Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


What did they do in Warsaw then, Paulina, to merit 150+ arrests?

But nice to see you looking at evidence for a change, even if it isn't relevant to the case.

It's curious to learn what people have/haven't heard of, even those with no apparent interest in football.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


Exactly. It should be the greater the threat/damage/disruption, the greater the police activity. The Warsaw police don't see things like that. For them, the easier it is to arrest people, then the greater the number they will arrest.

Maybe the Met should follow the tactics of their Warsaw counterparts. Zero tolerance for Wimbledon crowds, and just allow Millwall to police themselves. It would certainly make their jobs easier and more pleasant.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

Thanks. It's pathetic.

The only damage I've heard the Italians caused was an upset waste-paper bin.

If anyone knows of any other damage/injuries caused, then please post it here.

Independence day march: burning rainbows, attack on squat, attack on Russian embassy = 72 arrests

Lazio fans: upset rubbish bin =153 arrests.

We might imagine that twice the arrests = twice the damage.

I don't trust the police in Poland. Take the incident in Gdynia where the police arrested and tried to blame Mexicans for their being subject to what amounted to a racial assault.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

What interests me is that with over a hundred and fifty arrested we would expect to see some serious damage somewhere.

I have yet to see any evidence of the Lazio fans 'terrorizing' Warsaw'.

With all the photographers and so on present where are the photos of this 'hooliganism'.

I suspect that the police find it easier to arrest and detain Italian football fans than far right independence day marchers.

How much damage was caused that day and how many were arrested?

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


Really? Looks more like a meat cleaver to me.

A man hacked off the head of Lee Rigby with a kitchen knife

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Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


I'm not an expert on buying knives in Warsaw, but the idea of buying one with a serrated edge seems pretty strange.

I'm sure most hypermarkets have a pretty good range of knives.

If these were an organised hooligan gang, how difficult would it have been for them to get hold of something like a stanley knife?

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

That's the point. If the hooligan nutcase had to arm himself, why would he choose such a knife from the hundreds available at just about any hardware store?

No doubt Bolt can run pretty fast in wellington boots, but they would hardly be his footwear of choice.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


I wouldn't, so I guess we have a difference of opinion here.

Do you seriously believe some hardcore hooligan nutcase would select a serrated knife as his weapon of choice?

Two, possibly three of the knifes shown are the kind that hooligans might arm themselves with, the rest you might find in any kitchen, anywhere.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


With serrated edges ?????


The 'weapons' were allegedly found in their hotel rooms. They weren't actually being carried to a football match. And most of the 'weapons' look like the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.

Please have a look at the video and judge for yourself.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

Have a good look at the knives in the video. Some have serrated edges. Either the Italians were quite spectacularly stupid and didn't have the faintest idea how to injure anyone with a knife, or whatever was allegedly found in their hotel rooms had not been purchased with the intention of killing or injuring.

If anything, much of what the police put on display was the kind of cutlery you are likely to find in any hotel.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

The 'sharp objects' were allegedly found in a search of their hotel rooms.

If they had had the inclination to run around stabbing people, then a kitchen knife would have been an odd choice of weapon.

Then again, the Italians aren't exactly renowned for their fighting qualities. So if these people were indeed 'hooligans', then they may well have been hopeless, pathetic and incompetent at hooliganism, and armed themselves with 'girlie' knives. So unlike their Legia counterparts.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

But no-one has yet shown the evidence of crimes having been committed.

If the police shot you dead, should we have a laugh about this too?

After all, all I need do is claim you are a member of some 'neo-Nazi terrorist gang' and then the shooting would be justified.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


What do you mean, "I don't know that."

If there's evidence of their misbehaving, then let's see it.

These days, everyone has access to camera in their mobile phone, and there are professional photographers present who would like to make some money from a good picture.

The so-called monitoring camera film shows nothing conclusive whatsoever. Much of the 'arsenal' of weapons turns out to be ordinary kitchen knives.


Brilliant, Peter, mate.

And if you don't do any of the above, do you lose all your rights as well?

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]


I'd like to see the evidence of their having done anything wrong.

Nothing conclusive has been filmed or photographed.

There must have been scores of photographers in Warsaw looking for some great action pictures.


I most probably would.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

It isn't clear at all.

And the Polish police must be pretty pathetic if they feel threatened by small kitchen knives.

They'd find a bigger 'arsenal' if they raided my Granny's flat.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

Why Lazio supporters would appear to have been carrying common kitchen knives is beyond me.

Furthermore, the video of the 'attacks' is hardly clear.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


I, personally, have posted neither opinion.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


Ah well, I will just have to learn to copy your calm, collected, erudite, rationality, I suppose.

Life / Lack of human rights in Poland? [132]

I get the idea that because a number of Legia fans were arrested in Rome, the Polish police decided to round up and charge an equal number of Lazio supporters in Warsaw. Don't seriously expect justice and fairness.

Language / Frustrated Polish Learner -- people in Poland try to speak to me in English [31]


In that case, you must speak it perfectly.

Language / Frustrated Polish Learner -- people in Poland try to speak to me in English [31]


How would you react to native speakers of English reacting in such a way to yourself (assuming your English to be non-native)?

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

It does. White British people (generally) don't learn foreign languages because they don't need to. It isn't lack of ability or laziness, just lack of practical need.

Language / Frustrated Polish Learner -- people in Poland try to speak to me in English [31]


There's some truth in that. Speakers of Polish generally have little or no experience of conversing in their own language with those who speak it imperfectly.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


It isn't particularly difficult to find 'underclass' Polish people in Poland, just as it isn't particularly difficult to meet 'chavs' in the UK. If you are unaware of this, then either you don't know Poland, or else you (for whatever reason) choose not to notice such people.


Why should British people have the right to live in Britain?

Because they are British, I'd imagine.


I don't accept that our European brothers either (a) are better educated or (b) work harder. Presumably you have only ever met the tiny subset of Polish people who speak English well. Have you ever been to an 'Urząd' in Poland?

If you wish to meet the Polish underclass, if you come to my city I'm perfectly happy to direct you to places you would be likely to meet them. Have fun :)


I haven't written any xenophobic abuse.

I've seen lots of abuse from yourself to your own people, however.

One of your arguments against British 'chavs' is their lack of knowledge of foreign languages. Do you speak any?

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


If that is true then your social circles and experiences must have been extremely limited.

A bit like me claiming to know the UK well, but never having met any chavs/unemployed/lazy/poorly educated people.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


You obviously idealise Poles for some reason or other. Either you don't know that much about them or simply choose what to notice and what to ignore.


I don't regard anyone as 'deadwood'. If you lost your ability to work would you be happy to be described as such?


I don't regard anyone as 'scum'.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

That's fair enough.

However, do you see the point of paying people to do nothing and importing foreigners to work?

Because I don't.

And btw, I have nothing personally against any immigrants. It isn't 'wrong' to move to another country to find work.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

That's a bit insulting. Do you imagine yourself to be harder working and better educated than myself?

About learning the language, I know enough to get paid for translating Polish.

Sure you know some 'lazy' Brits. Have you never met their Polish equivalents? If not, then you don't really know Poland and Poles, do you.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]


I've lived and worked in the UK. Have you lived and worked in Poland?


There is also an underclass in Poland. What do you imagine they are like?