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Posts by Wedle  

Joined: 27 Sep 2011 / Male ♂
Last Post: 27 Feb 2012
Threads: Total: 15 / Live: 1 / Archived: 14
Posts: Total: 490 / Live: 110 / Archived: 380

Speaks Polish?: yes

Displayed posts: 111 / page 3 of 4
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Wedle   
12 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

As an example take Warszawa and Ulica Puławska it's a nightmare between 5 and 7pm to get anywhere.! However it does not help when drivers ignore what traffic lights are for either :)

Beliall, Pulawska is not a very good example as it stretches from the centrum all the way to Piaseczno proper (route 79) it is a nightmare from 7.30 am to 10 am and 3.30 pm to 7.30pm although there are two ways to Circumnavigate the road block.

why does every 3rd member on this thread seem to have resentment towards milky?

Milky, is alright he brings his point to the table, as the protaganist of doom and gloom sooner or later the Pendulum will swing to his side, boom is always followed by bust.Poland is not unique or recession proof, she has already had two recessions since the begging of RP3.
Wedle   
12 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

still no bubble.

This is the confusion PIP, as there are two American schools in Warsaw, one in Kabaty and the other one next to GTC. There is also the Israeli project across the street from GTC and they have discounted their prices by up to 40%.Everyone in the real estate industry in Warsaw knows that prices in the burbs are sinking quickly. So for you to suggest they are not is wrong PIP. Be honest please.
Wedle   
13 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

And if you drive by you can see on their signs that they offer a mini cooper if you buy a new house.

This what I mentioned

So for you to suggest they are not is wrong PIP. Be honest please.

You know exactly the project I am talking about it is on the the opposite side of the road to GTC and they slashed their properties by 40% on phase 1.Regarding Osiedle Konstancja [konstancja.pl] I am sure that if I walked in today and negotiated for a house of any size I would at least get a 20% discount, especially if it was built. That whole area from Zawady to Konstancin strefa A has seen big price falls. Konstancin-Jeziorna has been the worst hit. You know this as well as I do PIP, so please we should keep to the facts.

Euro-denominated debt isn't looking too popular in central Europe these days, with spreads in Hungarian and Polish euro bonds widening over the yields of dollar bonds with the same maturities.

Hungary - and to a lesser extent Poland - have been suffering from their exposure to the economies and banking systems of the euro zone.

blogs.reuters.com/globalinvesting/2011/12/12/euro-debt-toxic-in-central-europe-too/

13/12/2012

1 Euro - PLN 4.55
1 USD - PLN 3.46
Wedle   
13 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

with all due respect sir, I live in this area. I know exactly how much the houses are here. Osiedle Konstancja is still selling 2.5 to 3.5 million. There are osiedle's in Zawaday still at 2.5. The prices are not dropping. In my osiedle- the prices are exactly the same as they were two years ago.

There are houses in Zawady that have been for sale for the last 5 years and can't sell.

The prices being offered today in all of the following have dropped from 2008

harmonium.sjm.pl
konstancja.pl

Rezydencja królewska

The prices all over Warsaw have dropped because there was a price bubble ( inflated price which was not sustainable). We own 8 apartments in mainly high end residences in the centrum/Zoliborz/Mokotow dolny, most of them bought between 1997 to 2006 with the exception of one that was finished in 2008. In all of these properties if I sold today I would receive less than what my neighbors have sold for previously. We also have a house that is rented out to a company in Zoliborz stare, if I sold it today I would receive less per m2 than my neighbors have sold for in the past, the house two doors away has been on the market for 7.8 mil for nearly 18 months with no buyer, he dropped it from 9 mil. Having invested in real estate since 1993 in Poland, I considered myself quite knowledgeable about the warsaw market.Out of all the people I know personally in Warsaw involved in residential real estate either investors or developers, not one person has informed me that their Warsaw property investments have not gone down in value since the 2008 crisis began. I understand that real estate is an alternative asset class,there is no exchange to determine prices's like the stock market for example, prices are set by buyers( price paid) not by developers asking price.

The claim that your Osiedle has not seen any price drop, leads me to believe I should be seeking your advice for my future selections.
Wedle   
13 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

i don't want to give too much of my personal information.

understandable.

Do you mean Harmonian Pip?

Harmonian is the one opposite the ASOW, the prices there went from 2.5 Mil to around 1.5 Mil last year.

i am curious about the prices of osiedle patio-

Osiedle Patio close by the Botanical gardens dates back to about 2000-2002 if I m correct, they also sold plots, as the houses are not uniformed as in Konstancja. I have not followed the prices there I remember seeing houses for around the 1-1.2Mil then they seemed to jump to around 1.5-2Mil mark in the heady days. There was a large parcel of agricultural land sold around 2003 that was bought up individual groups who have changed the status to budowlana. in Klarysew at the top by the forest. I am sure they will all start building or selling soon.

(I'm looking to buy a bigger place) but I doubt that the prices for what I want (70+ metres, pre-1960, in the ghetto) are going to fall much further.

There was a building which was built around 2002/3 on ul Nalewki, I have seen some apartments being offered there at good prices, its a good location 5 mins walk to Rat Arsenal metro, 2 streets away from the Ghetto monument. The sizes go up to 110 m2

(70+ metres, pre-1960, in the ghetto)

Most of the flats in the Ghetto are 26-56 m2, may be very difficult to find a 70+ pre 1960.
Wedle   
14 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

If you have got euros to invest today, taking into consideration that the average EUR/PLN was about 3.80-1 over the last 2-3 years. At Euro/PLN 4.6-1 plus the decrease in prices 10-12% you are already close to - 30%.
Wedle   
14 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

But the Euro sitting at 4.6 certainly isn't normal or based on reality - it's likely to swing back to 4:1 very quickly.

I was reading it would be at 4.85 in 2012 Q1, the PL gov have stated they would like to see it at 4.1, but thats all smoke and mirrors.
Wedle   
26 Dec 2011
Life / Fat People in Poland? [161]

Which kind of begs the question: is it the food?

It is quite bizarre, Poland has some of the best natural and organic products at a snip of other European countries, yet they the youth still want to chow out on super sized american junk food. In Warsaw it is cool to be slim, they go off to the gym most days, then you can see them come out and go for a Mc attack. It beggars belief...
Wedle   
28 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

Just caught the tail end of the news(panorama) on Polish TV, they are predicting a 30% drop in real-estate prices.

You will need to supply a youtube clip for that one Milky. I believe real estate prices will slow down in 2012, maybe 2013 we could see a bigger slow down, during Euro 2012 a lot of second home owners in the main Polish cities will be able to rent their places short term and generate enough money to cover a whole year of mortgage. There are just not enough hotels in Poland. Regular flats in good locations will be rented for 50-70 per person during Euro 2012. Apartments in good locations will be competing with 4/5 * hotel prices.Football fans who are prepared to pay 1,000 Euro for a ticket don't give a sh1t about paying 100Euro per night +. This revenue will support the real estate market, if there was no Euro 2012 more of these people would be loosing there buy to lets.
Wedle   
29 Dec 2011
Life / Fat People in Poland? [161]

Yeah because they just dont know yet, they dont know - what we know. In Poland its totally cool to eat McDonalds and KFC

California is poised to be the first state with mandatory GMO labeling laws through the 2012 California Ballot Initiative process.
Polls show support to get this initiative on the ballot & voted in. Over 80% of those polled supported mandatory labeling.
A win for the California Initiative would be a huge blow to biotech and a huge victory for food activists.
Monsanto and their minions have billions invested in GMOs and they are willing to spend millions to defeat this initiative.
California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Labeling laws in CA will effect packaging and ingredient decisions nation-wide.
The bill has been carefully written to ensure that it will not increase costs to consumers or producers.

organicconsumers.org/monsanto/index.cfm
Wedle   
29 Dec 2011
Life / Fat People in Poland? [161]

Polish minister calls for Europe-wide GM ban

gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/13386-polish-minister-calls-for-europe-wide-gm-ban

EC takes Poland to court for GMO ban

wbj.pl/article-53705-ec-takes-poland-to-court-for-gmo-ban.html

Polish president vetoes bill allowing GMO seeds

reuters.com/article/2011/08/24/us-poland-gmo-idUSTRE77N50D20110824
Wedle   
29 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Residential real estate values go down in Poland [455]

[quote=delphiandomine]My own feeling is that we might see prices actually increase in the small towns within 30-45 minutes train ride from the big cities. Property is still ridiculously cheap in those places, and young people especially will want to get a property somehow, even if it's not in such a desirable location.[/quote

When we take into consideration Polish real estate trends, I can only speak from the my own experience in Warsaw. When I first came to Poland in the early 90's I talked to people who decided to sell their 30-50 m2 flats in 1st and 2nd tier areas of Warsaw in order to move out to areas like Konstanscin, Podkowa, Lomianki, Anin and Piasecno. It was great for families with young kids up to 4/5 years old. As soon as the kids hit school age the parents realised that the locals schools were not up to the mark and the only schools for their children were in Warsaw proper, many decided to sell their houses just as the market went into meltdown in 1997. So they were stuck with a 1-2 hour drive in to Warsaw each morning from the suburbs. Those that had a little money bought 2-3 room flats in Warsaw again, lived in them monday to friday and back home for the long weekend. Things have not changed here the best schools are still in or around the centrum, with the exception of a few International schools that are for the higher echelons of society. The same trend is the world over, people will always gravitate to the areas with the best schools. As much as I dream about a better rail and road service in Warsaw and Poland, we are still a way off the infrastructure of schools, hospitals. rail and roads being built. If you are in your 20's or early 30's and are buying for the long term- why not !

If not it is all about location, location, location.

Getting back to your quote, when prices are going down in the centrum areas of a city in Poland, they are going down twice as quick in the burbs.

Unless you live in ' Pips ' osiedle of course.

have agreed over the past 3 years that there would be a fall/correction in prices due to the credit scenario

Exactly house prices are NOT in fact determined by the balance of supply and demand, but by how much money lenders are willing to lend.

If there is eventual increases in interest rates further down the line, and no return to the days of easy lending, mean that house prices will fall for several years to come.In theory house prices have to keep falling until they get back to long-term norms of about three or four times earnings. we shall wait and see...
Wedle   
30 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

Maybe someone can point me in a good direction or tell me about his/her experiences, thanks a lot

If you are not in the country, you will have to find a letting agency, then hope they are telling you the truth about the rental. The first question to ask yourself is what could I do with the money if I sold the place, if you are in the USA for example the money would go a long way in the current market conditions. The second question is do I really want the hassle of being a landlord in Poland, you will have to register your income from rental and pay tax in Poland, there will be costs for the flat every month, that you will have to pay wether the flat is rented or not.

The apartment is quite big for polish standard I guess (~70 square metres)

This is not big and I would guess it needs a full remont if an elderly person has been living in it.

in my opinion the latter option would be better as I expect the property prices to go up quite a bit.

What do you base your assumption on Par, Polish real estate prices are on their way down I do not see any fundamental reason for real estate prices to rise quite a bit over the next 2-3 years. I believe you will find most people with a little knowledge of the market expect prices to level out at best over the coming years.

If you send me details of what,where (street ) and an indication of condition of the flat, I can get some info for you.
Wedle   
31 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

Your talking like a cowboy real estate agent ready to take advantage of somebody who hasn't accessed accurate information,

I am not a real estate agent.

firstly you don't know where and the condition of the apartment, it may be in a perfect location and well maintained.

This exactly what I have mentioned in my post.

Best advice would be to let it out to family or friends at a norminal price (cover all costs) and wait till the real estate market takes on.. could be a wrong decision to sell just now.

It all depends on what you can do with the money, if they have deep pockets and they don't need the money why not keep hold of it. We don't know their financial position.

We live in the EU, so the money transfer would be pretty simple, however we would lose a lot through currency conversion.

Here is a link with prices of flats next to sky tower
mieszkania.trovit.pl/sky-tower-wrocław

Why would you loose money through currency conversion?
Wedle   
31 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

I rest my case: foreign owners of Polish real estate should thin of themselves more as currency traders, than landlords.

So based on the above your strategy would be to liquidate your real estate holdings and trade the PLN-Euro/USD/GBP for the foreseeable future.
Wedle   
31 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

So basically, if I understand you correctly if you inherited 1 Mln PLN today, you would not touch Polish real estate, you would play the currency market PLN/-USD/EUR/GBP. Just trying to get the facts straight.

Prices doubled in 2004/5 on the Polish credit boom. There won't be credit-driven price growth any time soon

Exactly, nothing to do with supply and demand, driven by easy access to finance.
Wedle   
31 Dec 2011
Real Estate / Property taxation in Poland and inheritance (obligated by law to pay)? [32]

WP, this is the second time on this thread you get yourself into a spat, people follow different investment approaches, some are passive like yourself others are a little more aggressive like okayokok, it would also seem OK is prepared to back his argument with third party facts, I see nothing from you except your emotional POV.
Wedle   
4 Jan 2012
History / Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula in Poland [21]

Which of the following do you consider the most factual book related to the ' Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula, ' ?

Zamoyski

Warsaw 1920: Lenin's Failed Conquest of Europe

Davies

White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula
Wedle   
4 Jan 2012
History / Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula in Poland [21]

What's your interest in it?

I will be in the UK next week and I am looking for some books on 20th century Polish history for my godson, he is 17, a complete History of Poland (Davies) is too comprehensive,the books I have chosen on my shortlist are as follows:

White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula or Warsaw 1920: Lenin's Failed Conquest of Europe
Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin Timothy Snyder
No Greater ally Kenneth K Koskodan

Is there a second edition of
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-1920 and The Miracle on the Vistula?
Wedle   
4 Jan 2012
History / Battle of Warsaw/Miracle at the Vistula in Poland [21]

I'm not sure if there's a 2nd edition of WERS

The original was written about 30-35 years ago, I read somewhere a revised edition had been released

Michener's "Poland"

I will read some reviews on the above and maybe I can find a couple of pages on line to get a brief, thanks for the feedback any other ides I am all ears,
Wedle   
6 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

he'd know how quickly this inscription is becoming a thing of the past.

I think 2 to 3 out of 10 is quite accurate.

I live in a high end Rezydencja in Warsaw there are a total of 22 Villa apartments, the residents are made up of Polish intelligentsia, foreign diplomats and business people. At least 60% have the blessing ' Christus Mansionem Benedicat ' on their doors. Furthermore I have just returned from the Stare Miasto with my family, after visiting church for the Epiphany service, we spoke to the priest and he informed us that all over Warsaw the services have seen larger than average gatherings. So lets just keep to the facts, more people are actually coming back to the church especially in these times of economic uncertainty, just because you have not seen the blessings on the exterior doors, does not mean the houses have not been blessed, the local priest will visit over the next two weeks, and will conduct a blessing of the house while there, so some people choose not to put the inscription on their doors.

So for you non Polish Atheists in Poland, ask yourself a simple question, how many Polish family homes have you visited and not seen, some form religious insignia ? I do not know one.Then again I do not mix with people who are involved in trendy lifestyles and are fashionably against the church...

Such piousd practices including the opłatek sharing, blessing of Easter baskets and blessing of newlweds-to-be by their parents before heading for church are enriching, heart-warming touches that set Poland apart

Polonious3, you are 100% correct, Polish traditions are what set Poland apart from other countries, although Poland is very materialistic as well.
Wedle   
6 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

Is 50zł still ok or should I offer more, inflation being what it is and all?

As I understand in Poland,you give what you can afford there is no set fee.
Wedle   
6 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

Half of the people who let them do it aren't remotely religious but don't want gossip and an earbashing from the priest's post-menopausal fan club who come round the block with him while he's doing it - more to see inside their neighbours's homes than any act of faith.

I don't know what you are talking about here JonnyM, it is only the priest that visits your home, there is no gathering,someone in the building arranges the time for the neighbors and he visits everyone individually, it is a private blessing for the household only.
Wedle   
6 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

Ha! My friends moved to Skierniewice and the wife came home from work to find the priest interrogating her husband about their household income and standing there with a calculator telling him how much they have to pay. And some people actually fall for that!

I think a lot of people talk sh1t about what the church expects, I have also heard that it is a ' shame on you ' to give anything less than 20 PLN per family when visiting church on Sundays. As a family of four we give the small change we have in our pockets, normally between 5-10 PLN. We assist other families through the church, who have real needs, not because we feel morally bound to do it, more because we want to do it.

I have also been at dinner parties and having drinks with Polish people, when they start to joke about what the priest requested, I have never experienced that in Poland so I can't confirm or deny, although I think mostly it is just ' tall stories'.

Not in my block - there's a crowd of coffin dodging old bags and their long-suffering husbands who come with him.

We have had different experience's in Poland, your experience sounds more like being on the receiving end ' Hyacinth Bucket ' from keeping up appearances.
Wedle   
6 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

The thing about priests in Poland is that they represent a cross section of the male society.

The above is a fair point, I am not going to suggest for a moment that all priests are good ones, there is enough factual stories to prove that some priests over the years have abused their positions, in 2012 who can you trust, can we trust politicians, bankers,doctors,lawyers,accountants, 20 years ago if you qualified in any of these professions, you would be considered a pillar of your community, a forthright person. It is even worse in the USA, you can actually get ordained online: themonastery.org/?destination=ordination
Wedle   
7 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

It also works both ways Pip, if foreigners choose to settle in Poland, until the point they have been given Polish passports they are guests of the country and should therefore act accordingly and respect the tradition and values of the host nation, as a good guest should. If I invited someone into my home I expect them to follow the rules of our home, if they are rude or made negative comments about our family traditions,beliefs or values, they would be asked to leave and NOT return.

I don't think people are returning to religion because of the economic times but rather as a way of returning to the culture- less McDonalds- so to speak.

I can see your angle on a culture-less McDonalds society, it reminds me of a true story about an English guy in Warsaw, every time he would pass the McDonalds with his two boys, he would shout out ' its the devils food ' this became a family joke,his boys are now 11 and 17 and do not eat Mc Donalds, the English guy is a agnostic, so it was not about religious beliefs.. In respect of economic uncertainty and increasing church attendence's. Recession turns peoples lives upside down. It helps them realize that they don't have a sufficiency unto themselves. Not having a job, not being able to pay the monthly bills, wondering where the grocery money will come from, these are all things that cause even those that are furthest from God to question their own self-sufficiency. They come to a point where they realize that they can't do it by themselves and seek a higher power.
Wedle   
7 Jan 2012
Life / K+M+B-2012 - formula on flats in Poland [63]

God forbid saying the same thing to a Pole abroad though - we all know how they only choose to respect the bits they like.

I quite often visit the UK, therefore it is quite easy to stay in touch with the reality of what is ' moving on ' in my country of Birth. I can imagine it would be very difficult to stay in touch with reality, if you only used the internet,newspapers or others peoples point of view as your source of real information. With time all tradition and values become more modernized with the next generation, this is what is called progress. Some people are willing to accept it, others believe nothing will change unless they change it, then one day they must wake up...

Your home is your possession, and one which you have worked hard to acquire.

Agreed, many of us have worked very hard to purchase our property here in Poland, with no leg up from family.

I'm told that opium sales also go up during recessions.

This may also be true, I have no source or statistics, people will find a solace or escape in many different ways.