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Poland in different languages?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Sep 2008  #1
Can anyone add to this list of names for Poland:
Poland, Polska, Polsko, Polen, Polin, Polonia, Pologne, Lengyel, Porando (Japanese?)
miranda
28 Sep 2008  #2
Lechistan
Guest
28 Sep 2008  #3
An Pholain
Jova - | 172
28 Sep 2008  #4
Польша
rock - | 460
28 Sep 2008  #5
Turkish : Polonya
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Sep 2008  #6
I thought Lechistan was Turkish?
rock - | 460
28 Sep 2008  #7
''Lehistan'' was historical name of ''Polonya'' for Turks ın Ottoman times. Maybe until 19. century.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Sep 2008  #8
Porando in Japanese, yes. A' Phólainn too, similar to the above

Lehastan, Lenkija, Pollando, Poalen, Puola, Polónia, Gwlad Pwyl, Polonya, Polija, Poola, Bolanda, Polijska, Lengyelorszag, Polandia, Polin etc etc

I gave my GF a bag which was given to me as a present. I've just read from that. A couple I knew but many newies. It has all of the above plus some more.
Jova - | 172
28 Sep 2008  #9
Lengyelorszag

It's Hungarian, isn't it? I'm really looking forward to learning this language. It's fascinating! So different! :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Sep 2008  #10
Yeah, quite a language to hear, like one long sentence. The grammar is so complicated. I had a student who spoke it fluently. All power to you learning it, I think the only way to really learn this language is the immersion approach. It could be a lifetime's work if u take a piecemeal approach.
Marek 4 | 867
1 Oct 2008  #11
Hungarian is also far more inflected than any of the Slavic languages, having a staggering 32 working cases in normal use!!!

Polish with a mere seven pales by comparison-):)-:)
osiol 55 | 3,922
1 Oct 2008  #12
Anyone mentioned Gwlad Pwyl? (Cymraeg)

Hungarian is also far more inflected than any of the Slavic languages

Welsh has mutations - changing the first letter of a word according to grammatical case.
i_love_detroit 1 | 69
1 Oct 2008  #13
Bolan - Cantonese ;) (don't ask me to write it in actual Cantonese letters ;))
Wyspianska
1 Oct 2008  #15
Lengyelorszag

wtf haaa what language is that and how is that similar in any way to POLSKA lol
osiol 55 | 3,922
1 Oct 2008  #16
As much as Magyarország has to do with Węgry or Hungary.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
1 Oct 2008  #17
Look above at Jova's posting, Wyspi
Bartolome 2 | 1,085
1 Oct 2008  #18
Al-Wolskahiyyah Al-Katholikiyyah Al-Rydzykiyyah in Mohair-ish.
Bondi 4 | 142
5 Oct 2008  #20
It's as simple as it is:

lengyel = Polak, Polka; polski, polska, polskie (Pole; Polish)
ország = kraj (country, land)
Lengyelország = Polska(Poland)

(We also use polyák [pojak (poy-ah-k)], but today it may have a little bit of a derogatory sense, just as Madziar in Polish.)

32 cases? (Hmm, is it really that many?) I still think it's nothing compared to the struggle of Polish cases with all the nifty masculine (ziwotny/nieziwotny!), feminine, neuter, plural masculine, plural other genders..... If you take that, you'll easily get about 7×6 cases! :o)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
6 Oct 2008  #21
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Hungarian an "aglutinative" language (like Japanese or Turkish) as opposed to inflective languages like Polish or Czech? Which means that each particular piece of grammatical info is conveyed by a different suffix. E.g. the Polish ending "-ły" as in poszły, przeczytały, conveys 3 bits of info: gender, tense, and number. Hungarian would have 3 different suffixes stuck on top of each other to convey the same message. Bondi? Did they teach me wrong?
mafketis 20 | 7,169
6 Oct 2008  #22
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Hungarian an "aglutinative" language (like Japanese or Turkish) as opposed to inflective languages like Polish or Czech?

Technically languages aren't aglutinative, only particular structures are.

It's true that in Hungarian there are more aglutinative structures than in Polish which has more inflected structures than Hungarian but both kinds of structures are found in both languages. Just the overall percentages differ.

But Lengyelorszag isn't aglutinative, it's a simple compound.

Where does 32 cases come from? Most lists I've seen have between 15-20 cases. The numbers differ because Hungarian doesn't lend itself so much to charts of cases, the 'cases' fall into different classes and cases are created and go out of use more quickly than in Polish. When I was studying Hungarian I never really thought to count cases, I just learned endings on their own. It never occurred to me to ask 'How many cases'?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
6 Oct 2008  #23
Technically languages aren't aglutinative, only particular structures are.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutinative_language

both kinds of structures are found in both languages.

I'm not looking for a fight or anything, but please could you give me examples of agglutination in Polish? I'm genuinely curious :-)
mafketis 20 | 7,169
6 Oct 2008  #24
First, the wikipedia article makes clear (without cleary saying, grrrrrr) that "agglutinative language" is an abbreviation for "language with a lot of agglutinating structures". It's a useful abbreviation but you do need to remember it's just an abbreviation and not a typological criteria that makes any sense (beyond specific structures). Linguists all know that different kinds of processes are found in all languages.

Past tense and conditionals are the best examples of agglutinative kinds of structures in Polish.

przeczytałeś

prze-czyta-ł-Ø-eś

through-read-past-masc-secondpersonsg

(it's tempting to think of (e) here as being a mark of masculine gender, but it's not, it's just there to prevent the cluster *-łś

which wasn't allowed when this structure arose.

chciałabym

chcia-ł-a-by-m

want-past-feminine-conditional-firstpersonsg

This esepecially (by accident) seems very agglutinative, historically of course it's three separate words (chciała by m) that got turned into one (you could argue that it should be written as two words (chciała bym, which is how it's said) at which point it becomes less agglutinative.

The Hungarian equivalents of these are actually more synthetic than Polish.

megolvastod
meg-olvas-tod
perfect-read-pastsecondpersonsgwithobject

Some people try to pull off the -t- as the past tense marker but it doesn't work very well.

szeretnék
szeret-nék
want-conditionalfirstpersonsg

Again, some linguists try to pull off the -né- (or ne-) but I'm not convinced.
HAL9009 2 | 304
7 Oct 2008  #25
An Pholain

Aggh, you beat me to it. This is of course Poland in Irish - a very relevant language to all the Polish living in Ireland these days, who will undoubtedly notice it.

Polska = Puola - in Finnish
Bondi 4 | 142
8 Oct 2008  #27
Magdalena, mafketis (& sorry for all the others for being off-topic ^^):

I can't really argue. Some things to clarify:

The numbers differ because Hungarian doesn't lend itself so much to charts of cases, the 'cases' fall into different classes and cases are created and go out of use more quickly than in Polish.

Yep, in Hungarian, you can't draw up a table of "cases" like in Slavonic (and Latinic and Germanic) languages. The logic is different. But let's save you from the "off-forum" details! :)

each particular piece of grammatical info is conveyed by a different suffix. E.g. the Polish ending "-ły" as in poszły, przeczytały, conveys 3 bits of info: gender, tense, and number. Hungarian would have 3 different suffixes stuck on top of each other to convey the same message. Bondi? Did they teach me wrong?

Nearly. :) If I take your example: first, there are no grammatical genders in Hungarian. Second, the grammatical number is much more simple and easier than in Polish. (Or in English! Really, there's only single and plural, and in certain instances we do not even have to use the plural as it is "obvious" - for us - in the context. We have to struggle in English that two cat is not "two cat", but two cats, LoL!)

You're right, though, Hungarian has loads of suffixes. I can see only a fragment of these kinds in Polish. We have "modificator" suffixes that can "translate" verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. back and forth (i.e. verb->noun, noun->adjective etc. + vice versa). That's why we even have stupid, "trendy" verbs like shoppingolni (yeah, that is shoppingować in Polish), as we can simply treat any word as a "root", even foreign ones like that, then "integrate" them in the language.

przeczytałeś (etc...)

The Hungarian equivalents of these are actually more synthetic than Polish.

megolvastad
meg-olvas-tad
perfect-read-pastsecondpersonsgwithobject

Some people try to pull off the -t- as the past tense marker but it doesn't work very well.

Elolvastad is the translation for przeczytałeś. Megolvastad has an archaic taste, and it refers to counting ("reading") money, i.e. "you have counted it". (Or "you have counted them", whatever...)

The t is really the past tense marker there. In present tense: elolvasod or elolvasol (as we have two conjugations in present, so-called definitive and indefinitive -- actually the only "feature" of the language that foreign learners can never attain perfectly).

Alles Gute. :)
mafketis 20 | 7,169
8 Oct 2008  #28
Elolvastad is the translation for przeczytałeś. Megolvastad has an archaic taste, and it refers to counting ("reading") money, i.e. "you have counted it". (Or "you have counted them", whatever...)

Thanks, I couldn't remember for sure and just wanted some form olvas with a prefix (technically called a co-verb in English) and assumed meg was always safe to use.

The t is really the past tense marker there. In present tense: elolvasod or elolvasol

Well the t is a past tense marker in some sense, but ... if you pull if off as a separate morpheme then you have to account for different allomorphs (basically t or-ta and ott with elolvas) and the past tense verb endings are different from the present tense endings. The first person singular endings in the present are -ok and -om while in the past they're -am. A more purely agglutinative structure would have the past tense marker and then the person markers (which wouldn't have different forms in different tenses so the forms would be elolvastok, elolvastom). That's why I said that past tense in Hungarian isn't so agglutinative.

Also I found it _much_ easier to think of separate endings rather than separate conjugations. That is (for my own learning purposes) I found a conjugation chart like the following to be much easier to remember and use.

olvasok
olvasom
olvaslak

olvasol
olvasod

olvas
olvassa

etc etc (my hungarian is very rusty and I did that from memory so there might be a mistake or several)

Then I remember that the first ending for each person is used when there's no object or an indefinite object, the second is used for a definite object (as defined in Hungarian) and the third for a second person object.

That was 10 times easier to use (for me) than 'two conjugations' that don't even include all the endings (-lak/-lek isn't included in either).
nata1ia - | 1
8 Oct 2008  #29
Does anyone here know of polish songs which is about toilet. the song just kept repeating one word which began with a k which i believe is the slang name for toilet in polish. What is the song about, what is it called, who sings it and is it a bad song. i know this is a strange request but i am not polish and the song was being played to me and they were laughing. please i would appreciate your help. thank you
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
8 Oct 2008  #30
The song is "Kibel" and the band's name is The Bill. The song is about making plans while using the toilet. Is it bad? It depends what you had in mind.


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