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Why in the world there are three ways to write simple U ?!?!


microwac
20 Dec 2009 #1
Why in the world there are three ways to write simple U ?!?!

£
Ó
U

They all are READ exactly the same.

Who is so completely insane to know which U to use when they hear
a word that contains this vocal U ?

If I think about SH , things get more crazy:

You write in Polish SH:

SZ
S
Ś
Ż
RZ

Are you people INSANE? Who thought of such complete crazy language?

Are you trying to kill your own people with this insane grammar?

I live here for 4 years and still can't understand how drunk was
the guy who created polisz language ?!?!
vetala - | 382
20 Dec 2009 #2
...WHAT? How is '£' similar to 'U'? It's a completely different sound!

SZ S Ś Ż RZ

These are not similar in the slightest!

-edit

You've been living here for 4 years and you can't hear the difference? Unbelievable!
OP microwac
20 Dec 2009 #3
KRAKÓW is read krakuv
słodko is read suodko
turku is read turku

they are the exactly the same.

SZIE is same as SIE same as ŚIE same as both SH
from PRZEPRASZAM

and I know that you are just teasing me...
nobody can tell e a rational difference...

maybe just a self created fantasy difference :))
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #4
Well, let me correct you if I may. Ó and u are pronounced in the same way through linguistic evolution, e.g bułki and gówno. Although I haven't considered all the words with such combinations, I would conjecture that ó is followed by a solid consonant whereas u by a weak sound like ł, e.g kułka, bułka and pierdułka.

£ is a different sound, like the English W.

As for SH, it can be SZ or Ś, not the others. Ż and RZ can be complicated but it comes through practising it, e.g może to morze

Kraków is not read Krakuv at all, Krakoov if anything.

Turku is toorku

Śie doesn't exist, się does
OP microwac
20 Dec 2009 #5
Sean, wake up....

PRZEPRASZAM

the first RZ is read SH all the way !!!

POLIZ MNIE

the Z is also read SH all the way !!!!

Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
20 Dec 2009 #6
Only U and Ó are the same... the rest isn't... If you don't hear the difference between Sz and Rz you should go back to the very basic listening exercises...
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
20 Dec 2009 #7
grzegorj.w.interia.pl/gram/en/gram02.html

...enjoy.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #8
Well, if you have any knowledge of linguistic and phonetics at all, you will know why. Does English behave perfectly rationally?

Let me ask you this. Off the top of your head, how many different sounds does 'OUGH' have? How would you teach the 'ough sound' to students of English?

Natural speech evolves. It should be PSHEPRASHAM but many Poles say it more as PSHIPRASHAM. All the way? Nah, you are wrong, trust me!

Poliż is not SH but distinctly ż
Vincent 9 | 803 Moderator
20 Dec 2009 #9
Poliż is not SH but distinctly ż

Seanus wouldn't a voiced ż not turn into a voiceless sz at word ending?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #10
It should but I have heard many Poles say it more like ż. If it is followed by a word like sobie then it will be more like SH in that case. Poliż sobie like poleeshsobie, like one word almost and thus ellision.

Imagine a ż followed by a d, poliż dupę, would it sound more like SH or Ż, I'd say Ż.
Floripa 3 | 39
20 Dec 2009 #11
Gaa

Thanks for the pronunciation guide. Brilliant.....I'll do my best.
Borrka 37 | 594
20 Dec 2009 #12
I'm ready to offer a Nobel prize nomination to somebody who can explain different pronunciation of "h" and "ch" .
But I've heard there are some nuances.

BTW, I'm a Warsaw born Polish native speaker with many years of experience LOL.
So take it easy guys - no sense in our spelling.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #13
You'd better go looking for that award, Borrka, as that difference has been done successfully on another thread here ;) ;)
scottie1113 7 | 898
20 Dec 2009 #14
how many different sounds does 'OUGH' have?

Nine. I showed this in class last week. It always makes them crazy but they enjoy it. So do I. And try to figure out the logic in pronouncing comfortable. By comparison, Polish pronunciation is easy. Sadly, not true for the grammar.
Vincent 9 | 803 Moderator
20 Dec 2009 #15
Imagine a ż followed by a d, poliż dupę, would it sound more like SH or Ż, I'd say Ż

Thanks for explaining Seanus. Will confirm that next time I see my polish friend. Might try to find another "d" word though ;)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
20 Dec 2009 #16
different pronunciation of "h" and "ch"

"H" used to be voiced, "ch" unvoiced. Czech keeps this distinction very clear. For some reason, Poles stopped pronouncing the voiced "h" approx. 30 - 40 years ago (I can still remember it being used by some when I was tiny). Being half Czech, I used the voiced "h" when speaking Polish till my teens, when I got laughed at by my peers for this and gradually dropped it. ;-)
Borrka 37 | 594
20 Dec 2009 #17
I used the voiced "h" when speaking Polish till my teens, when I got laughed at by my peers for this and gradually dropped it. ;-)

I know the difference is still to hear for people from the Eastern part of Poland.
Anyway, you are my Nobel Prize nominee LOL.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #18
I got 7, Scottie. 9? Are you sure? Do you remember them? The schwa is awkward for them too, a comfortable vegetable.

Vincent, no problem. Please don't take my words as gospel, they are just based on listening to Poles as is much of my Polish.

Poliż dywan, LOL. Lick the carpet :) The ż rolls beautifully into the d
vetala - | 382
20 Dec 2009 #19
I remember learning about the difference in pronounciation in different regions in Poland on one of my linguistics lectures. So it all depends I guess.

I also learned that there are three ways of pronouncing 'e' in the English language and pretty much from anywhere you can expect a surprise attack from 'shwa'. Phonetically, English makes much less sense than Polish. How the hell does 'knicht' become 'nait'?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #20
Knight become night you mean? Just like knife becomes nife ;) ;)
vetala - | 382
20 Dec 2009 #21
I meant the phonetic pronounciation. You don't pronounce 'k','g' or 'h' but you add 'a' for some reason. In Polish nearly every sound is transcribed and only sometimes one or two letters are pronounced a tad bit differently.
ewelinaq2
20 Dec 2009 #22
hey guys

that's only for fanatics of grammar, or for regular people also?

regular people cannot care less if there is any difference between the history of ó and u,
that 500 years ago it was a way or another...

how you WRITE something it should be always easy to read,
and when you read smth it should be ALWAYS easy to write it.

In polish it is a pure hell to read and write things

each rule has thousands of exceptions

numerals are not normal

genders are crazy

when will this old unadapted language will ever evolve ?

Przepraszam you read sz and rz the same... the first sign that something is REALLY WRONG with polish language!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #23
Why a and not igh? Those little differences matter :)

How many names can we expect, microwave?

Przepraszam, LOL. You say potato (potayto) and I say potato (potAto) :) You say tomato (tomayto) and I say tomato (tomAto). Get it?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
20 Dec 2009 #24
Przepraszam you read sz and rz the same... the first sign that something is REALLY WRONG with polish language!

Yeah, especially in words like "drzewo" and "pszenica".
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Polish language, you can take it or leave it. I have studied Latin, Italian, German, and English, and dabbled in Japanese and Croatian, and I obviously know Czech and Polish. Apart from Latin and Croatian, not one of those languages has a logical and easy spelling. There are always rules to memorise, and most of the time, loads of exceptions too. And AFAIR Croatian is only easy to spell if you know the spoken language, because their spelling follows pronunciation exactly, e.g. "hlep" - "hleba", so no easy assumptions there either.

BTW, I know I am feeding a troll here, but I felt like bragging about my considerable linguistic abilities ;-)
scottie1113 7 | 898
21 Dec 2009 #25
I got 7, Scottie. 9? Are you sure? Do you remember them? The schwa is awkward for them too, a comfortable vegetable.

though, thought, through, cough, rough,bough, thorough, lough (like Scottish loch), and my favorite: hiccough. When I prounce it hiccup (both are in the dictionary) my students always ask where the p is. I just smile.

Seanus, is it nine?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
21 Dec 2009 #26
This is the BEST pronunciation guide available on the net.


Bzibzioh
21 Dec 2009 #27
She has slight Eastern Polish accent (esp. when pronouncing sz like in cisza)
caprice49 4 | 224
21 Dec 2009 #28
the first RZ is read SH all the way !!!

Never. You need to adjust your linguistic ear.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
21 Dec 2009 #29
She has slight Eastern Polish accent

Maybe that's why I like the way she speaks.. hehe. :)
p....
21 Dec 2009 #30
I know that English has been a sort of misery for many people, so is German, French, Spanish, Chinese, etc.... one thing comes to mind - whenever you learn a foreign language it must be all in one - hearing, speaking, spelling, grammar etc. otherwise there will always be sth missing in your broadcast... when you learn it all together, with time it makes sense.

morzna siem pszecierz zawże sprubowadź domyśledź, co ałtor miau na myźli alpo nażekać ile wlezie...
tylko po co kaleczyć obcy język?


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