECB could have easily made up the 6 billion euros without hurting its already too expensive currency. "Hard-working Germans" are not paying anything. In fact they probably hope to gain from capital flight to their "safer" economy. Additionally, Cyprus (and Greece as well) is too small to sustain any heavy industry like Germany. But classical economists will tell Cyprus not to build cars and buy them from Germany anyway - so what economic activity are they supposed to pursue?

The banking sector was oversized, but not nearly as oversized as Luxembourg's - where Germans put all of their money - so their demands to cut it down are extremely hypocritical. Remember the Morgenthau Plan which was designed to de-industrialize Germany and return it to a pastoral state? The plan was binned when it was determined that it would be too painful for the population. That is exactly what the EU (Germany) is doing to southern Europe.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #116
Its entirely down to the Cyprus government as what laws they apply.

No its is not, if it was down to CY Gov, they would just ask for 10 Billion Euro's. Trolka have told CY Gov to raise 5.6 Bilion Euros themselves before anymore bailout money, thats the reason for the bank levy.

The banking industry in Cyprus want the levy, the precise makeup they prefer is unknown.

No the bank workers of Bank of Cyprus are pushing the CY Gov to accept the levy, so they can keep their jobs.

The EU have offered funds to bail out up to 100K for all depositors, what Cyprus does with that money is their problem.

There is no levy below 100,000 Euro, so no money to be paid back.
Palivec - | 380
24 Mar 2013 #117
Luxembourg is neither broke nor does it ask for money. And surely would the ECB act differently in this case, since the banks of Luxembourg are system-relevant, whereas the banks of Cyprus aren't. But you can be sure that countries like Germany or the Netherlands or France would love to treat them just like Cyprus. Ever noticed how German ministers bash the Swiss all the time?

But not the EU de-industrializes Southern Europe, they do it on their own. Cyprus for instance was never industrialized. They turned their country into an offshore tax haven, which isn't the same. And instead of investing the return wisely, like diversifying their economy, they expanded their public sector. And Greece? They received more Marshall funds per capita than many other countries in Europe, and they are one of the main recipients of EU structural subsidies, and yet apart from shipbuilding (in the past) they aren't competitive anywhere... not even agribusiness, despite the climate and endless subsidies since the 70s.

And of course Northern Europeans will pay the 10 billions. They are the net contributors in Europe. But you can't expect that Northern European taxes save a business model that wants to hurt these economies. That's especially hard to stomach for Protestants, who cherish frugality and hard work.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #118
Well Luxembourg, Belgium,Netherlands are all part of Benelux.The Benelux Economic Union involves an intergovernmental cooperation. Decisions are taken unanimously. France, Germany and Benelux are the founding members of what is now the EU.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
24 Mar 2013 #119
There is no levy below 100,000 Euro, so no money to be paid back.

They have a vote on a bill to cut 1% on Monday.
OP poland_
24 Mar 2013 #120
So what went wrong?The eurozone did.Last year, Cypriot banks suffered heavy losses when the eurozone forced a restructuring of Greek sovereign debt, wiping around €4.5 billion off the balance sheets. Of course, Cyprus had taken this hit for "the team", in the sense it had been encouraged to support Greek bonds to counter the debt crisis.

So it was the Greek crisis, and all the mistakes made there by the eurozone and the IMF, that triggered this crisis and a new determination in Frankfurt, Berlin and Washington to restrict the size of bailouts, particularly when used to recapitalise banks.

What does the eurozone want? The eurozone and IMF is insisting that the bailout must be kept to 100 per cent of Cypriot GDP - that's around €17 billion.Because of the size of Cypriot banks, worth €68 billion, with up to €20bn in Russian investments, the eurozone and IMF wants those assets raided and the Laiki bank put into receivership. Cyprus must find up to €7 billion.

The Bank of Cyprus, the island's biggest, will be hit by a 20pc raid on deposits over €100,000 and might have to take on over €9 billion owed to the ECB.

This has led to a (so-far) unique and controversial raid on bank deposits, even though the initial idea of taxing protected deposits under €100,000 has been dropped.

If the eurozone and IMF get their way then Cyprus will be the first country where banks have been forced to pay a big share of the burden.It could become a model for the future and the eurozone feels safe because Cyprus's small size as just 0.2pc of the European economy means the risk of contagion is limited. Financial markets have so far been calm compared to previous episodes of the euro crisis.


Home / Law / Bank accounts taxed by up to 10%. Can it happen in Poland?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.