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A father (foreigner) of a Polish child. How to protect my/daughter's rights?



Kiltmaker 3 | 20    
23 Feb 2011  #1

Hi,

I was in realtionships with a Polish citizen and we've got a baby girl (born in Poland). Both mother and daughter live in Poland and are Polish nationals. I live in the UK and I am citizen of non-EU country (ex Soviet Union). I'm officially registered as a father in my daughter's birth certificate.

The mother of my child broke up with me last month and found a new man already. We still keep relationships, I speak to my daughter, and coming to visit her. My ex says that I will always be a father of our child, so can see her as much as I want. So, no issues at the moment.

I've been transferring money to my ex both when we were "together" and post break-up (for my daughter). Initially, when we were "together" it was cash (so no documneted proof), now (after break-up) I transfer money via PayPal (so there is some evidence, i.e. account statement). The current monthly amount is 1200 PLN. My ex is not happy with those money and wants more. Both hee and her new boyfriend are working and have income.

Saying that, we do not have any written agreement on my rights, responsibilities, or money.

My aim: I want to be a father to my daughter, I want to have contact with her, I want her to visit me on holidays, etc.

While everything is fine right now, it is all not defined and all depends on my ex's mood.

The situation is changing in the way that my ex would change her mind and might start using our daughter as an argument: she could deny me a right to visit her, she may demand more money, etc. I want to protect myself and my daughter in this situation.

What should be my actions now? I try to keep good relationships with my ex, but cannot satisfy her every financial need (and don't want to!). Is amount of money I'm sending reasonable? (One of my Polish friends pays 500 PLN for his daughter post-divorce).

Should I get any kind of written agreement (involving lawers)? What is she refuses to sign anything?

Should I try avoid the court? What decision could court issue in our case (custody and support)? Or maybe the court is best option for me as it will give me defined rights towards my daughter? Or how badly the Polish courts treat foreign fathers?

Please advise. I'm lost. Love my daughter and don't have problems right now. However, realistically expect some in future.

Thanks.


peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,080    
23 Feb 2011  #2

The current monthly amount is 1200 PLN. My ex is not happy with those money and wants more

It is pretty good amount pcm.

Should I try avoid the court?

no, probably alimony will be less than your voluntary support.

Or maybe the court is best option for me as it will give me defined rights towards my daughter?

It will be sign of trust lack. When she deny you a right to visit your child you can take the action.
poland_    
23 Feb 2011  #3

Should I get any kind of written agreement (involving lawers)? What is she refuses to sign anything?

An agreement, with your responsibilities and rights, signed by a notary would be a good start.
JaneDoe 5 | 114    
23 Feb 2011  #4

Should I get any kind of written agreement (involving lawers)?

Yes! ASAP!

What is she refuses to sign anything?

She will. A lawyer will know what and how to do it.

It may get nasty in the future, so better prepare yourelf and your daughter for that now. 1200 zl is pretty good money. She'll probably get less when signed in the court, but who knows.

Good luck!
George8600 10 | 643    
23 Feb 2011  #5

realistically expect some in future.

8
Harry 78 | 13,533    
24 Feb 2011  #6

The current monthly amount is 1200 PLN. My ex is not happy with those money and wants more. Both hee and her new boyfriend are working and have income.

That won't have much effect. How much are you earning (and could you earn)? That amount will tell the Polish court how much you should give. In your position I'd be tempted to send a recorded delivery letter offering to formalise your current offer and cc'ing the court on that offer.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,511    
24 Feb 2011  #7

Should I get any kind of written agreement (involving lawers)

Absolutely.

The current monthly amount is 1200 PLN

About 15% of your wage would be average.
If you want to pay more, put the extra in a savings account for her ( under your name ) for when she is older.

Good luck !
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20    
24 Feb 2011  #8

Thanks for your answers!

The amount of 1200 PLN was agreed after break-up when I thought she was a "poor" single mother and I still tried to help her. Now she is moving in with her new boyfriend (they are to rent a flat together) and therefore will be living all 3 of them: my ex, her new man, and my daughter.

As the situation changed (she is not a single mother anymore and have a man to take care of her), I want to cut the monthly amount to 800 PLN. I think it is fair amount to support a small child in this situation (i.e. when my ex adds 800 PLN for a child, it will mean the child's costs are 1600 PLN, which is even higher than some average salaries in small towns). I'd rather not give my ex more money than 800 PLN to her account. If I want to help more, I will put extra money in a savings account for my daughter (so I'd know she will get it, rather than her mother spends it on her new boyfriend).

Do you think 800 PLN is reasonable in this case? I want to minimize the "regular/mandatory" payments to my ex, and keep an extra for my daughter by myself (in a savings account).

Does anyone have any forms/templates for such an formal agreement with ex?
Does it have to be signed with a lawyer or notary?

Does anyone have contacts of a good English-speaking lawyer (with the specialization in the subject / family law), who can talk me through my options and (maybe) help with the formal agreement? Preferably Krakow area, but any other town (incl. Warsaw) is OK as long as the lawyer is good (as I think there are more good lawyers in Warsaw than in any other Polsih city).

Thanks.

Hi,

Anyone could recommend a good lawyer (family/children law) in Poland to talk to?
NomadatNet 1 | 457    
1 Mar 2011  #9

when I thought she was a "poor" single mother and I still tried to help her.

Before searching a lawyer, do you think you need a help?
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20    
2 Mar 2011  #10

Sorry, NomadatNet, what kind of help do you think I might need?
f stop 25 | 2,529    
2 Mar 2011  #11

How old is the child?
I would hold back with a lawyer until the mother actually does something to make a visit with your daughter difficult. Keep trying to work it out. Once lawyers are in, there is no way back.
OP Kiltmaker 3 | 20    
3 Mar 2011  #12

Thanks, f stop.

The child will be 2 years old this summer. I agree with you on holding back with lawyers (unless I do not have to or she initiates something "funny").
NomadatNet 1 | 457    
3 Mar 2011  #13

Sorry, NomadatNet, what kind of help do you think I might need?

Sometimes, spending money is much harder than making money, isn't it.
manali23    
21 Nov 2011  #14

Hi, I am a Brit living in Poland and I have been in court for alimenty ( maintenance, alimony ) She currently gets 350pln a month and we are going to court again for more money. I had to go to court to get access for my son and I have to pay for a flat I don't live in just to see my son, so at this time I pay 600 for the flat, 200 for the taxis for them to come and 350 for my son. the mother of my son won't let me see my son in my own home and doesn't realise that because I have to pay for these things I have no extra money for my son. She does not ask me for money and even when I have asked her if she needs anything she says my son needs nothing, so what to do. For anyone involved in the Polish court system, the system favours the mother and NOT the father,As a foreigner I feel we have less rights as it is said that because we are able to earn more money in our own countries we should leave our children and send money without seeing our kids. My Son's mum believes I should go back to the UK and send money but not see my son. For me this is disgusting.

If men are involved in this kind of situation, they should be very careful, I tried to keep everything peaceful and out of court as I knew it would be a mess but now I am in the system and my son is being damaged and it is all very painful.

Peter Olstyn- 1200 is alot of money and if she isn't happy then I'm sorry but you may have a very large amount of stress with your situation. Keep all proof of your payments and of what you buy for your daughter. Good luck with all and don't give up.

join my Facebook page facebook.com/pages/Fathers-who-care/323284167946
jamshaidakhtarpl 1 | 5    
12 Aug 2017  #15

Merged:

my wife wanted divorce after divorce can live in Poland on child basis????



my wife wanted divorce and I have karta pobyta till end of 2018. I am paying alimony regularly from augst 2015. my karta bobyta will finish end of 2018 so can I have applied residence card on child basis as father of baby. what are my Father rights here in poland???
Bieganski 12 | 793    
12 Aug 2017  #16

so can I have applied residence card on child basis as father of baby.

You had an anchor baby?
jamshaidakhtarpl 1 | 5    
12 Aug 2017  #17

not my 1st baby it is 2 years and 4 months now. what are my father rights. polish women are beautiful but to be honestly talking about my wife she will make mentally sick to child. how is possible for a child to broutht up without father, he will be sick?
Bieganski 12 | 793    
12 Aug 2017  #18

how is possible for a child to broutht up without father

It is so possible that people now take it for granted.

Single parent homes are very commonplace in the West and increasingly so amongst Polish women.

There is no social stigma anymore for a woman to have a child on her own (either out of wedlock or following a divorce). Women just move forward with the playacting that they are strong, independent, and can go it alone without a husband or father around. But they aren't actually strong but rather privileged.

You see, despite any religiosity attached to it, marriage is actually a legal contract. When you purportedly got married you actually entered into a threesome: you, your wife, and the Government.

Poland like many Western countries is very gynocentric. The Government is firmly on her side when it comes to deciding which one of you has rights.

Sure, you may have thought being a non-white male gave you entitlements back in your homeland and even sympathy especially as you are regarded as a minority in the West. You may have thought too that you could play the system by having a marriage and child so as to secure a better life for yourself while foolishly believing that you would still be respected simply for being a man. But not so. Women, particular white women, hold the trump card in the West because it was given to them by successive leftist Governments. Who put those leftist Governments into power? Women. Statistically women vote in more numbers and more often than men. Women vote so they can secure more benefits for themselves (as well as their bastard children) at the expense of men, corrosion of the family unit, and decay in social cohesion.

It's been this way for decades.

They know it and you are now finding this out for yourself the hard way.
jon357 67 | 12,739    
12 Aug 2017  #19

hat are my Father rights here in poland???

You should speak with a specialist immigration lawyer on this - they will be able to give accurate and up-to-date advice as well as make any necessary court filings. Do not, repeat do not, leave it to a. the last minute, or b. chance.



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