Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Yeah...why should he change a story he kept alive for more than 50 years now?
Do you think that would endear him to patriotic Poles like you???
Get real man!
All this "the big bad mean Germans made me do it" was an Europe-wide mantra.....after the war was over that is ("Victory has many fathers - Defeat is an orphan"!).
Really astounding that the german forces got one step over the border at all dragging all these unwilling, forced, secretly hostile soldiers with them!
Yeah...why should he change a story he kept alive for more than 50 years now?
Do you think that would endear him to patriotic Poles like you???
Get real man!
All this "the big bad mean Germans made me do it" was an Europe-wide mantra.....after the war was over that is ("Victory has many fathers - Defeat is an orphan"!).
Really astounding that the german forces got one step over the border at all dragging all these unwilling, forced, secretly hostile soldiers with them!
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Well, he was a German of Kashubian roots....eligible for the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS, as thousands others!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians#Notable_Kashubians
Not even that if he had told the truth that this would had meant in afterwar Poland misery/expellation/gulag/death for him and his family?
Grass was a German from Gdańsk - if he had been Kashubian he would have
spoken Kashubian or Polish (very similar languages) not German as he did.
spoken Kashubian or Polish (very similar languages) not German as he did.
Well, he was a German of Kashubian roots....eligible for the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS, as thousands others!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians#Notable_Kashubians
Ludwig Yorck von Wartenburg (1759-1830) Prussian Field Marshal of the Napoleonic era
Günter Grass (1927- ) Nobel Prize-winning German author of Kashubian descent
Günter Grass (1927- ) Nobel Prize-winning German author of Kashubian descent
I have no reason to dibelief my neighbours
Not even that if he had told the truth that this would had meant in afterwar Poland misery/expellation/gulag/death for him and his family?
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Well, nobody forced them so subscribe to the Volksliste as Germans....their decision!
Yeah, that's exactly the problem...if the Nazis had won they would had told stories how brave
they fought against the opressing Poles and how they suffered under polish rule.
(Seriously, what do you expect people to say who wanted to survive in Poland as the Germans left? The truth????)
Truth was that nobody was forced or beaten to subscribe...and you had to bring some evidence about your roots.
Be careful with what people told AFTER the war was over....Europe then was suddenly full of victims and resisters - no Nazi or collaborateur in sight anymore!
One famous Kashubian everybody knows is Günther Grass....who ended the war in the Waffen-SS as German...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass
Some Germans :-)
Well, nobody forced them so subscribe to the Volksliste as Germans....their decision!
Because I know quite a few,
and I've heard the stories of them and their families
and I've heard the stories of them and their families
Yeah, that's exactly the problem...if the Nazis had won they would had told stories how brave
they fought against the opressing Poles and how they suffered under polish rule.
(Seriously, what do you expect people to say who wanted to survive in Poland as the Germans left? The truth????)
Truth was that nobody was forced or beaten to subscribe...and you had to bring some evidence about your roots.
Be careful with what people told AFTER the war was over....Europe then was suddenly full of victims and resisters - no Nazi or collaborateur in sight anymore!
One famous Kashubian everybody knows is Günther Grass....who ended the war in the Waffen-SS as German...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
If you mean german soldiers of the german Wehrmacht coming from german towns and villages in what became Poland after the Treaty of Versailles you are quite wrong. They fighted as well or bad as all Germans did...
With the Osttruppen or eastern volunteers it was more like it...
Generally it can be said, Germans or western volunteers served with distinction - eastern troops did not.
(I'm right now reading "Blood and Iron", Manstein's campaign of Sevastopol in '42 - he had german troops and romanians...boy were they bad (the Romanians)! )
amazon.com/Blood-Iron-German-Conquest-Sevastopol/dp/1574887963
Polish soldiers of Wehrmacht
If you mean german soldiers of the german Wehrmacht coming from german towns and villages in what became Poland after the Treaty of Versailles you are quite wrong. They fighted as well or bad as all Germans did...
With the Osttruppen or eastern volunteers it was more like it...
Generally it can be said, Germans or western volunteers served with distinction - eastern troops did not.
(I'm right now reading "Blood and Iron", Manstein's campaign of Sevastopol in '42 - he had german troops and romanians...boy were they bad (the Romanians)! )
amazon.com/Blood-Iron-German-Conquest-Sevastopol/dp/1574887963
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Agreed, but neither were they Poles (at the time of their conscription that is, regardless what they later told at gunpoint as POWs as some of them were offered to survive if they "desert" and join the polish forces next)
So the 89,300 Harry quoted were not volunteers and I rest my case well argued by you. :)
Agreed, but neither were they Poles (at the time of their conscription that is, regardless what they later told at gunpoint as POWs as some of them were offered to survive if they "desert" and join the polish forces next)
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Again:
Volunteers (Germans and Foreigners): Waffen-SS (or Ost-truppen like ROA)
Conscripts (Germans only): Wehrmacht
It's that easy, really! ;)
So, if we go by this criteria, than the "volunteers" in Werhmaht were not Poles either.
Again:
Volunteers (Germans and Foreigners): Waffen-SS (or Ost-truppen like ROA)
Conscripts (Germans only): Wehrmacht
It's that easy, really! ;)
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Not with Himmler, that's the point!
He didn't tried to recruit them for the SS as Poles, but as of german stock...
The same with the so called forcefully conscripted Kashubes....many of them were eligible for the Volksliste I and II. Conscription was as forcefully for them as for all other Germans...
Poland at that time was a newborn-multi ethnic society with many different allegiances of it's citizens through the founding of this state after the treaty of Versailles and it's doubtful and stupid border drawing.
Being polish citizen then didn't meant automatically loyalty to this polish state or government...millions weren't even asked or if asked decided to not fight for this Poland.
That was also a reality of Poland '39...
Gorale are Polish
Not with Himmler, that's the point!
He didn't tried to recruit them for the SS as Poles, but as of german stock...
The same with the so called forcefully conscripted Kashubes....many of them were eligible for the Volksliste I and II. Conscription was as forcefully for them as for all other Germans...
Poland at that time was a newborn-multi ethnic society with many different allegiances of it's citizens through the founding of this state after the treaty of Versailles and it's doubtful and stupid border drawing.
Being polish citizen then didn't meant automatically loyalty to this polish state or government...millions weren't even asked or if asked decided to not fight for this Poland.
That was also a reality of Poland '39...
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
They became deserters mostly as they got to decide between shot, POW cage or "desertion to the polish forces".
Am I speaking chinese here????
There was never a plan to build one in the first place!
Research the foreign Waffen-SS recruitments and you will see why.
There was no place for an independent/collaborating Poland after a victory of the Nazis...what should the Poles fight for in such a Waffen-SS unit?
They deserted because they didn't like the uniforms or they weren't volunteers in the first place?
They became deserters mostly as they got to decide between shot, POW cage or "desertion to the polish forces".
Am I speaking chinese here????
Germans had no problem in forming Waffen SS units of division strenght in most of Europe. In Poland, no, why not?
There was never a plan to build one in the first place!
Research the foreign Waffen-SS recruitments and you will see why.
There was no place for an independent/collaborating Poland after a victory of the Nazis...what should the Poles fight for in such a Waffen-SS unit?
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Heh:)
I stand corrected!
After thouroughly inspection that badge clearly sports the polish colors adorned with a big fat SS sign...that's the proof! :)
I doubt it's about the numbers, they are surely correct!
But fact was only Germans could be conscripted into the Wehrmacht...so all these "Deserters" (it was probably a decision of life "Guys, I'm one of you Poles - the mean Germans made me do it!!!" and death "german POW" for those) were GERMANS not POLES!
I don't see why that is so hard to accept...
Heh:)
I stand corrected!
After thouroughly inspection that badge clearly sports the polish colors adorned with a big fat SS sign...that's the proof! :)
The number 89,300 is given by Dr Mark Ostrowski in this book. That author says here that his source for the figures about the number of Polish troops is British War Office and he then goes on to say that as the British War Office had to pay for the troops, they'd be the people who know the numbers. Of course if you have any specific quotes from any other respected historians, I'd love to read them.
I doubt it's about the numbers, they are surely correct!
But fact was only Germans could be conscripted into the Wehrmacht...so all these "Deserters" (it was probably a decision of life "Guys, I'm one of you Poles - the mean Germans made me do it!!!" and death "german POW" for those) were GERMANS not POLES!
I don't see why that is so hard to accept...
Bratwurst Boy
11 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
I've heard they have an extra room about the brutal conscriptions of Bavarians already...;)
Also - what does The Holocaust Museum have to do with forceful conscription
of Kashubians into German Army??
of Kashubians into German Army??
I've heard they have an extra room about the brutal conscriptions of Bavarians already...;)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Yeah sure....after the war was lost they were all victims....all had been forced at gunpoint and were secretly all always saboteurs and resisters....suuuuuure....
*takes helmet*
Yeah sure....after the war was lost they were all victims....all had been forced at gunpoint and were secretly all always saboteurs and resisters....suuuuuure....
*takes helmet*
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Interesting!
Especially in the light as Nietzsche is one of the most important heroes of Hitler.
He molded his "survival of the fittest" race - ideology on him...;)
PS: You Poles should really start to look to your own heroes instead of those of your neighbours! :)
You can consider that to be your favorite quote from now on. :)
Interesting!
Especially in the light as Nietzsche is one of the most important heroes of Hitler.
He molded his "survival of the fittest" race - ideology on him...;)
PS: You Poles should really start to look to your own heroes instead of those of your neighbours! :)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Imagine if they would had had DNA tests and research then already....
Imagine if they would had had DNA tests and research then already....
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
That was more Himmler's pet project....crazy guy!
Not Tibet???
;)
(I mean I'm all for heritage research but some ideas of him....hmmm...)
Hitler viewed Górale as not Polish but Germanic.
That was more Himmler's pet project....crazy guy!
Himmler thought Aryans descended from Atlantis. :)
Not Tibet???
;)
(I mean I'm all for heritage research but some ideas of him....hmmm...)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
No Jola, there was never even a try to form a "POLISH" Waffen-SS unit....the only try was with former polish citizens which were called by Himmler of "german roots" suddenly...
These are the fine but important differences....;)
No Jola, there was never even a try to form a "POLISH" Waffen-SS unit....the only try was with former polish citizens which were called by Himmler of "german roots" suddenly...
These are the fine but important differences....;)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Germans, Harry....Volksdeutsche.
Absolutely! :)
And no amount of insults aimed at me will change the fact that at least 89,300 Poles volunteered for the German armed forces.
Germans, Harry....Volksdeutsche.
You see, it pays to be nice to us ;)
Absolutely! :)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Well...I'm quite sure had Hitler been smarter and advertised the anti-communist fight more and opened the way for Poles to ally themselves with a not-so-Slavs/subhuman-Nazi-Germany there would had been collaboration....and why not?
There was alot of collaboration in the whole of Europe going on...not so much FOR the Nazis as rather AGAINST Stalin's communists (of course after the war was over most of it was quickly erased out of the official narrative - till recently that is).
Had the Nazis been smarter...well..it wouldn't had been the Nazis then...
Well...I'm quite sure had Hitler been smarter and advertised the anti-communist fight more and opened the way for Poles to ally themselves with a not-so-Slavs/subhuman-Nazi-Germany there would had been collaboration....and why not?
There was alot of collaboration in the whole of Europe going on...not so much FOR the Nazis as rather AGAINST Stalin's communists (of course after the war was over most of it was quickly erased out of the official narrative - till recently that is).
Had the Nazis been smarter...well..it wouldn't had been the Nazis then...
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
It's all a matter of interpretation really!
Fact 1) There was never a try to form a polish Waffen-SS, as Poland also was never allowed to govern themselves or to collaborate in other form as other occupied countries.
Fact 2) Former polish citizens (Volksdeutsche or curious now-not-anymore-Poles ) were tried to bring into line with differing success.
Remember, even Russians fighted alongside the german troops (Vlassov army).
feldgrau.com/rvol.html
The German's attempt to for a Polish Waffen SS unit failed miserably.
It's all a matter of interpretation really!
Fact 1) There was never a try to form a polish Waffen-SS, as Poland also was never allowed to govern themselves or to collaborate in other form as other occupied countries.
Fact 2) Former polish citizens (Volksdeutsche or curious now-not-anymore-Poles ) were tried to bring into line with differing success.
But - according to Harry - Poles wanted to!!! But, poor poopsies, couldn't. What a shame.
Remember, even Russians fighted alongside the german troops (Vlassov army).
feldgrau.com/rvol.html
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Damn
*slinks back into corner*
Bratwurtski, piłeś again!
This is free bashing Poland thread!!!!
This is free bashing Poland thread!!!!
Damn
*slinks back into corner*
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]
"Krawatte" and "Ansicht('skarte)" ? ;)
(i.e. "kravatt" for neck-tie, "anzix" for postcard)
"Krawatte" and "Ansicht('skarte)" ? ;)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Taliban are Jews (probably)
(sorrydidn'tknowwheretopostthat)
jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1262339436797&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Isn't that interesting!
;)
Taliban are Jews (probably)
(sorrydidn'tknowwheretopostthat)
jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1262339436797&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Isn't that interesting!
Are the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan descendants of an Israelite tribe that migrated across Asia after it was exiled over 2,700 years ago? ....
....
I also hope that such effort will have positive ramifications and will bring the Muslims and Jews close and enable them to forget historical animosity," Navras wrote.
I also hope that such effort will have positive ramifications and will bring the Muslims and Jews close and enable them to forget historical animosity," Navras wrote.
;)
Bratwurst Boy
10 Jan 2010
Language / Slovio - the international simplified Slavic language [37]
Yeah...I had a good laugh about this too!
Must be from Crowie....:):):)
hey also have very good information about the origins of Slavic people:
Yeah...I had a good laugh about this too!
Must be from Crowie....:):):)
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
Why?
Are you then going to take over to care for children in need?
But that Jugendamnt should be closed
Why?
Are you then going to take over to care for children in need?
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
One race....and german girls obviously!
Amen.
One race....and german girls obviously!
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
Hey...I'm going by what you are telling here...german girls seem to preoccupy your brain...(no wonder though)! ;)
They are preaching to you...you observe them wandering away with blacks...
Couldn't get one for yourself??? Poor kid...
Believe what you want though.
Hey...I'm going by what you are telling here...german girls seem to preoccupy your brain...(no wonder though)! ;)
They are preaching to you...you observe them wandering away with blacks...
Couldn't get one for yourself??? Poor kid...
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
I had a good laugh about that one too!
Which one? The same what just before "preached" to you (and your friend) about the beauty of her white race???
You are one sick kid, aren't you...
....you seem to have a thing for german girls though...
Hey, a South African is teaching the Germans about racism.
I had a good laugh about that one too!
Perhaps you guys are secretly racists yourselves and you got really furious when I said the German girl is getting screwed by a black guy hehe.
Which one? The same what just before "preached" to you (and your friend) about the beauty of her white race???
You are one sick kid, aren't you...
....you seem to have a thing for german girls though...
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
*nods*
Now that sounds more plausible!
ROFLMAO,
hey Hickman, I know all about you and your mad cause! Your children are far better of without a madman like you, seriously!
Your ex-wife made the only right choice!
Your children must be guarded AGAINST you, you are crazy man!
But they have grown up happily and healthy without you by now....
It seems that the guy has beaten his ex wife and his kids in the past, and the Jugendamt overreacted afterwards with their way of providing "child protection".
*nods*
Now that sounds more plausible!
Merkel Regime
ROFLMAO,
hey Hickman, I know all about you and your mad cause! Your children are far better of without a madman like you, seriously!
Your ex-wife made the only right choice!
Your children must be guarded AGAINST you, you are crazy man!
But they have grown up happily and healthy without you by now....
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
I tried actually as I worked through this thread before and I found nothing, absolutely nothing!
If there would be a reasonable case the papers would had been all over it..
Can you google this guy in your press?
I tried actually as I worked through this thread before and I found nothing, absolutely nothing!
If there would be a reasonable case the papers would had been all over it..
Bratwurst Boy
9 Jan 2010
News / German legal discrimination against Polish speakers [209]
Not if he plans a kidnapping or else....
Children of bi-national marriages seem more often to be in danger to get kidnapped by one parent and brought away out of the country. That needs planning.
Maybe the official guardians want really to control what he talks about with his children...honestly that is the only reason I can see here.
I don't think they are doing anything illegally though!
It's a dirty war where all weapons are used...the victims are the children!
...probably only his stupidity!
It appears that they want to control what he talks about with his kids though, and that's what I would object to.
Not if he plans a kidnapping or else....
Children of bi-national marriages seem more often to be in danger to get kidnapped by one parent and brought away out of the country. That needs planning.
Maybe the official guardians want really to control what he talks about with his children...honestly that is the only reason I can see here.
However, there are other nationals with the same problem, so maybe it is the social services are throwing their weight around in an illegal manner.
I don't think they are doing anything illegally though!
Supervised visits are demening and often result of the woman's lies. This is common in all countries.
It's a dirty war where all weapons are used...the victims are the children!
I share your disgust.
...probably only his stupidity!