Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


And who if not the rich and powerfull are in charge? Green aliens from Mars?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Culture is quickly changing. For example in France more than 40% of all the newborn babies have at least one parent of non-French ethnicity. To which culture they will belong, do you think, when they will grow up? Many of them already live in the ghettos and even constitute majority in some cities. I don't see the ways how they could be ever assimilated in such numbers already.

The scope of foreign origin can be estimated by the National Screening Program for Sickle Cell Disease because the genetic disease very rarely affects European people.

"The screening suggests that in 2000, 19 percent of all newborn babies in Metropolitan France had at least one parent originating from one of the risk regions. The figure for 2007 was 28.45 percent, for 2010 31.5 percent, for 2012 34.44 percent, for 2013 35.7 percent,[48] and for 2015 38.9 percent."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_groups

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


So, who needed such decision and why? And who are the imbeciles?


I would choose a black surgeon if I would be certain his skills are better than skills of a white surgeon.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


I don't want to play around with the great and noble concepts. Social justice for me isn't a something to mock around.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

I don't idealize such countries like USSR, GDR, PNR, etc, but no one attempted to invade these countries after 1945 and subsequently there was no need to shoot someone. Population size was relatively stable. Fertility rate in Russian Soviet Republic was 2.12 children per family in 1990. (In USA it is 1.7 in 2021.) Even so USSR agressively promoted multiculturism and BLM and potentially there could be not a few immigrants from the poorest African countries who would want to live in USSR, only few of them ever managed to do it. So, largerly situation with fertility and immigration depends on the social system. Japan and Korea restricted immigration more than other developed country, but I wonder what will they do just in 50 years...

Chinese were forced to restric fertility, but this is just because there are more than 1.5 billions of them already. But they promiced to cancel all the restrictions soon!


Social justice in which exactly country? Could I move there?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

According to NAEP, one-third of Latino students perform below grade level. In the most recent NAEP results (NCES, 2003), only 11 percent of Latino eighth-graders scored at or above proficient in math, compared to 36 percent of white ninth graders. In reading, only 14 percent of Latino eighth-graders scored at or above proficient, compared to 39 percent of white eighth-graders.

Now what China has to do is at least maintain what they've acheived already. And in 2100 all the World will fall to their knees like a rotten tree.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


I didn't say it matters anything by itself. It just was my respons to "Novichok". I think situation in the modern World wouldn't be different if all the people would have the same skin colour. Let say tomorrow all the blacks, Asians and Latinos will start to have white skin colour. What is it going to change? I don't claim it will change something. Therefore I don't claim that skin color is important. I just think that under present social system people with higher IQ and better eduation have tendensy to have fewer children than people with lower IQ and worse edudation on average. Therefore it leads to falling of average national IQ and education. Even if all people will change their skin colour to white it's not going to change something by itself. Therefore I don't imply something about skin colour in particular.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


In this case you need to prepare for a big changes. In USA the Whites are no more absolute majority among working age population.


cnn.com/2021/08/12/politics/us-census-2020-data/index.html
But 57% - this is of total, not working age population. There are more than 50 mln. of White babyboomers in US, all of whom are older than 60 now. Long live modern economic system!

"Data from the U.S. Census Bureau show that there are 76.4 million baby boomers.
There were actually a total of 76 million births in the United States from 1946 to 1964"
prb.org/resources/just-how-many-baby-boomers-are-there/


theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world1

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

Let's strengthen democracy in cooperatives!

I think there are to key elements to the future cooperative economy.
1) Elections must never been falsified.
2) Every voter must understand elections as a science.


Yes, very efficient. 100+ millions of the dead combined!..

Genealogy / Bies ancestry [10]


This word means "a devil" in both Russian and Polish. In Ukrainian is sounds like "bis" (using Polish orthography). So your ancestors could be either from Polish or old Ruthenian or mixed nobility.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


They only started the uprisings. But later not a few other Ukrainians joined them. At its peak Ukrainian army reached around 500.000. Many Cosscks who served Polish Crown switched to their side. For example Ivan Bohun.

Bohun was born in Ukrainian-Ruthenian nobility family. He took part in the Khmelnytsky Uprising against Polish rule in Ukraine.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bohun

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


If they would be able to please Ukrainians it all may never took place...

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

Research published by the Worldwatch Institute found that in 2012 approximately one billion people in 96 countries had become members of at least one cooperative.[2] The turnover of the largest three hundred cooperatives in the world reached $2.2 trillion.[3]

Cooperative businesses are typically more productive[4] and economically resilient than many other forms of enterprise, with twice the number of co-operatives (80%) surviving their first five years compared with other business ownership models (41%) according to data from United Kingdom.[5] The largest worker owned cooperative in the world, the Mondragon Corporation (founded by Catholic priest José María Arizmendiarrieta), has been in continuous operation since 1956.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


In Ukraine 99% of population is white and there is no immigration in Ukraine, but population quickly diminishes. Who is guilty in it and what to do? Ukrainians aren't going to have babies if income inequalities will remain that absurd. And if nobody will pay them luxury parental benefites. The same in all other countries.

In Poland 99% of population is white. And very little non-white immigration for now. Fertility rates - 1.48 children per family, on average. How are you going to change that? What relation to tolerance does it have?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


How progress in general in long run is possible without progress of the human nature? Signifficant part of the human nature is defined by genetics.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

For now I don't see a lot of reasons to reduce total Earth population under condition that it would be intelligent and well educated on average. With modern technologies World could easily feed 10 billions of people and even more. The only reason to reduce it would be severe shortage of resources, but fortunately I don't see such principal problem. All the goods which are made of metals could be made of metal scrap. Demand for hydrocarbons will fall while nuclear power and renuables will continue to replace them. Agricultural yields could be farther improved with help of genetic engineering. Wild nature is more or less efficiently protected in developed countries from extinction. So, if all countries would be developed I don't see why we need to dream about old good days when World was "smaller".

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

Usually, competition between workers for working places is much bigger than competiton between business owners for workforce. And this situation will only worsen as this competition becomes global (outsourcing) and automation increases. Why to use positive incentives if negative (fear to loose job) are quite sufficient? In general there is a rule in market economy: "price of some entity cannot grow if proposition of this entity exceeded demand". Therefore price of workforce (salaries) cannot grow if proposition of workforce in total exceeds demand. What is usual case everywhere. The opposite cases are exceedenly rare...

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Not all of them. Apparently, not Eastern Europeans.

Personally, I never had something against foreigners just because they are foreigners. When I lived in Ukraine I would have no objections if millions of Poles or say Germans would want to immigrate in Ukraine under condition that they will study Ukrainian well and respect Ukrainians. Immigrants are not a problem by themselves if they assimilate well and don't create a lot of problems.

One more option to delay World population quality crisis would be creation of the anti-aging therapy. But either the acheivements in this field are hightly secretive or insufficient money are allocated for the researches.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Was you born in US?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Already 125!
"The current population of Japan is 125,852,383 as of Saturday, February 12, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data. Japan 2020 population is estimated at 126,476,461 people at mid year according to UN data."

One million less just in two years!
It is predicted that Japan population will diminish to 105 mln. in 2050. Just in 28 years!
worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


It is not only quantity, but quality that matters. What would be the use of 2 billions of savages?


I agree that all not going to happen overnight, but an advanced civilization suppose to think at least 50-100 years in the future... I guess you will not strongly diagree that global slowdown of scientifical, technical, cultural, economic progress already started. Compare general speed of progress in 20-th and 21-st centuries. And at least partially this slowdown could be attributed to demographic changes...


The problem here is that a lot of things could be proposed, but the question is how realistically could it be implemented within the existing system. From what I know up to date no Western country succeeded to ban immigration almost completely or return almost all outsorsed jobs back to country. It means that opposition to such measures is so strong, that it is practically impossible to break through. And quite obvious what kind of opposition it is. Definitely not workers or peasants. Measerus that you mentioned sounded loudly for the last century in all Western countries, but with time it were only the opposite trends which took over. Probably, it is the end of story.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Wan't it been attempted by Trump? What were the ultimate results? For how long it worked out?


This is just the start. In the future it will diminish with increased speed. But I wonder what solution Japanese will ultimately invent for this...


Could you explain and prove it? For now it didn't happen in any country yet.

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Japan is practically closed to immigration, yet its population diminishes.


This is just an empty words. How could it be done without changing the system?


This is one more serious problem, that cooperatives could answer. I think co-ops aren't as likely to ousource their production facilities in other countries with cheaper workforce as sole-proprietorships. Because in some sense they aren't for-profit organizations as a private companies. Have you ever heard about such cases?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Japan, Taiwan or South Korea aren't white, yet their fertility rates are well below replacement levels. It anavoidably happens to any country in which only minority of people are engaged in agriculture. And who therefore outgrowed patriarchal thinking and lifestile. Ultimately it will happen even in Africa. Capitalism will not be able to exist without some extraordinary incentives to encoursge people to have children. Otherwise global population will start to diminish indefinitely.


So what would be your proposition regarding this?

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]

I think, one of the largest disadvantages of modern economic system is that it doesn't create sufficient material incentives for an intelligent people to have enough children. History shows that high fertility rates (ether higher or equal to simple self-reproduction) ary typical only to agrarian type of civilization. Each country or nation which experienced 100+ years of firm, widescale industrialisation irriversbly falls well below level of natural self-reproduction. There is no exeptions. The only solution to this problem which was invented so far is immigration. But industrialized countries like Eastern Europe or China wouldn't be able to supply immigrants forever because ultimately they will start to run out people themselves. Then only agrarian countries remain as the ultimate human power source in modern World. But the problem is that immigrants have to be assimilated. You can take a man out of agrarian country, but you cannot always take an agrarian country out of man. I think those of you who are older than 40 remember times when South Africa was widely known as a developed country. It was the first country in which human heart transplantation was made and famous Fermat Theorem was proved! It was a country which independently (and regardless economic sanctions) developed and created nuclear weapon, but later willingly refused from it! Now all the achievments of this country are not more than a fairy tales to be told to grandchildren. What happened in this country is that well educated people gave birth to 1-2 children while those without education and involved in agriculture gave birth to 5-6 children. The same story going to happen in all other countries. Moreover, current World system assumes that agrarian countries must always remain agrarian and undeveloped in order to have high fertility rates and serve mass immigration suppliers.

One possible solution to this problem is introduction in developed countries not jus big, but HUGE children subsidies for intelligent people (or those who qualify), to seduce them to have more children. But the problem is that according to a common sens and justice only increased taxes on the rich could serve the source of such subsidies. And taxes have to become so high, that basically it would be equal to Socialism. Obviously the rich will resist in all ways possible, starting from capital flight and tax evasion. And an average IQ level in the World will continue to fall idefinitely. Probably if majority of enterprises would be cooperatives it is easier to tax them, than sole-owned entreprises and direct these money to raise intelligent children and give good education to them. Income inequalities in many countries started to reach an absurd levels. For example in USA in 1978 1% of the reachest people consumed 10% of the total national probuct, now they consume 35-40%! And this is just officialy. It doesn't include those capitals which are made in illegal ways (mafia) or hidden from tax inspectors in offshores. This tendency to inequality increase started to get unstoppable. Even some billionaires in US started to recognize it. Now it started to undermine the very culturan and intellectual foundation of Western society. Average performance of student in USA started to fall irreversibly. How modern capitalism could be compatible with scientific and technical progress in long run, if avarage IQ level has constat tendency fall??? Definitely it cannot continue long enough by historical measures...

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Some of their projects were quite successful. For example
Volkswagen (German: [ˈfɔlksˌvaːɡn̩] (audio speaker iconlisten);[Note 1] shortened to VW [faʊˈveː] (audio speaker iconlisten)) is a German motor vehicle manufacturer headquartered in Wolfsburg, Lower Saxony, Germany. Founded in 1937 by the German Labour Front, known for their iconic Beetle, it is the flagship brand of the Volkswagen Group, the largest car maker by worldwide sales in 2016 and 2017.

Thus, Hitler chose to sponsor an all-new, state-owned factory using Ferdinand Porsche's design (with some of Hitler's design suggestions, including an air-cooled engine so nothing could freeze). The intention was that German families could buy the car through a savings scheme ("Fünf Mark die Woche musst du sparen, willst du im eigenen Wagen fahren" - "Five Marks a week you must set aside, if in your own car you wish to ride"), which around 336,000 people eventually paid into.[11] However, the project was not commercially viable, and only government support was able to keep it afloat.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1932%E2%80%931940:_People's_Car_project

Or autobahns:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#History

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Economic democracy isn't the same... Obviously not.

I feel completely comfortable with private property owners. However in 99% of cases private businesses are transfered by inheritance. Children do not always inherit the tallants of their ancestors. Therefore if not-to- bright son inherites bussines of his bright farther (who started business) and manages it, this business will likely start to experience long or not so long period of stagnation, workforce cuts and salaries cuts before it will go bankrupt and all employees will loose their jobs. If transfering property by inheritence is the rule in economy, then there always should be a plenty of companies which stagnate, go bancrupt or consumed by other companies just because their owners-managers are the "princes" without a tallant. And entire economy should always suffer quite a much because of it. In cooperatives on other hand the general managers and directors are elected and employees have always ability to elect person who is the most tallanted of othes, thus avoiding inheritance problem. Therefore entire economy suppose to perform better under economic democracy. Definitely for this the empoyees suppose to have a certain level of proficiency to elect the best manager. Everyone suppose to undrstand selection of candidates on the serious level as a science.


Tell this to post-communist Eastern Europeans

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


They never tried the best they could. They all prohibited or severely restricted cooperatives. Cooperatives are veriety and even mainstream of socialist property form. Therefore no country which prohibits socialist property form could be named fully socialist. In modern Western countries and especially in US or Canada countries like China, USSR or GDR are usually named "communist", not "socialist". And one-party rule is also usually associated with "communism". Personally for me word "communism" is rather utopic and delusional, but if they agreed to use it, this is up to them.

All countries in Europe which fell into Soviet orbit of influence copied system which existed in Stalin's USSR. Well, they had no choice. Hence one-party rule.

"Stalinism represents Stalin's style of governance as opposed to Marxism-Leninism, the socioeconomic system and political ideology implemented by Stalin in the Soviet Union and later adapted by other states based on the ideological Soviet model, such as central planning, nationalization, and one-party state..."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
There were a few notable exceptions, however. For example in Czechoslovak socialist republic:
"In April 1945, the Third Republic was formed, led by a National Front of six parties...The Communists were the big winners in the 1946 elections, taking a total of 114 seats (they ran a separate list in Slovakia). Thereafter, the Soviet Union was disappointed that the government failed to eliminate "bourgeois" influence in the army, expropriate industrialists and large landowners and eliminate parties outside of the "National Front".[9] Hope in Moscow was waning for a Communist victory in the 1948 elections following a May 1947 Kremlin report concluding that "reactionary elements" praising Western democracy had strengthened."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Socialist_Republic#History

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Up to date there was no socialist country in the world. Only Yugoslavia pretended they are tried to build something like this. Salaries there were higher than in USSR, according to some sources. But still unnecessary envolvement of government in economy was still too high there to restrict full potential. Still I respect countries like China and their leaders at least for attempt to build socialism and protecting socialism ideas verbally.


Comrades started to wake up. Who could expect...

The largest credit union in North America:
The Desjardins Group (French: Mouvement Desjardins) is a Canadian financial services cooperative and the largest federation of credit unions (French: caisses populaires) in North America. It was founded in 1900 in Lévis, Quebec by Alphonse Desjardins. As of 2017, Desjardins Group consists of 293 local credit unions operating 1,032 points of service and serving more than seven million members and clients, mostly in the provinces of Quebec and Ontario.

polishforums.com/off-topic/socialism-century-87089

Despite their common origins, the socialist economy of Yugoslavia was much different from the economy of the Soviet Union and the economies of the Eastern Bloc, especially after the Yugoslav-Soviet break-up of 1948. Though they were state-owned enterprises, Yugoslav companies were nominally collectively managed by the employees themselves through workers' self-management, albeit with state oversight dictating wage bills and the hiring and firing of managers

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia#Economy

Off-Topic / Socialism in 21 century? [96]


Has nothing to do with socialism. Majority of capitalist countries experienced either one party rule or dictatorship during its existance. Remember Nazi Germany. Or interwar Poland.