Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


Well, I'm against dismissing stereotypes as some kind of hallucination so easily.

Most stereotypes (war time propaganda of course not) develop over a time as people travel and meet each other.

Each country has positive and negative stereotypes but generalized there is a reason for them....

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


Really!

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]

Ach Manno!

:)

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


"Romantic" springs to mind...

Poles are (I think) much more romantic...everything clear cut good or evil, black or white, loving fairy tale struggles with happy end of the white knight in the shining armor...always asking to be disappointed because pragmatism and a more realistic outlook is not so popular.

Stereotypes I know...but I don't know if they are that off!

Good about that is that it means a high value about honor and loyalty.
Bad about that is that it often leads to annoying (for others), stubborn behavior, often not helping if it is about international relationships.
Problems to compromise...It's often either "all" or "nothing", being sensitive like a Diva!

*ducks*

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]

"unable"! I meant unable to compromise

*darn typo*

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


No, even if both know exactly where the other side is coming from...it doesn't matter as both because of their similiarity are unable to compromise, to step back voluntarily regarding a fight over something...they are to similiar.

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


I disagree heartily! ;)

Closeness, similiarity is one of the main reasons for wars!
If for example two people feel the same strong feelings about something, stemming from similiar values, similiar outlooks, it's hard for one of them to step back if they fight over something, so they have to clash...

Nobody there to keep a "cool head" or to look for other ways of compromise etc.

Understanding why the other has this opinion and feels righteous isn't going to help if you feel exactly the same, only for your side, and you always want your side to win!

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


Well (thanks for the links *grin*) I would say knowledge, even intimate knowledge, isn't the problem here. One only needs to live between, immersed in the other culture or at least have a huge interest to learn.

Understanding is something else (hence my question).

In my opinon it needs at least a huge part of empathy and even similiarity (in outlook, values and attitude to life) to understand the other.

For example even if one knows why the other culture did what she did in one event, in one time (or members of it), it doesn't mean that you yourself, with your roots in another culture, would act the same...

But to answer the question, yes it is possible for a foreigner to understand another culture...sometimes even better than his own if the adopted, even preferred, culture is much more fitting ones own values and attitudes..

Life / Can foreigners really understand Poles? [136]


Define "understanding" please...

History / Poland's General Anders and one of the biggest "What Ifs?" of WW2 [31]


Oh and when during a war one side loses 10 million soldiers (even with allies and lend lease etc) and the other 3 million during the same time (even having to divert forces to another front ...who would you say got a "spanking" by a superior army?

Yes, numbers say it all!

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


Dangerous! (My inner Pole might come out if I drink to much Vodka)

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]

*squints at bottle*

See you in Random! :)


Erm...I mean between Russians and Germans of course....damn beer...

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


Okay...Torqi...but I got you two times today...first a poll that most of Poles don't care about anything Kosovo and second alot of Pole don't see much difference at best between Russians and Poles (even if one of them came as liberator).

I think I earned my lunch now...a beer for you too? ;)

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


Look what I found, survey about just that!

There are also, and quite often, stories about the "good Germans." Someone mentioned example: - Germans often distributed food residents of Przemysl. "Good German" is also in a family hstory of Paul Machcewicz, a historian and director of the emerging Museum of World War II. - During the review of my grandparents was German rifle. He shook his finger, but did not notify the commander - he says.

Sometimes the "good German" is against the "evil Russian" and "evil Ukrainian". - Grandmother said that Germans were the elegant gentlemen were who did not rape, did not smoke, did not rob, almost always were asking for something. When Russians entered, it was all said it was Sodom and Gomorrah, young girls hid in the cellar - says one of the respondents.

- Germans were a culture and not to take anything, and Ukrainians raped girls and had no abandonment.- Our preferred, as it were Germans who entered villages - says another.

Someone else compares: - Germans when saw the painting, they took it and the Russians destroyed it. - There are interesting stereotypes of Ukrainians and Russians - assesses Peter Kwiatkowski, a sociologist from the Pentor, co-author of the study.

...blame Google translation for the errors!

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


Well, so was Germany...forget about all the nasty stuff deep inside we always were chums....you know...;)

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


Not to forget Hungary! ;)
German brothers in arms in both world wars!

(Still very popular with Poles I gathered)

Even their current "arrows" are quite right extremists for european standards...so no reason to
single out Croatia for their collaborations and sympathies...I think..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

So...Poland is...Rome? ;)

I mean technological advance is one thing but a distinctive cultural heritage is another.
As the germanic tribes came into contact with Rome they already had such and were seen as very distinctive from Rome and every known Roman (Tacitus).

I was asking if the Ukrainians had such already as they came in contact with Poles...(I'm so clueless it's not nice I know)

What I really want to know where this "fraternal" should come from? Austria or Bavaria are probably also "fraternal" but they aren't hot on it to make a big story out of it, especially as politics put a border between them...

Or take France and Germany! Germania and Gaul first then the Reich of the Franks....the same founder in Charlemagne/Karl der Große....for a millennia sharing the same empire...but later arch enemies...now again allies, partners, even chums.

We share so much but nobody would call us "fraternal" I think...

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


So...Ukrainians are Poles? And vice versa???

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


Not so "brotherly" at all what I could gather...

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]


My grandfathers generation called them "Siberians" but everybody knew what was meant...

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

Yeah...that is something we to often forget talking about such history with our nationstate-mindset..

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


Well...there might even have been Germans on the polish side! ;)

History / Poland's General Anders and one of the biggest "What Ifs?" of WW2 [31]

Sokrates? Where comes your hailing of the Russians from?

Do you have an idea of the kill ratio in WWII? How many Russians had to die to for every German soldier? 3.5-4.5 to 1 !
Does that speak of superior tactics? Of superior equipment? Of superior "anything"?
They had more men than anything else...whenever the numbers were equal the Germans won.

(Even in the West the kill ratio was mostly in favour of the Germans - 1.5 to 1).

The historian John Keegan put the average loss inflicted by the Germans during the whole war at 50% more than the allies. Even totally outnumbered and mostly without air or any other material superiority during the latter years.

Tell's you all about "who was better", really...

And after the war many inventions and tactics (even camouflage) of the german forces became standards in the military academies throughout the world - not the russian human wave!

(The Amis still wear our helmets today...whereas we get only the funny berets! *grrrr*)

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


That's sick and petty! :(

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

*imagines turban instead of beloved helmet*

*faints*

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

Sources?

(That's the only thing to shut me up...ask the others) ;)

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


And that has to do with the Serbs exactly what?
Did the occupying powers scratch out the Poles from the Battle? Now that would understandable (if stupid) but I doubt that.
The facts of this historical event was never up for scratching or denying...

Even your Sienkiewicz made a living out of writing books denigrating the Germans and the Teutonic Knights...and he lived in partition Poland. Doesn't look like overt opression to me!

You for sure want to be the Serbs to be there....for that you point to a romanticizing fiction author and even blame Prussia, the Kaiser and even Hitler.

But this is no evidence. Other polish myth and history has survived very well, and as I said...it's about Serbs.

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

Yeah...they took special care to burn every evidence of the Serbs partaking in the Battle of Grunwald 1410....must have been something jewish!

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]

Oh please....the partition is long gone, and again, why are the historians able to point all the others participiants?

Another western/germanic conspiracy against the poor Serbs?
They just missed that one...period!


Oh and Kaiser and Hitler are long gone too...


Johannes Longinus! Ah ja :)

History / Battle of Grunwald 1410 The biggest medieval battle. Germans smashed. [174]


How dare you!!!!
They beat the Teutonic Order!!!!!!
Poles beat the Germans!!
(Only a won football game could be sweeter)

But I can understand it....I feel the same way about the Battle in the Teutoburg Forest 9 AD.
And THAT one had far reaching consequences!