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The Polish language - it's bloody hard!


VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
3 Jun 2008 #91
Some good points here.

Lets not forget that English is the global language and in many instances when it is spoken it will be non-native speakers speaking English with non-native speakers. Both of which will speak English in their own way and neither of which will speak 'perfect English'.

It's not about speaking English perfectly. It's about communication, as has quite rightly been pointed out.
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #92
..and what then is 'communication' other than the fluent, at the same time, accurate, transfer of ideas? Nobody's even speaking about 'perfection'!!! -:)

If person A from Albania can't effectively understand person B from Lithuania, is this real 'communication', or more accurately, 'approximation'?

Think of all that's being missed by the former definitions of communication, the more the very standards of language, in this case English language, become eroded?!
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jun 2008 #93
Is it really always a guest/host relationship or something else I'm missing?

Maybe they just resent being made to feel as if they were in the classroom? Unless of course this actually WAS a classroom situation, of course. Otherwise, I'd just let them be. To each their own. If someone doesn't actually ask to be corrected, why hound them? As long as I understand what they mean, I have absolutely no problem with someone's less-than-perfect English or whatever other language.
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #94
I haven't either. Why then do many foreign native speakers treat US in our own home turf as though it were a classroom?? Doesn't seem quite equitable now, does it?

I'm fine with people not knowing....so long as they realize it and are curious about knowing more, be it sports scores, philology or sex!!
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
3 Jun 2008 #95
..and what then is 'communication' other than the fluent, at the same time, accurate, transfer of ideas?

Communication doesn't demand fluency or accuracy. It just needs to be sufficient for meaning to be understood. The degree to which you need to be competent in a language depends on the complexity of the message you are trying to communicate.

If person A from Albania can't effectively understand person B from Lithuania, is this real 'communication', or more accurately, 'approximation'?

Approximation may well be sufficient to communicate your message :)

in this case English language, become eroded?!

Eroded or evolving?

If someone doesn't actually ask to be corrected, why hound them?

How peole react to uninvited correction depends on individual and cultural factors. I would be extremely sensative when offering uninvited corrections
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jun 2008 #96
I'm fine with people not knowing....so long as they realize it and are curious about knowing more,

But you have to accept they might not be curious. I am totally uninterested in sport, for example.

Why then do many foreign native speakers treat US in our own home turf as though it were a classroom??

Don't quite follow your drift there, I'm afraid.
Do you mean tourists walk around NY or Houston and force the natives to explain the finer points of English grammar to them, or what? ;-)
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #97
...I mean simply, that we Yanks, educated as many of us are, are for whatever reason not encouraged to correct, say, French tourists visiting or travelling here in the States. The latter, on the other hand, take the greatest pride, often in belittling in the guise of 'correcting' our conserted efforts to speak good French. They may mangle our pronounciation so that it's no longer recognizable to it closest living realtives, we though, must hook every cedilla and sharpen every accent aigu.

Just attempting to even the score, that's all.

In addition, there are many out there who are seemingly immune to 'organic learning', that is learning by example. Either they psychologically resist the correct model, be it vocabulary, grammar, spelling whatnot, or they are just plain incapable of learning. I say then, "Face it!" I speak your language better than you speak mine! Give it a rest!" (....but without SAYING the last sentence, of course!)

Is language which is 'evolving' in a downward spiral, more like 'devolving', really doing nothing other than 'eroding'??
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
3 Jun 2008 #98
"Face it!" I speak your language better than you speak mine! Give it a rest!"

LOL - I know what you mean :)

But of course the answer is 'great, lets speak my language!'
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jun 2008 #99
The latter, on the other hand, take the greatest pride, often in belittling in the guise of 'correcting' our conserted efforts to speak good French.

Oh that way you mean. Well, the easiest and most effective way out is to simply tell them you're not interested in their corrections. Unless, of course, you are. I don't think trying to "even the score" would prove constructive in any way. Some people want to learn by example, others don't. Some are overzealous in their linguistic crusading, some couldn't care less. Getting worked up over it won't help ;-)

People are a stubborn bunch and the more you try to change them for their own good, the more they resist.
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #100
Whose 'my' are 'we' referring to here? LOL

Magda, wreszcie zgadzam się z twoim zdaniem: Człowiek niełatwy rozumieć!! -:)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jun 2008 #101
Człowiek niełatwy rozumieć!!

Are you asking for a correction of that? I'm on the verge of actually correcting you here, but I shall abstain until further notice ;-)
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #102
....If one is needed, yes, certainly!

Dla poprawienia znajdujemy się tutaj! = That's what we're here for! = Dazu sind wir da!

Conversely, should you require/request correction (in English not in Polish LOL!!!!!!!), I too shall abstain until further notice.

My, if only all such multi-cultural exchanges could be this pleasant.

I teach multi-cultural studies as well as translation in New York.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jun 2008 #103
Człowiek niełatwy rozumieć!!

Did you mean to say:

Człowieka niełatwo zrozumieć - or
Człowiekowi niełatwo zrozumieć?

;-)
Marek 4 | 867
3 Jun 2008 #104
Człowieka niełatwo zrozumieć = Der Mensch ist kaum zu verstehen. = People are hard to figure.

Tak jest, Magdo! --:)
Overclocked - | 3
4 Jun 2008 #105
I once lived in South Africa and we used "fortnight" as well. South African English is very much like British English.
pipeczko
5 Jun 2008 #106
practicing

that would be 'practising', since it is a verb ...

(sorry, but you really are so extraordinarily arrogant that it had to be pointed out ... if only for poor old Magda, whom you have given a very rough ride!)

oh, unless that bastardization of English which is 'American' has seen fit to remove the (essential) distinction between the noun 'practice' and verb 'practise' ... ? do enlighten me ; )

(and on my lack of capital letters ... it is a very conscious choice)
Marek 4 | 867
5 Jun 2008 #107
British and American, Pipeczko, have variant spellings, as I'm sure you're well aware. 'organize' vs. 'organise', 'practice'/'practise' etc...

Magda, a "rough ride"??? (Chuckle! -:) I hardly think so, considering the "arrogant" treatment we well-intentioned Yanks get abroad, every time we endeavor to point out a thing or two regarding English grammar, often so gleefully mutilated by others.

Wouldn't hurt us Americans either to instill a little more language pride into ourselves. If you send out pollution into the air, you'll get the same foul air right back in your face, kind of like blowing smoke at someone. Now that's not nice, is it??

"Arrogant"? I've been called a lot worse, thank you! Why yesterday, someone called me a Republican!
logan8200 - | 2
5 Jun 2008 #108
hi friends
i want to learn pollish can somebody help me
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
5 Jun 2008 #109
If you send out pollution into the air, you'll get the same foul air right back in your face, kind of like blowing smoke at someone. Now that's not nice, is it??

...and pray, were have I (metaphorically of course) "sent out pollution into the air"? I asked some questions, voiced some opinions, and got told off. That's how I see it. The questions remained unanswered.
Marek 4 | 867
5 Jun 2008 #110
Oj, Magdo, Magdo!! Bardzo mi przykro. I wasn't suggesting that you were sending out pollution. You misunderstood me. If anything, I was/am blaming the slovenliness of US education which trains its pupils so poorly in their mother language, not to even mention a foreign language, that the rest of the planet merrily follows our lead, unquestioningly mimicking everything we do or say, the way we dress (or undress, as the case may be) etc., with no sound yardstick of aethetic judgement, i.e. if it's from Hollywood, it's got to be good! -:)--:) LOL

Perhaps the Poles could stand a little more 'Hollyłódź', and a little less of the former.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
5 Jun 2008 #111
I wasn't suggesting that you were sending out pollution.

OK, it just sounded that way when I was reading your post. I am not feeling my best today, and that's putting it mildly.
Marek 4 | 867
5 Jun 2008 #112
No czujesz się lepiej, Magdo! Teraz wszystko porządku a wciągle porozmawiamy o
język polski, o 'trudny język polski'. --:) LOL

Never take what I post personally. It's all done for effect. Actually, I rather enjoy the exchange. Imagine, sparing with a real Pole. The idea is quite appealing. don't you think?

Do siego razu!
sjf 2 | 13
6 Jun 2008 #113
I dont think Polish is very difficult,compared with Sanskrit.
Marek 4 | 867
6 Jun 2008 #114
Bodmer's 'The Loom of Language' (original German title: 'Sprachen der Welt') reports a mere -:) LOL one-hundred-and-seventy-nine multiple verb conjugations, i.e classes, in ancient Sanskrit!!!

That may be a record. I'm not sure though. Paging Mr. Guiness!
Krzysiek
14 Jun 2008 #115
:) Well, well, what a discussion...

I'm a Polish native speaker and I must say that this language must be one of the hardest to master, as even within the polish society there are few who can call themselves "masters of the language".

But to be honest every language can be found difficult. I've learned english for quite some time now, and although reaching the basics is quite easy becoming a master in it is quite opposite - especially if you would take under consideration the more subtle "poetry english".

Marek: "No czujesz się lepiej, Magdo! Teraz wszystko porządku a wciągle porozmawiamy o język polski, o 'trudny język polski".

Quite a major mistake. A bit of humility would do you good.

Cheers,
Marek 4 | 867
15 Jun 2008 #116
Dziękuję, Krzysku!

'Szybkiego wyzdrowienia...' jest lepiej, zrozumiem, że pierwsza część zdania jest błąda.

As far as humility, I might correct your English in as far as your own paragraph also has a number of errors.-:)

Na zdrowie!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Jun 2008 #117
As regards humility, or as far as humility is concerned or as for humility, as far as humility goes etc. Not as far as humility.

I'll keep u in check too Marek, ;)
osiol 55 | 3,922
15 Jun 2008 #118
You can read through a dictionary as far as humility.
Gab - | 133
15 Jun 2008 #119
Hej :)

Podziwiam tych wszystkich szalencow, ktorzy chca sie uczyc naszego pieknego polskiego! Moje doswiadczenia, a raczej doswiadczenia moich znajomych sa takie, ze idzie im to jak przyslowiowa krew z nosa, ale chca sie dalej uczyc :) Za co ich bardzo podziwiam :) No i jak tylko moge to cos tam zawsze im pomagam.

Anyways, good luck to you all with Polish! And please ask more questions here on the forum :) Don't hesitate!

GAB
plg 17 | 263
16 Jun 2008 #120
Apr 24, 07, 05:38 Report #43

Quoting: plg
what about the spelling of English words Saffron like PRONUNCIATION ....

Don't worry about him Saff. He's just angry because he thinks that it's ok to say 'yous'.
Then again, I think they do that in Scotland apparently.

No no it's Iron Brew. They just won't listen.

yes it is perfectly ok to use "YOUS" in scotland where i do come from

its confusing if people refer to other people by just saying >you........

pa,.........i lead a quiet life now


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