Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [267]

Unfortunately there are stupid people in every country who look for an excuse to be violent. Sometimes they can be your fellow countrymen and you 'looked at them the wrong way' or 'dissed them' or you can be a foreigner in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I've lived in poland for over ten years and have never personally witnessed any unprovoked form of racism.
Niether have I ever encountered the staring syndrome (but I'm english and white so I don't really look very different).
Then again I live in a smallish town (about 50 000 residents). Probably it's worse in the bigger cities. Possibly because they have to put up with tourists getting very drunk and behaving very badly and assuming an absurd sense of superiority.

A year ago I was in Kraków and I was terribly ashamed to hear almost nothing but drunken brits making an exhibition of themselves in the market square.

Of course ten years ago it was a little different, there were less foreigners here and most people automatically wanted to 'be your friend' if only to practice there english. Nowadays we are not so much of a novelty.

As an aside, I find it difficult to believe polish people don't like foreigners when one of the most popular main stream TV programs is Europa da się lubić. Polish people in general, seem to be very interested in how foreigners experience life over here.

Language / Can you recognise the nationality of foreign Polish speakers by their accent? [43]


I agree, I doubt any foreigner would not eventually be recognised as such. I was just wondering if the nationality could be detected by a common mispronunciation of words by everyone from a particular geographical region. As an example the pronunciation of the english 'i' sounds closer to the english 'e' from most eastern europeans when they are speaking english.

Then again, my polish must be getting fairly close because my wife always tells me to explain to people that i'm English when i'm talking by telephone. Just in case they think i'm a Pole who is either:-

a) very drunk
b) mentally retarded
c) under the influence of halucinogenic drugs

Love / Insultive opinions about Polish girls... [139]

Generalising about any race is a very stupid and dangerous thing to do. Obviously there are cultural, environmental and economical differences between nationalities. That's what makes travel interesting.

Unfortunately the loudest, brashest types of people are often the first encountered in every country and always this is only a sub-set of the general population.

For instance in Poland a relatively small amount of people frequent bars, clubs etc. Many of the male visitors to this country may well end up meeting and dating Polish girls who frequent these places. (This is in no way a sugestion that there is anything wrong with the girls who do). But many of these girls are on the extreme side of Polish culture. Basing an opinion on a small sub-set and their friends isn't a valid opinion on Polish women. The vast majority of which you will probably never meet.

For instance, I had friends working over here in the late 90's who dated Polish girls (a few of them ended up marrying them). Some of these girls came from (i don't want to sound too derogatory) the wilder sort of families. So my friends made a lot of assumptions based off their experiences. Most of these assumptions were that all Polish men were complete a**holes, that all the families were money grabbing etc. And of course they were experts on the matter because they'd lived here for a few months.

There are some lovely women here, some average women here and some awful women here the same goes for just about every other country. There is one big difference though, in your own country you recognise subtle differences in peoples use of your own language, mannerisms etc. This gives you some important information in whether or not the person you've just met might be suitable for you or not. You're not judging simply off physical attractiveness, which when you're in a strange country may be the case. Any attractive girl who can speak your language (no matter how badly) is going to be interesting.

Feel free to shout about it later, when it turns out that she's the biggest gold digging, boyfriend battering b*tch from hell.

Don't feel free to tell me that this is how all, or the majority of Polish wome are.

Love / Insultive opinions about Polish girls... [139]


Neither do I. Which is why I said I didn't want to sound derogatory. I find wild people interesting and the most likeable. I spent most of my life in the UK hanging around with people on the wilder side. Conversely I've spent most of my life in Poland with people on the more conservative side. Which is why I say you can't generalise.

I wasn't exactly a battered husband in the UK but I've been on the recieving end of a few freshly brewed mugs of tea thrown in my direction and on a couple of ocasions a cut glass ashtray. But I wouldn't begin to claim all English girls are violent.


Correct I haven't been on this forum long enough to read all the posts. But I'm getting the idea that there is a concensus on this forum that racially Polish women are apart from other nationalities (in a negative way). I have however spent 30% of my adult life here and have met a large mixture of people, some nice some not so nice. I know it's boring and a bit PC but I don't believe you should insult Polish women by generalising.

I agree there are some common customs amongst them like insisting on cleaning the house and I mean really cleaning, before any visiting guests arrive (perhaps they adopted Hyacinth Bucket as a role model). But I haven't noticed common traits of bad manners, violence etc.

Life / Russian Language - is it offensive if I speak it to Polish people? [69]

My wife comes from a fairly small village. When I'm there some of the older neighbours try to speak to me in Russian (even though I can communicate quite well in Polish). They know I'm a foreigner and perhaps they're just testing too see if I understand Russian better than Polish. I agree with the earlier posts, I think that most of the older generation would be quite happy to try to communicate with you in Russian ( and as you're not Russian I don't think there would be any resentment).

With the younger generation English would probably be the best option.


Perhaps English native speaking to a Frenchman. When we were in France I was amazed how many of them understood and replied in English to my Polish freinds. I'm going to practise a fake accent before my next visit.

Work / Why is Polish workmanship so bad? [52]

Unfortunately it's true. The standards of workmanship here are generaly terrible. There are guys who can do a really good job but they are far and few between and really difficult to find. But from what I can remember there were plenty of 'cowboys' in the UK as well.

I did all the work on my flat myself (internal walls, installation, plastering, tiling etc.) the only job I didn't do was the final mounting of the radiators (as the supply and fitting of the heating was included in the price of the flat). The pipes were laid for them to the correct position, all they had to do was fit the valves and mount the radiators on the walls. The stupid twats fitted compression fittings to plastic pipes and every radiator leaks where the valve is fitted.

That plumbing work was carried out by one of the largest specialist companies in this town, I hate to think what a cowboy plumber would have done.

Life / Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here: [185]

Actualy your consumer rights in Poland are almost identical to those in the UK. regardless of any so called guarantee. If the goods are not fit for purpose within 2 years of purchase you have the right for repair or replacement. If repair or replacement can't rectify the problem (eg. It's so crap it's never going to be able to do what they said it would) then the contract can be terminated (you get your money back in other words).

Plus the two year period starts again from the replacement / repair of the goods.

How far you would have to go to enforce it I don't know. But I think if you threatened legal action (seeing as that if the supplier lost he would also have to pay the costs) should usually get the result.

This law has been about since 2003.

Hence all the super warranty offers ( our product comes with a two year warranty ). That's because in law it already does (unless it's clearly stated that the lifetime of the product is limited when you are buying the goods).

You don't have to have the silly warranty documented stamped and signed. You do need to keep the original proof of purchase (this is your contract).

Life / Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here: [185]


According to the Act of law. If the defect occurs within 6 months of purchase it is the sellers responsibility as it is assumed that the defect was there at the moment of purchase.

So within 6 months you can go back to where you bought it and ask them for a replacement or if you don't want to struggle to much accept waiting for a repair ( but legaly you have the option as to whether it's a repair or replacement ). Even in the case of a repair it has to be within a reasonable time period (what this means in reality I have no idea).

Interestingly enough the law also states that the supplier is also responsible for any costs involved in replacing the goods in service. But I think this would be more applicable to say the costs of a great Polish plumber removing and then replacing a defective boiler for example. Unfortunately it probably doesn't cover my time and travel expenses to return to the shop where I bought my crappy chinese DVD player. (But you never know perhaps I should try a test case). ;)

UK, Ireland / Posting from UK to Poland....not good! [53]


And that's the problem here. People don't complain they just moan about everything as if theres nothing they can do about it. Proper complaints are constructive and can achieve something. (Although in the case of poczta polska that may be a little over optomistic).

Life / Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here: [185]

Avalon, sorry to hear of your trouble.
I've heard many times that going through the Polish courts is a nightmare (very long winded and often absurd judgements that are contrary to the law).

I've also heard that a lot of people have later indeed gone on to the EC courts and that the Polish government have had to pay compensation for not providing judgements in a reasonable length of time and not adhering to the laws.

But it takes a determined person to go through all the hassle.
My only hope would be that smaller businesses would worry about thier costs if they were threatened with court action.
But in the case of very small businesses they can just disappear (bankruptcy etc.) In fact somewhere on the web theres a nice interpretation of the consumer laws and it warns to only buy from businesses that you believe will still be there for the period of the two years for which you're covered.

Absolutely the situation in the UK is much better. Suppliers there usually give refunds or replacements without any hassle.

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]


I find that most Poles prefer talking to me in Polish even though I'm far from fluent (I'll never master the case endings). Even though I know they speak English fairly well.

But I agree with other comments that English is also difficult. I think as a beginer English is easier but after a certain point it's also very difficult. My wife's english is almost perfect,for fun she filled in a cambridge proficiency test without prior study and scored over 80% (I was pretty impressed). But she still struggles with written English especially with the definite and indefinite articles. That's probably because it's a fairly alien concept to Polish people.

Love / Age difference, my Polish girl is 23 and I am 39 [42]

Maybe it's more common than we think. I was 39 and my wife was 23 when we first met. We've been together for 10 years now ( and I only earn a polish salary ).

When the Bans were posted at the British Embassy for our wedding I noticed a lot of the other Bans posted also had fairly big age differences.

Work / Salary expectations in Poland [373]


A true Expat already has a job here by definition (they're sent over here by foreign companies).

I came over here as an expat in the late '90s and was earning about 16K month nett. Plus free accomodation, transport costs etc. But that wasn't a 'true expat package'

The full deal was House in Magdalenka , school fees for your children , company car plus approx 30K USD month

Unfortunately I was one step too low on the ladder for that kind of deal, but it gives you an indication on what some of the expat deals are.

I stayed on over here after my contract finished and started working for a polish company
for a lot less money (plus last year I took a volountary 30% pay cut because of 'the crisis').

I'm an engineer, and good experienced engineers in Poland can find well paid work. Where I work a graduate mech. eng. with 2-3 years experience gets about 3K in the hand. Senior engineering managers with experience can earn approx 8 - 10K in Poland.

Experienced production managers can also earn BIG salaries.

On the down side skilled and semi- skilled workers earn a pittance 1200 - 1800 per month

Costs depend on whether you're single or you've got a family.
I live and work in a small town.

I pay about 2000 month for mortgage etc. 1500 for shopping, 500 for the car (very low annual mileage and not including depreciation) and another 600 for phone, TV and energy bills.

I don't feel that I live a particularly extravagent lifestyle, how people manage to live off the lower incomes I've no idea!

Language / iec conjugation [47]

In english we also have irregular verbs but these are and are listed as exceptions. So you can learn them as a list and remember them ;)

In polish there are something like 17 000 verbs in current use but unfortunately there are over 350 different conjugation patterns.
I think it would be impossible to remember rules for all of them (if there are any).

Probably the only method is to develop a feeling for what sounds correct and give it your best shot.

Sorry my mistake there are 334 patterns listed in Stanisław Mędak's book. (I checked as soon as I got home).

Language / I need some encouragement from Polish language speakers! [30]

I agree with Polonius and Strzyga. I've been learning for 10 years by that method and can communicate fairly well in Polish ( I make lots and lots of grammatical errors though).

On the other hand it's really horses for courses. I was on an intensive 3 week summer course for Polish (immediately before starting work for a company where no one spoke English). There were people there such as professional translators, language buffs etc. Who prior to the course had studied the grammar and after sitting the assesment test went immediately into classes for intermediate and advanced levels (waste of time in my opinion as they could hardly string a sentence together as they had no vocabulary).

At the other extreme I was in the beginners class (along with all the Americans who could speak so fluently that my wife thought they were native Polish speakers. They simply couldn't read or write in Polish).

If you've got good language skills study the grammar, the vocabulary will come later and you'll probably be word perfect.

If you're a mere mortal start with learning simple phrases and build from there. Try eventually putting yourself into situations where you have to use Polish. The grammar will never come easily but most Polish people will understand you if you can at least conjugate the basic verbs correctly.

Language / iec conjugation [47]

Close,

but wiedzieć conjugates to wiem / wiesz / wie / wiemy / wiecie / wiedzą

similar to mieć - mam / masz / ma / mamy / macie / mają

Language / Which is the BEST, EASIEST to learn & most helpful"POLISH FOR FOREIGNERS"course? [32]


Szwed is correct. Without the most basic conjugations of the verbs you don't stand a chance of being understood, with the exception of using stock phrases (in which case you may as well buy a cheap phrase book).

You can get away with errors in declination and even case endings if the context of the conversation gives enough clues but you certainly need to be able to conjugate unless you want to try just using the infinitive with a pronoun - Ja mieć = I have

Off-Topic / What's your connection with Poland? Penpals. [512]

Lived here for 11 years.
Polish driving licence.
Employed by Polish company.
Polish wife.
Polish Son.
Polish mother in law (living with us at the moment).
Waiting for Polish citizenship.
Can almost speak Polish.

Work / Polish qualifications, what are they worth ? [137]

I imagine Polish qualifications have the same value as qualifications from most countries.

At best a qualification is a mandatory requirement for certain types of work, so it's a must have. But this qualification alone will only get you a position at entry level and the competition for most jobs is enormous.

Almost all employers are searching for people with experience (and qualifications if they are a must have).

I have been involved in the recruitment process several times in my working life and can honestly say that the least interesting thing on someones CV is what university they attended and what qualification they gained. Prior work history was always the most interesting.

Even when interviewing 'fresh starters' without prior work experience, the most interesting thing for me was whether they displayed a genuine interest in the type of work and what experience they had gained through summer jobs etc.

From my experience in Poland I can see that nepotism is still rife (probably an overspill from communistic times). Although in small private companies it's their choice and it's rife in all countries, hence the name family business.

Work / Polish qualifications, what are they worth ? [137]

Yes, his qualification is worth the paper it's written on.

But, you should only take advice for this type of work from a 'chartered engineer' certainly not a graduate engineer.

Chartered engineer = graduate engineer plus peer reviewed experience.

Food / OKOCIM PORTER BETTER THAN GUINNESS STOUT? [43]

I love guiness!

It's one of the few things I miss from the UK. I know you can get it in Warszawa etc. but I live in a small town and it's not available here on draught.

Thank god the local Tesco's has started stocking the 'draught pour tins' It's a close approximation of the real thing (brewed in Dublin as well).

Comparing a porter to a stout makes no sense. I tried porter due to the lack of guiness but it's really sickly. Then again I'm a lifelong stout fan.

Beer over here is OK but it's just 'so gassy'. The first two or three pints of guiness slip down so smoothly (and quickly if you have the desire). If I tried to drink a litre of zywiec straight down I think I'd explode.

Work / Polish qualifications, what are they worth ? [137]


I don't want to be picky but 'closed shop' refers to the situation where you had to be a union member and remain a union member to be employed somewhere. This practise was made illegal in the UK in the 1990's. I don't know whether closed shops exist in Poland (maybe in the collieries) because the trade union movement doesn't appear to be so strong here.

Employing friends or family in preference to strangers is nepotism.

Mira is correct though, I also have direct experience and know it's very common here.

Law / HELP IN IMMIGRATION SOUGHT " PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN POLSKA" [20]

I live under the administration of the łódż office.

It clearly states on their own website that the conditions for obtaining the right for permanent settlement are. A minimum of 2 years residency and at least 3 years of marriage to a Polish citizen.

I obtained my stałego pobytu through marriage even though I have lived here long enough to obtain it for 'time served'.

At łódź you definitely need to be firm (not arrogant or rude just firm). They told me that I needed to provide 13 items when in fact only 4 items were necessary.

I gave them the 4 items along with the application and recieved my stałego pobytu in due course.

Sometimes they appear to not understand what they are doing. Ie asking for an original copy of my 'decysja' for my 5 year EU card. I had to explain that they didn't give a copy of the decysja. I had to go into the office where they showed it on the computer when they issued the card in the first place.

I was applying for 'dokument potwierdzający prawo stałego pobytu' whereas for someone who is not already an EU citizen, they will be applying for 'Zezwolenie na osiedlenie się'.

All that I needed to provide was

Passport
Mariage certificate
Wifes ID card
My last EU long stay card

Of course huge numbers of photocopies of the above and lots of passport style pics

What the actual law for zezwolenie na osiedlenie się is I can't say because I haven't checked it.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Reading some of the posts, this thread appears more to be whether expats should or need to learn Polish.

I know a few expats who've been here for years and can just about manage hello and goodbye in Polish. They seem to get bye OK (usually they have friends or a company translator to help).

On the other hand there are some people who are only here for a few months and pick up a fairly impressive vocab.

As for Poland being user friendly to expats, I've read on many threads how the UK accomodates Poles ie. sending a few policemen on training courses, having the most commonly used official handouts in Polish etc. Even some roadsigns in Polish.

Why can't the police and all the people working in government departments in Poland learn to speak English. I mean 1 - 2 million Poles have moved to the UK and the UK has at least made some effort. In Poland there must be at least 1 or 2 thousand expats. What's wrong with this country, why on earth aren't they wasting scant resources to accomodate us all in a better manner.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


The only problem being that the Polish consulate is not part of the American government (It's part of the Polish embassy) I'd be pretty amazed if they didn't have everything in Polish.

I think if you check the American embassy in warsaw or British embassy in warsaw's webpages you will also find they have all their information in Polish and English as well.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

If you're from the EU, then when you are dealing with the Polish offices for foreigners you don't have to know Polish. Under EU regulations Poland is obliged to explain and communicate in one of the official european languages that you understand.

This doesn't mean that documents do not require translating into Polish. It does mean that explanations of the procedures and any problems their may be with your application have to be communicated in a language you understand.

Another interesting fact is that an estimated 1% of the EU population speak Polish as a foreign language. Not that insignificant when 6% of the EU speak Spanish as a foreign language.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

ACT
of 14 July 2006

on the entry into, residence in and exit from the Republic of Poland of nationals of the European Union Member States and their family members ), )

(Journal of Laws No. 144, item 1043)

Article 6
Authorities competent for matters governed by the present act are obliged to instruct Union citizens and their family members in the language they understand, of the following:

(1) rules and procedures in such cases;
(2) their rights and duties;
(3) contents of decisions on the grounds of which they are refused the registration of residence or grounds for the annulment of such registration;
(4) contents of decisions resulting in the refusal to issue documents referred to in the Act or on the grounds of which such documents are annulled;

(5) contents of the decision on expulsion;
(6) procedure and deadline for appeals.

Applications and documents must be in Polish language though see Article 7

Apologies for going a bit 'off topic'

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Don't forget this act and all the application forms are available with explanations in English / French and German so they are already going someway towards meeting the requirements.

In £ódź if you ask for someone who can speak English by telephone or in person they will also acomodate you (I don't know about French and German).

Study / "MAGISTER" OR "MASTERS DEGREE" - ARE THEY THE SAME? [75]


Quite a lot of extra mural students do more than that amount of work. Consider those who are working in jobs already related to their studies. My wife was working for a western multi-national whilst studying for her magister part time. For her the studies were easy as she was living and breathing the subject everyday. She qualified with 5+ plus some kind of special medal.

The best engineers I've worked with are those who studied for the old HND qualifications whilst working or completed OU courses whilst working. I've also had to suffer the dross who pratted around at uni and new absolutely nothing of any value when they started work.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking pure academic research. Real acedemic studies are of great value but the majority of people studying are only there to get a certificate to get a job. At the risk of repeating myself any potential employer would be far more interested in somebody with relevant work experience and a degree than someone with a degree. If I was searching for someone to carry out acedemic research I would be looking for someone with the best possible degree from the best possible university (ie work experience).

Don't knock all part time students, agreed some of them are wasters but many full time students are wasters also. I've had the mispleasure of having worked alongside them far too often.