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Slavic languages words similarities with Polish


OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
27 May 2015  #121
You can say "mnogo" in Polish, but it isn't a commonly used word. Dużo, wiele - ok, but mnogo?

Wiele is a German borrowing. Diużyj in old Russian means very strong and big (usually about a person.).
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
27 May 2015  #122
Indeed it is. "Wiele"> "viel(e)". Right on the money!
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
27 May 2015  #123
It seems that I quoted an item from a list that didn't contain Polish versions of any words, but English, Czech and Russian ones. My fault.

But that's Czech and your comment was about Polish. Don't you know the difference between Czech and Polish?..

A male (and only male) cat in Polish is kocur. Are there similar ones in Russian?

No.
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
27 May 2015  #124
Vlad, could "kotyczka" be Russian as well, or only Polish?
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
  27 May 2015  #125
Not in modern Russian. An old Russian word for cat is "kotka" or "kot'ka". A modern diminutive is kosziećka for a female cat and kotik for male. Kotionok is a kitten.
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
27 May 2015  #126
Most enlightening, Vlad! Many thanks:-)

I have noticed a similarity between Polish and Russian diminutives, however. Seems the Poles though also go slightly overboard on the subject of intimacy, e.g. Małgorzata < Małgosia < Gosia/Gosiu! < Gocha/Gochu! etc..
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
27 May 2015  #127
Yes. Lienka, Ania as well.
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
27 May 2015  #128
...Anna, Annuszka, Annusia.... plus Polish has that Vocative case, no longer extant in modern Russian, I'm told:-)

Suckered into the same trap again, I fearLOL

"Anna" "Anno", Anniuszka!" "Anniusia"....

It's late and I'm getting sloppy (but still no excuse!)

I recently learned that Russian "karadash" is derived from Turkish. Polish "Ołówek" is probably pure Slavic?
lol
kpc21 1 | 763    
27 May 2015  #129
Don't you know the difference between Czech and Polish?..

I know the difference, I didn't notice that that was referring to Czech, not to Polish :)

Vlad, could "kotyczka" be Russian as well, or only Polish?

Did you mean "kociczka" (a diminutive from "kocica")? There is nothing like "kotyczka" in Polish. I have even checked in Google and it finds only people with such a surname - but no uses of this word as a normal common noun in Polish.

About Turkish word origins - in Russian tea is "czaj", the same as in Turkish. And I know that in many European languages the name of this drink is either similar to English "tea", German "Tee" etc. or to the Turkish/Russian "chay". Polish is here unusual with its own word "herbata" :)

The Polish word for a carpet - "dywan" - also, I think (as far as I remember), comes from Turkish. But doesn't the same word in Russian mean something different? From primary school Russian lessons I remember a poem for children about a lady who was travelling and took many strange things as a luggage (the title was "Sdawała dama bagaż"), and she had also a "diwan" with her. As far as I remind it myself, it wasn't a carpet, but something different (although, of course, also irrational).

I have checked, and "diwan" in Russian means... a sofa :) In Polish, as I have already written, "dywan" means a carpet. But a sofa is even more irrational to take as a luggage than a carpet, so knowing the Russian words you have yet more fun reading this poem :)

I was once on a camp, where the meals were prepared by a cook who was from Slovakia or Czech Republic (I don't remember this exactly). And he called a glass pot with tea "czajnik". In Polish "czajnik" is a kettle. Such a pot, like the one that this cook was calling "czajnik", is in Polish "dzbanek" :)

Sometimes when Polish children are learning writing, and they have problems with ortography of the words where for example rz doesn't change in r in any of its forms (it's called an "exception"), parents or teachers are explaining that for example rzeka is in Russian "rjeka" (which is, BTW, AFAIK, an improper pronounciation, it should be pronounced "rika", at least they learned me it so later on, on Russian lessons - is it true, Vlad?) so that when the child remembers the Russian translation, it's easier to remember that the Polish word should be written "rzeka" and not "żeka". Another example might be "morze", which, AFAIK, is supposed to be in Russian "morje".
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
  27 May 2015  #130
''Rika'' is a river in Ukrainian, not Russian. Sea in Russian is ''morie'' and river - ''rieka'' if we use Polish spelling.
kpc21 1 | 763    
28 May 2015  #131
In Polish something that is spelled "rjeka" and "rieka" has exactly the same pronounciation.

To be honest - Polish could exist with "i" only, without "j" and it would work :)

See that for example the word "radio" in Polish was initially spelled "radjo". The spelling changed after some time.
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
28 May 2015  #132
In Polish something that is spelled "rjeka" and "rieka" has exactly the same pronounciation.

Yes, it seems...
yaizindiya 1 | 10    
28 May 2015  #133
Amusing how many pseudo-linguists we have in here. Whether anybody likes it or not, the Slavic languages are indeed far closer to one another than Germanic languages are, and in many cases, arguably even closer than the Romance languages. So yes, Polish is far closer to Russian than even Dutch to German.

Just to give a bit of context, I am just a beginner in Russian myself (from a language learner's perspective). However, it is amazing that even with my very rudimentary Russian, I could understand or at least make sense of some very basic Polish sentences. I have no doubt that a native Russian speaker would do exponentially better. I just don't understand the rabid xenophobia and illogical harangues of people like that Wulkan person in this thread, who are dead against the idea that Polish should even be included in the same bracket as Russian. Hilarious!

And on a side note, no offence but I find the Slavic languages (whichever I've had occasion to listen to more than in passing) aurally appealing in the following order (from most beautiful to least beautiful) - Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Serbian/Croatian, Macedonian/Bulgarian, Slovak, Polish, and then Czech. The soft sounds in Russian/Belarusian/Ukrainian especially appeal to me in terms of melodiousness.
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
28 May 2015  #134
Of the two languages, Russian on the one hand, has borrowed comparatively less from, say, Latin, in contrast with Polish(..which is in no wise to initimate that Russians hasn't also borrowed plenty!), preferring to use more of her own native "Slavic" roots, cf. Polish "literatura" vs. Russian "slovonictvo", or some such construction:-)

Russian aspects are almost identical with Polish, as near as I can tell.
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
30 May 2015  #135
English_Polish - English_Russian
Cloud_Chmura - Cloudy(person)_Chmuryj
Curse_Klatwa - Oath_Kliatwa
Citizens_Obywatele - Inhabitants_Obywatieli

Groin - Pachwina - Pach
Reptiles - Gady - Gady (archaic)
Sick - Chory - Chworyj (archaic)

If - Jeżeli - Jeżeli
Windy - Wietrzny - Wietriennyj

Could somebody reveal to me origins of Polish word "wykidajlo" - a bouncer? The same as Russian wyszybala. In Russian wykidat' means "through away something" for example garbage. Is there a similar word in Polish or this is a borrowing?
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
31 May 2015  #136
must be a borrowing from Ukrainian or Belarussian
OP Vlad1234 10 | 465    
1 Jun 2015  #137
What about Polish word ''gospodarka"? What is origins? In Belarussian gospodar=mister. In Russian, Serbian gospodin = mister, lord.
kpc21 1 | 763    
  1 Jun 2015  #138
The German word Wirtschaft has the same construction. Gospodarz in Polish ist der Wirt in German (and host in English).

The question is what's the origin of the word gospodarz :)

What may be interesting here is Bogurodzica - the oldest Polish known poetry text. This is a religious song. There is - let's say - a legend, that just before the battle of Grunwald all the Polish knights sang this song in a chorus together.

literat.ug.edu.pl/bgrdzc/01.htm

The beginning is:

Bogurodzica, dziewica, Bogiem sławiena Maryja!

Twego syna, Gospodzina, matko zwolena Maryja,

Interesting is the word in bold. Gospodzin meant in the past the same as now Pan - Lord (which in religious texts mean just the God).

Don't even try to translate this, it's a very old-Polish text and even for Poles it's virtually impossible to understand without additional explanations and translations to the modern Polish.
Lyzko 19 | 5,776    
1 Jun 2015  #139
....and then there's "gospodin" = "Mr." and "gospozha" = "Mrs." or "Ms" in Russian. I've been told however that this is rare nowadays. Russians used to be addressed as "Garazhin!" or "Citizen", but today, just the patronymics/matronymics will suffice!

Some chap named Daniel Bunic from Prague, I think, did a thesis (in German!) on exactly this most fascinating linguistic area. It's available on line:-)
R.U.R.    
3 Jun 2015  #140
LYZKO :
Of the two languages, Russian on the one hand, has borrowed comparatively less from, say, Latin, in contrast with Polish

Russian borrowed Latin words mainly from Polish.

Latin words sound almost alike in the two languages :

polish : KALKULACJA - russian REWOLUCIJA
polish : REWOLUCJA - russian REWOLUCIJA

polish ending : -cja - russian ending : -cija

sorry :
polish KALKULACJA - russian KALKULACIJA
jon357 65 | 13,934    
3 Jun 2015  #141
Remember that much of that is about orthography - as you perhaps know there are different conventions for transcribing from Cyrillic. When transcribing that word into English, the i is largely redundant.
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
3 Jun 2015  #142
it's not about the difference but similarity - Polish was the first language that the -tio ending of Latin changed into -cja and Russians borrowed the convention (slightly changing the ending to suit their ways of pronounciation)
R.U.R.    
3 Jun 2015  #143
Lyzko:
Not only the Russians, Polonius:-) The Croats, Serbs and other Southern Slavs constantly tease the Polish for their hissing sibilant combos

Some Russians told me that the sound of the spoken Polish language resembles them the sound of calm rain.

The sound of rain is one of the most relaxing sounds in existence. The sound of rain can really help one calm down.
Love the sound of rain, it's so relaxing, Enjoy the Polish language !

PS. I ,for example, find it tiresome to listen to the spoken German or Chinese language for a long time
NocyMrok    
3 Jun 2015  #144
What may be interesting here is Bogurodzica - the oldest Polish known poetry text.

Here it is. 1507. Written in Polish:

Polish text
Polonius3 1,001 | 12,489    
  3 Jun 2015  #145
Interesting! I wonder why this text reads slawjona and it is usually transcribed as sławiena?.
kpc21 1 | 763    
  3 Jun 2015  #146
The version from this scan comes from the times when Polish didn't have any rules how to spell it. Nobody was writing then in Polish, even here it's is just a text of a song included in a Latin text.

Maybe the version "sławiena" appeared later, when the Polish ortography - although different than now - was already defined.

A more interesting thing is that here it begins as "Bogarodzica" (or rather Bogarodzijcza, but let's neglect these ortography issues). Boga rodzica. God's woman parent (the word "rodzica" isn't currently used, but this is its literal meaning; I don't know if in that times the word "matka" already existed).

In the "current" version of this text it's Bogurodzica. Rodzica (komu?) Bogu. I have read that in that times celownik (accusative) was used instead of dopełniacz (genitive), hence this form in this text. But it seems that in the original version it looked exactly how it should look now...

BTW, what is this letter between a and v in this "sławiona" (or rather "Sla...vijona") in this text? Or in "dzije...vijcza"?
NocyMrok    
  3 Jun 2015  #147
BTW, what is this letter between a and v in this "sławiona" (or rather "Sla...vijona") in this text? Or in "dzije...vijcza"?

I think there's none and it's just the way the letter "a" is done. Still, don't quote me on this one. Anyways... This may clear things a little:

Transliteration

Bogv rodzicza dzewicza bogem slawena maria
U twego syna gospodzina matko swolena maria
Siszczi nam spwczi nam Kyrieleyson
Twego dzela krzcziczela boszicze Uslisz glosi
naplen misli czlowecze Slisz modlitwo yosz
nosimi A dacz raczi gegosz prosimi a naswecze
zbozni pobith posziwocze raski przebith kyrieleyson.

Transcription

Bogurodzica dziewica1, Bogiem sławiena2 Maryja,
U twego Syna Gospodzina3 matko zwolena4, Maryja!
Zyszczy nam5, spu<ś>ci nam6.
Kyrieleison7.

Twego dziela Krzciciela8, bożycze9,
Usłysz głosy, napełń myśli10 człowiecze.
Słysz11 modlitwę, jąż nosimy12,
A dać raczy13, jegoż14 prosimy:
A na świecie zbożny15 pobyt,
Po żywocie ra<j>ski przebyt16.
Kyrieleison.

Explanation(Legend)

1Bogurodzica Dziewica... Maryja - formy mianownikowe użyte w funkcji wołacza; 2sławiona ze względu na Boga (którego zrodziła); 3Pana; 4wybrana; 5pozyskaj dla nas; 6daj, przekaż nam (twego Syna); 7Panie, zmiłuj się; 8dla twego Chrzciciela (św. Jana); 9synu Boga (wołacz od słowa bożyc - syn Boga); 10spełń myśli, pragnienia; 11wysłuchaj; 12którą zanosimy, odprawiamy; 13racz; 14czego, o co; 15pomyślny, dostatni; także: pobożny; 16wieczne bytowanie w raju.
Polonius3 1,001 | 12,489    
3 Jun 2015  #148
I notice that no diacritics (ł, ę, ż, ś) are seen in the original. Also the German eszet ß is used as well as a Y umlaut (Ÿ). But of course back then everything was in statu nascendi. A century later things slowly started falling into place.
kpc21 1 | 763    
  3 Jun 2015  #149
Transliteration.

This is from a yet another handwriting :) And it seems to have some errors, for example "w" in "spwczi" doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's "spvsczi" or something like this, where "v" means "u", like in the past in Latin where there was no difference between U and V in writing (hence the English name of the letter W - "double U", and the Polish name - "wu" or "vu").

This strange letter (similar to a current lowercase "z", but in that "font" "z" looks differently, a bit like "3") doesn't seem to be a part of a lowercase "a". It appears also after other letters.
Pakistan_Lahore - | 19    
6 May 2016  #150
[moved from]
German is a difficult language, French is much easier than German. I don't know, many of my colleagues told me about that. Later I tried to learn German too and went to the Goethe Institute. Hallo, Wie gehts, this is what I still remembered and the verb position is mostly on the 2nd position. Just like "gehen", whereas in English, I can decide the position of verb. Believe me English is the easiest foreign language or 2nd language. I have learned French at school, Bonjur, Madam etc, it is also very soft, poet, easy language, but I have never showed my interest. Polish and Russian are similar in many expects. Many words are similar to polish language. You can also find many German word in Polish language, because of the 2nd WW, where German captured most of the Poland from one side and Russian from the other side. People from Pakistan are also not perfect in English, they are just like Polish people in many aspects. Both country are religious, have their cultures, traditions have family systems etc. We tried to learn or copy a nation, we copied mostly Americans, whereas Polish too. American, UK they are cool people. Americans are very friendly. UK are rude, kind and straight forward people. But due to politics many things are changing very quickly. If there would be no politics in the world, world would be in a great peace.


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