obydwoma - obydwiema?

One increasingly hears TV presenters say things like "zapoznał się z obydwoma sprawami" rather than "obydwiema". We all know what the norm is, but is there a tendency to ignore the distinction and use obydwoma throughout? Is that already regarded as admissible?

Another point: tę v tą. More and more one hears and occasionally even reads: Poproszę tą czerwoną apaszkę or Weź tą łapę! Is this becoming acceptable?

The bottom line is: does it grate you when you hear obydwoma for females or tą in the feminine accusative singular? If it doesn't, then that means that it will eventually (maybe quite soon) become the norm. Languages evolve and when something gains general acceptance it soon becomes the norm.

In future please provide a translation for the benefit of those members who don't understand Polish.

I'm not a linguist but can tell you how I see it:


It's not correct and is used wrong. It's more an ignorance rather the tendency to ignore the norm. "Obydwoma" refers only to a masculine/neuter noun, and "obydwiema" is used with a feminine noun. Eg. we can't say "Obydwiema rowerami" - only "obydwoma rowerami" is correct.


Here is already a different matter. Although using "tę" is the most preferable by linguists, the "tą" is also regarded as correct - and is widely used alternately in Poland.


Small correcting:
"Tę" sometimes we can replace with "tą", but not the opposite. For example we won't say "Nie mogę zrobić nic tę łapą", only - "tą" łapą.

In general the rule may be simple explained by watching the nouns endings. When ends with "ą" we should use "tą" (like tą piłką) when "ę" - we shall use "tę" (tę apaszkę)

In everyday speech it is allowable, but it shouldn't be used
sjp.pwn.pl/poradnia/haslo/te-czy-ta;2227.html
kul.pl/te-czy-ta,art_20689.html

It is a very common error among native speakers, so you are right it's likely to become a correct form in the future.

In terms of "obydwoma sprawami" - it's clear that it's an error, don't speak nor write like this. The media - and, especially, politicians - rarely bother of this. It is also common, for example, to say "w roku dwutysięcznym piętnastym" ("in the year two thousand fifteen"), although the correct version is "w roku dwa tysiące piętnastym", like we say "w roku tysiąc dziewięćset dziewięćdziesiątym ósmym" ("in the year nineteen ninety-eight") and not "w roku tysięcznym dziewięćsetnym dziewięćdziesiątym ósmym" nor "w roku tysiącdziewięćsetnym dziewięćdziesiątym ósmym" (in case of 19... there weren't any problems, they appeared with the new millenium).

Also weakly educated people may tend to omit this ć in the spelling of the numeral 90 (dziewięćdziesiąt) since it virtually doesn't appear in the pronunciation (it is normally pronounced as "dziewiędziesiąt"). Similar situations, where a letter from spelling is omitted in speaking for simplification, are the order of the day in English, but in Polish they are rare. For example in English "drawer" as a name of a part of a piece of furniture. As far as I know, the ending "er" shouldn't be pronounced (unless we mean a person who makes drawings). Could anyone explain why?