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Grammar help; Dokąd? and Gdzie?


kazalina 7 | 12
10 Jan 2011 #1
Can any one explain the different uses of

Dokąd? and Gdzie?

Many Thanks
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
10 Jan 2011 #2
Dokąd- where to
Gdzie-where
OP kazalina 7 | 12
10 Jan 2011 #3
Looking for something more indeepth;

For example

Dokąd should be used with motion verbs; jechać, iść, pójść ?????

and

Gdzie should be used with static verbs like mieszkać, być ????

Is this correct????

Could anyone give some simple examples?

Thanks
jablko - | 106
10 Jan 2011 #4
I think that Gdzie can be used both with static and motion verbs, where Dokąd can be used only with motion verbs.
MrEp - | 26
10 Jan 2011 #5
PennBoy

true

kazalina

true

jablko

true
This thread is successful :)

Could anyone give some simple examples?

Gdzie idziemy? - Where are we going?
Dokąd idziemy? - Where are we going?

Gdzie on poszedł? - Where did he go?
Dokąd on poszedł? - Where did he go?

Gdzie mieszkasz? - Where do you live?
but:
Dokąd mieszkasz? - WRONG
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
11 Jan 2011 #6
...Grammer help;"

Looking for something moreindeepth;

Examples:

Dokąd idziesz z tym tematem?

Gdzie się uczyłaś angielskiego?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I feel extra mean today... ;)
strzyga 2 | 993
11 Jan 2011 #7
Dokąd mieszkasz? - WRONG

Dokąd mnie nie wyrzucą ;)

this thread made me remember an old joke:

- Gdzie pędzisz?
- W piwnicy.
- Ale dokąd?
- Dokąd mnie nie złapią...

To the OP: "dokąd" in spoken everyday Polish is sometimes used as "until", although the usage is incorrect and rather uneducated.
MrEp - | 26
11 Jan 2011 #8
To the OP: "dokąd" in spoken everyday Polish is sometimes used as "until", although the usage is incorrect and rather uneducated.

Acz słyszeć to będziem, dokąd naroda nie wykształcim i do mowy starannej nie przyuczym ;)
Ziemowit 13 | 4,114
11 Jan 2011 #9
this thread made me remember an old joke:

And it made me remember another old joke:
- Panie, na ile ta kiełbasa?
- Na miesiąc.
- Ja się nie pytam 'na ile', tylko 'po ile'?
- Po plasterku.
strzyga 2 | 993
11 Jan 2011 #10
Acz słyszeć to będziem, dopokąd naroda nie wykształcim i do mowy starannej nie przyuczym ;)

;)

And it made me remember another old joke:

and one more, reportedly from Białystok:

- Jest mięso mielone?
- Mielim.
- To poproszę pół kilo.
- Wczoraj mielim...

although this one should probably go into a verbs thread :)
cinek 2 | 344
12 Jan 2011 #11
I think that Gdzie can be used both with static and motion verbs

I think not. In proper Polish only 'dokąd' is used for motion. It indicates the target, while 'gdzie' indicates the place of the action. Eg.:

Dokąd idziesz? Do domu. Where are you going to? I'm going home.
Gdzie idziesz? Na ulicy. Where are you going (walking)? In a street.

Unfortunately, most Poles would understand 'gdzie idziesz' as 'where are you going to'

although the usage is incorrect and rather uneducated

Cinek
alexw68
12 Jan 2011 #12
Unfortunately, most Poles (...)

Vox populi, vox Dei. Most is an understatement - in casual conversation I don't think I've ever heard 'dokąd idziesz' - disclaimer: I'm a non-native who may be hanging out with the wrong crowd :)
Ziemowit 13 | 4,114
12 Jan 2011 #13
... in casual conversation I don't think I've ever heard 'dokąd idziesz'

I think you are right. People just don't speak in the way they are told they should. Even the educated ones would say "gdzie idziesz?" rather than "dokąd idziesz?". Nevertheless, most people would never use that form in writing. When uttering phrases like "gdzie idziesz, ty głupi baranie!?", replacing 'gdzie' with 'dokąd' would even sound a little "improper".

In contrast to the above, "poszłem" instead of "poszedłem" is a gross mistake both in speech and in writing. I would not say the same about 'gdzie' in place of 'dokąd'. A similar story is about the usage of 'tą' instead of 'tę' in speech; I think most grammarians these days accept the fact that almost no one will say: 'czytam tę książkę', but everyone will say 'czytam tą książkę'.
alexw68
12 Jan 2011 #14
"poszłem" instead of "poszedłem"

Tak, tak, rozumię.

Only joking :)
Lyzko
12 Jan 2011 #15
I was told once by a Polish teacher that 'Gdzie idziesz?' is more slangy usage than 'Dokąd idziesz?' Is this correct or is this one Pole's opinion?
alexw68
12 Jan 2011 #16
Even the educated ones would say "gdzie idziesz?" rather than "dokąd idziesz?". Nevertheless, most people would never use that form in writing.

See above. Nothing slangy about it but it is less formal (and arguably more widespread). There can be a bit of a 'do as I say, but not as I do' thing with pedagogues so it's probably good to get a second, third, fourth opinion.
MrEp - | 26
12 Jan 2011 #17
I think not. In proper Polish only 'dokąd' is used for motion.

You're right, mea culpa.
Using "gdzie" with motion verbs is a mistake. Most Poles however would use it anyway. It can be found even in the Bible:

"Ja jestem z tobą i będę cię strzegł, gdziekolwiek się udasz; a potem sprowadzę cię do tego kraju." (Rdz, 28,15)

most people would never use that form in writing

I agree.
strzyga 2 | 993
13 Jan 2011 #18
oh, but "gdzie idziesz" is perfectly ok,

gdzie - zaimek zastępujący człon zdania oznaczający miejsce jako środowisko odbywania się czegoś, rzadziej także cel przestrzenny, kierunek (dokąd) lub drogę, trasę (którędy)

Ej, ty na szybkim koniu, gdzie pędzisz, Kozacze?
Słownik języka polskiego PWN

gdzie - 2.wyraża potrzebę określenia kierunku, celu, do jakiego się dąży, trasy, którą się podąża
bliskoznaczne: dokąd
Praktyczny słownik współczesnej polszczyzny

Using "dokąd" every time in speech would be overly formal and stiff, it's hypercorrectness of the same kind as overly nasalizing "ę" in word endings or pronouncing jako instead of japko. In speech, gdzie idziesz is more natural than dokąd idziesz. And I wouldn't hesitate to use it in writing too, it would depend on the context.

"poszłem" instead of "poszedłem"

My son is of an opinion that poszłem should be used when you go to a nearby place, and poszedłem - when going far :)
Lyzko
14 Jan 2011 #19
I figured as much, Strzyga!

Many thanks-:)


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