Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

Thanks Atch. Again.
The headline says Poland exports set a record and exceeded a trillion złoty. That's very cool! Congratulations!

On a second item, my Polish lesson program talks about the distinction between casual and formal conversation. Are there any guidelines as to when to use the formal speech? If I ask a stranger for directions do I use formal? If I am talking to a priest do I use formal? In German it used to be that you used the formal as a default until there was an agreement to use casual.

Thanks again Atch.

Genealogy / Hypothetical cousin from America - genealogy and Poles [20]

(Somehow posted before I meant to.)
A wall can spring up when people move to a new country. My grandparents spoke Polish in their home. So my Dad's generation learned to speak Polish as well. When it came time to go to school they were taught to speak, read and write English. But they could not read and write Polish. So even if one of my Dad's siblings wanted to write to the family in Poland it was not easy. And the wall is even more effective for the next generation (me) and does a good job of keeping the family separated.

Except ...
My aunt (Dad's sister) was a nun. She worked in a hospital and developed an amazing skill with languages. Polish was one of several languages she taught herself. She made contact with the family in Poland. I have a couple of the letters and I think there may be more records in a box that my cousin found. We believe she may have visited Poland as well but we're not sure.

In short, I have found a way around the wall. I am trying to figure out what to do now that I can see to the other side. Do I look for family or do I just visit and take pictures of churches and graveyards? Or both? If the typical Polish person, who has lived in the same area for many generations, has a good grasp of their family genealogy then it would be nice to (try to) communicate with them. But I don't want to impose on them either. Much to consider.

Thanks again Atch and kaprys. Remarkable that you could discern what I needed in light of the lousy way I asked the question.

Genealogy / Hypothetical cousin from America - genealogy and Poles [20]

Thanks Milo and Ironside. And special thanks to Atch and kaprys. Yet again you answered my questions oerfectl

Genealogy / Hypothetical cousin from America - genealogy and Poles [20]

Ok. Pretty weird. Maybe very weird. Aiming for humor but missed. The fat old American is me. But if you ignore the story and look at the questions you'll see what I'd like to know. My last name is very common in Poland. So if I visit the area where I expect to find family, in general, can I expect people to know about their family tree back 3 or 4 generations? (I suspect most people in US would know very little about great grandparents.) And in general should I expect a Polish family to know that they may even have a distant relative in the US if the relative that emigrated left Poland in the early 1900's? Or is this whole topic not even interesting to them and will quickly bore them?

If it is too weird then just ignore it and it will go away. Sorry.

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [222]

In the US we take a national census every 10 years. The records can help with genealogy, even though they aren't public for 72 years. Some members of my family have census records where they list their country of origin differently every 10 years. I was pretty frustrated at first. But as I read the history of the area it is entirely possible they were all telling the truth and all accurate. It depends on how the question was worded. "What country were you born in?" might have a different answer than "What country is your home town in?"

The stuff I see about Copernicus refers to Poland. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [222]

Thanks mafketis! I am glad to hear that Płock will be a good place to visit with things to do if I need a break from the genealogy search.

Guess I'm naive but, based on my reading, I would not have expected to hear of Polish religious heretics. I would have put them in the same category as Latin American bobsled racers. It will be interesting to read about their beliefs.

Thanks again all! Enlightening information! Much appreciated.

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [222]

Thank you Atch! Thank you gumishu! Good feedback.

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [222]

The travel books seem to pretty much ignore Płock. I still may end up there during my genealogy visit as my family is from the area around Rościszewo. Płock looks like a nice enough place with respect to scenery, restaurants and other touristy accomodations. Are there any historical sites or museums I should visit near Płock? It's ok if there are not any attractions like that as I will have plenty to do. In other words I probably would not go to see "the world's largest ball of string" just because it is in the area. I just don't want to miss something good because I didn't do good research on the area.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2223]

I was mainly interested in the election process. But I will try to follow the election too when I find articles to read. It's difficult since "objective news" seems to be an oxymoron these days.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2223]

Perfect. Thank you.

News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates [2223]

I see the term "second round" used here. Could someone briefly explain what that means please? How many "rounds" are there? Are all candidates included in a "round" or just the candidates from one party (which would make it similar to our primary votes)? And I presume that the last round would result in the election if your President - true?

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

@mafketis - that is the best explanation I have heard. Thank you. Long sentences can create quite a challenge to make them unambiguous. If I try to just use pronouns and articles without using the noun it can be particularly difficult. And putting the noun into the long sentences multiple times can make it sound odd. But having categories of nouns and having the articles and pronouns match the category of the noun would help to reduce ambiguity.

Thank you for that explanation.

Life / Why oh Why do Poles drive so incredibly poorly [100]

This is enlightening. If I read discussions on "bad drivers" in the US they always take the same pattern, whether the discussion is about local, regional or national drivers. It seems that I can now add international to that list.

My neighbor was on a jury pool for a trial resulting from an automobile crash. During the selection process one of the lawyers asked him "Do you think there is such a thing as a bad driver?" "Yes" he answered. "And how would you define a bad driver" the lawyer asked. My neighbor responded "Everyone except me".

When asked to rate their driving ability, 80% of Americans say they are better than average. I would have guessed the number would be higher than that.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Yes, that sounds like the right idea. I find myself wondering why there is a need for categories of nouns and the consequent need to adjust the supporting adjectives and articles to match the noun. I never considered that old English may have used that same principle.

But I should know better than to ask "why". I helped an illiterate adult learn to read many years ago. He knew all the rules for spelling and pronunciation quite well. He would struggle with a word and when I would tell him what it was he would just shake his head and tell me which rule was being broken. I frequently felt like I needed to apologize for the English language.

I'm sure even I can learn the correct way to use adjectives and articles for the various categories of nouns. I just see myself getting it incorrect for a long time. I just need more practice.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Well it's a bit different still. I can have a "pretty boat" and a "pretty car" and a "pretty daughter" and a "pretty house" and the word "pretty" doesn't change even though the boat and the daughter are the only ones you'd call "she". Some languages change the adjective to match the noun but English doesn't. Guess maybe I'll never know. Kind of like why do we drive on the parkway and park on the driveway. A great mystery.

Language / What is your biggest problem with Polish language? [158]

Along the lines of this thread ...
Many languages have genders (I think that's what they call them in German) for nouns. I suppose no one would seriously claim that a pencil is a male or that a newspaper is female, etc. But a fair amount of linguistic effort is expended to make sure the adjectives and articles match the gender of the noun.

English does not do that. "My car", "my pencil" "my newspaper", it's all the same with no consideration as to what property (gender) the noun has. It's all "my", and of course same for articles like "the" and "a". (I know Polish just skips the articles unless they are required.)

If languages evolve, one would assume that aspects of a language without much benefit would tend to disappear. It would be like when you look at the skeleton of a whale and can see vestigial legs. When prehistoric whales moved into the ocean there was no need for legs and they may have had a disadvantage so they eventually disappeared.

So my (long-winded) question is:
What advantage is there to having genders for nouns? Not having such a thing in my native tongue, I can't see what I am missing. It just seems like a needless complexity to me. But since so many languages have them maybe I am missing something.

Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

Interesting question Rich. My wife is kind of a wordsmith/language type person. I asked her what she thought "first generation" meant because I wasn't sure I knew. Is it the person who came to the new country or the child(ren) of the person who came to the new country? After some research (admittedly not a lot though) we had to conclude that it is not really clear. Maybe someone has better info than we could find, but our conclusion was not conclusive one way or the other.

Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

I hope the moderator doesn't get cranky because we are off topic. But thank you all for the valuable inputs.

I have not traveled a lot but I have found that a sense of humor is absolutely required. I have also found that most people in the host country will try to help me communicate. And I can encourage them by learning some of their language. The locals that I meet at tourist attractions are pretty resourceful with languages. Outside the touristy areas is where things get interesting. But it is also where you collect the most interesting experiences.

I was at a McD's in New Zealand. It wasn't 10 seconds after I got to the counter that the teenage female clerk and I both had big smirks on our faces because we were obviously speaking the same language but neither of us could understand the other. While eating my Kiwiburger I finally realized that an "ig" is an egg. And lucky for me that I like beets because I can't even remember how she pronounced that word.

Thanks again.

Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

So there's a little bit of Polish culture I didn't know and they don't even put in the travel books. WC's are pay-to-play? (Except McD's) And they have a real person to collect the groszys? Cosmic! But good to know if it's true. But there must be some distinction if I am in a business where I am a customer - right? Like a restaurant or a theater.

I just realized I am leaving myself wide open here and you all can have a great laugh at my naivety. Be kind.

Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

Thanks all. The theory was that I would find members of my family in Poland and try to have a conversation about family history. Might be naive but you have to have a goal. So I figured I would need to learn some Polish to have that kind of conversation. I took some Polish lessons online from the library. But I might need to do something different because so far I know how to order pork chops and mashed potatoes.

I realize that most younger people can converse in English, and that might ultimately be the answer. But I figure maybe learning some more Polish can't hurt. I might get tired of eating pork chops and mashed potatoes every evening.

Genealogy / Second gen Polish-American with little exposure [45]

I am probably only a couple of steps beyond where you are Littlest. I began doing genealogy because I knew almost nothing of my European family. Genealogy almost requires some knowledge of history (Why are they recording birth records in Russian?). The history of Poland is so tumultuous that I find myself amazed that the country even exists at all. So now I am intrigued and want to visit. To do that I have a need to learn some language (Oof!). And so it goes.

If you have family who are in Poland, secure that relationship. Interview family in the US who have knowledge of Poland. I don't have that info and it is difficult to get it since all my Dad's generation is gone. The only thing that saved me is a book my Mom (who is not Polish) put together with her memories that included some info from Dad's family. Mom's memory is still great which helps immensely. Plus I have 4 notes from a Polish relative written to my Aunt (both of them now deceased).

The site that Atch listed looks good too. Thanks Atch. What is "PRL Poland?

I don't know what "Polish heat" is. But I'm an old guy and probably would not know what to do with it whatever it is.

Good luck.

Genealogy / Families from Poland - finding out their names prior to immigration? [6]

The geneteka website is amazing. (Polish) Rather than try to explain it just take a couple hours to look at it. They have over 30 million church records indexed in a computer searchable database. I found it on Cyndislist but you can probably just search for geneteka. I stumbled around and found lots of stuff so you can as well.

Don't be surprised how many hits you get even if the name sounds unusual to you. If you know his parents they will likely be in the birth records and I think even marriage records. That's how I found my dziadek. I had his parents names on his marriage license (US) so I could tell when I found the right Stanisław's birth record in Poland.

If you don't know his parents, consider looking for his naturalization records. That record lists all kinds of great info, including parents, hometown, ship he came over on. Read about the history of how immigrants became naturalized citizens for specifics. Before 1912(+/-) Naturalization was handled at the local courthouse. Some of the spelling might be a little more "creative" than you'd like. But before you send the feds their $65 fee, check with the records people in the town where he settled. They had the record for my dziadek and sent me a copy for free in less than a week. I just consider the $65 I sent the feds and the 6 weeks I waited for a "sorry" letter as an expensive lesson.

Good luck. It is quite frustrating until you hit paydirt. Then it is kind of a hoot.

USA, Canada / Are there any Polish persons living in Louisiana? [17]

I have the answer to your dilemma. And it may be the answer to the meaning of life as well. One word: pączki. (I hope I'm spelling it right.)

I grew up in the Cleveland area. We all knew our surname was Polish but it was not a big deal. Back then people would search you out and tell you the latest Polack joke they just heard. And you were expected to just smile politely, maybe even chuckle, then move on.

I was back in Ohio at the start of Lent last year. The whole place was crazy for pączki. All the bakeries had big signs out front. It was on the evening news. Heck, my sister-in-law is from Japan and she was talking about where I should go to get the best pączki. Lines go around the block. One place even had a polka band playing when they opened at 6 A.M. on pączki day.

I figure it would fit right in with the LA pre-Lenten escapades. Worst case, you'd have some really good pączki. And you may have discovered the answer to the meaning of life.

Language / Dziadzia / Babcia - help me with spelling/pronunciation [81]

Thank you kaprys. I just found some genealogical evidence for my cioteczna babka so your timing is great.

Language / Dziadzia / Babcia - help me with spelling/pronunciation [81]

Thank you Dominic. I didn't have that in my Polish dictionary either. But I tried it in translate again and it worked this time. It's not even 10 AM here and I'm smarter than when I woke up.

Thanks again.

One more question: is wspaniała ciocia my Grandfather's sister? (Google translate)