A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich

I'm aware of what ground energy is Shawn and what it represents, its kind of like referring to solar energy as light power. It is essentially geo thermal energy and it does have huge potential.

But lets be real here, its highly unlikely somebody will be able to tap into ground heat resources hot or cold enough to be able to meet the needs of an average household. We're talking at a domestic level here, how deep do you have to go to get water hot enough for a shower/bath or radiators. The depth will be all important when it comes to pricing these renewables.

Geo Thermal essentially means tapping into the earths heat resources as a form of energy.

I repeat, heats pumps and ground energy my ass....

I looked into this some years ago WB. The cost for heat pumps and ground pipes for a building is prohibitive. Its ok for govenment buildings (they can boast and say they are energy efficient) as they are using the taxpayers money and cost is immaterial.

They are drilling locally, a geothermal borehole (125mm) to a depth of 3000 mtrs approx. The mayor got a grant of some 18 million złoty towards it and the rumour is that there is going to be a spa and possibly, they will be able to heat the houses in the vicinity. Nice if it happens.

According to that, ground energy still has some kinks but it could have potential. If it were feasible, I would use it if it meant being free of using electricity or natural gas to heat water and my house.

ok thought this thread was about the rich and poor peeps..

again I will try to keep on topic for you WB :)

I was asked a few times what my job was by several cousins, I just chalked it up as small talk, people do ask what you do

for a living, even people I run into here, so its prob just conversation. I cant see someone wanting to know what your wages are

to make you feel small , does anyone see polish people openly discussing how rich they are and that they despise poor?

I would think that is something you keep private as to what your financial status is so you dont get mugged , flashy people
I could see this happening too, if they are jerks they deserve it.

But , I think its the same there as it is here, there are reasons why people have what they have and those that dont, my thoughts are

that some people dont want to futher their lives and just accept and only exist.. most of these folks are drug users, alcoholics
etc , you have some that will be rich and fall into the poor catagory because their social lives have caught up with them and
they had a handle on it, but somewhere down the road hit disaster. something traumatic might have happened or they just live
like they are 17 all their lives and dont want to grow up and accept responsibility.. I have seen all of this.

I guess it all depends on the person, but we cant be making something bigger then it is when really it is not like that most of the time

you have much larger groups of rich folks who do help poor with monetary gifts and donations to causes for humanity.

omg my brain is working today lol..

Most people that are poor live poor, and the opposite applies to rich people i.e. they drive expensive cars and live in nice areas in big houses. Not too many rich people confine themselves to living with the poor. So its pretty obvious really.

Generally speaking rich people have rich offspring, as in the wealth is kept within the family and passed down from generation to generation. I dont know many poor people that had rich parents, i know lots of rich people that had rich parents.

Think of a rich famous person and try to give examples of their children being poor.....


i strongly disagree, it depends on the person who was teaching the person and the examples they set.

eh, is that really a fair statement?
Don't get me wrong, I know we have a different opinion on many things, I enjoyed reading your last post but the statement above seems,...i dunno like a convenient assumption:/


Where on earth did you come up with that? What do you define to be "rich?"
I ask because it's a term that means different things in different parts of the world and if we're talking about money rich then that amount is also a different thing in different places.

I realize many people do make donations here and there and something is better than nothing but you really got to weigh what "rich" people take from society vs what they give. How this could be measured would be under very intricate and objective criteria with access to very sensitive/confidential information.

I actually really liked reading your last post though, you seem to have....become more thoughtful...yeah I'm still a jerk.


Good point but I do recall reading about one fellow who went to school with Prince Charles as a boy, he in fact went to a pricier school later on when they went separate ways. He'd been homeless and selling the Big Issue for a while, when I read the story. I agree with you overall but you asked for an example:/

Communism will certainly come, sooner or later however we can't reduce life to mathematics. Otherwise rubbish like Ayn Rand's 'objectivism' would start to make sense - and it doesn't.

Closing the wealth gap is both desirable and inevitable.

so basically in Poland only, you are saying the rich never contribute to the poor, they watch tnem suffer .

I dont believe that.

I know there is corruption, where isnt there corruption?

but what I feel like your saying is those people who have actually earned their right to be rich, worked their arse off to get

there are supposed to just hand out money to the poor because its the right thing to do?

listen robin hood.. lol put your sword away for a moment, and realize that some of these poor are that way because 1 Either they
didnt want to change their lives ( and drink/take drugs) which is true in any nationality, people make their own choices, yes
there are some who were born into poverty and there are plenty of people who were born into poverty who became very
well known and rich only from their experiences and it didnt change them or how they wanted to help others..

so lets see if we can find examples.. I pick Henryk Gorecki for one. not born in a rich family, but he did manage to work hard

he experienced the war and wrote about it and he became rich by way of his heartfelt music.


as you wish, but I strongly disagree with you, but thank you for giving up a good debate for me today.

off to work soon :)

I agree. Sadly, I don't think I will live long enough to witness the part II.

No im not actually saying that although thats not too far away from the truth.


feel away, there arent too many rags to riches stories these days. I get the feeling that you and your husband are proper working class, working away to pay off the mortgage and send the kids to college etc..Work your entire lives to be settled once you get to an old age... One of the reasons i wrote this thread is to try and change the way the world works, or at least alter human conception of what people, or more importantly the governments idea of what people should do in order to live happy lives.

Pat i respect you and I like you but you are the classic example of a brainwashed society from what i know and have deduced. Your very words confirm this for me. What im saying is we shouldnt have to live like this anymore. We the people are totally immersed into a monetary society that truly only benefits a few at the very top. We are all mostly brainwashed into a society of goto work, earn money, pay taxes, increase the country you live in's financial capacity to be globally dominant. I am essentially talking about a monetary system which is absolutely crippling to many but yet we all still persist on making money as if it is the only thing that really matters.

Let me say this:
Humans have been inhabiting this planet for an absolute fraction in terms of this planets existence, but yet we persist in getting a bigger house, better car, the promotion at work as though this is everything. We have been totally brainwashed by the system.

I dont know about any other people on this forum but i can say with 100% accuracy that the times ive been most happy do not in any way have a monetary connection. But why is the monetary factor still there???? Its there because it has been brainwashed into us, this is the society we live in. Money has become so absolutely engrossed into every single faction of our lives its hard to imagine anything else.

I for one am totally sick of it, i want to live my life - be happy, concentrate on the things that are important without the restraints of financial credibility, having to work in a job that i hate to benefit only the dictators who run the company. It shouldnt be like this, not any more.

All the new presidents, prime ministers and chancellors promise change, its usually a fundamental part of their campaign process. Theyre just perpetuating the system, there will be no real change, not until the monetary system and everything associated has been abolished.

It just doesn't work.....any more.

What rich people don't seem to understand is there are plenty of poor people who work harder than them yet where is the compensation? Why is the assumption rich people are the only ones who work yet poor people never do and are just seeking handouts while giving nothing in return. There is such a thing as working poor. Life is like a lottery. Many people will work hard and the lucky ones will become rich but not everyone will. So is it fair for those who do have the luck to hog all the profits?

I should have said knowledge is never wasted. When one goes to school people acquire knowledge which they carry with themselves the rest of their lives. They always use it. I majored in Speech as I was thinking of going on to law school and becoming a trial lawyer. But I ended up working in a math based science (land surveying). But in the Speech and English classes I learned how to write, read and interpreted all kinds of literature. I learned how to make a presentation in front of a group. So it isn't wasted. As for engineering, I have worked for plenty of engineers as they use my maps for their designs. Their education isn't any better than mine, just different. Actually I think an engineering education is a bit too narrow. Mine was much more broader.


I spent 12 years in Roman Catholic parochial schools. The RCC isn't Biblical based. They made it up as they went along. A good book to read is "how the irish saved civilization" he explains in there the difference between Christian traditions in ancient Ireland and what evolved out of Rome.

The problem with America these days is the old men in Washington have raised an outdated social philosophy from the late 1940's "Ann Rand's Objectivenism" (sp?). It basically is a "might makes right" philosophy and people are wealthy because they are morally superior. If you are poor it means that you are somehow lacking in something. It parallels pagan beliefs in pre Christian Europe where if you were poor or encountered misfortune god was punishing you. If you were wealthy god smiled on you and you were morally superior. Aristotle said it best in "Politics" When he said 2500 years ago, "Rich people are oftentimes religious because they credit to God what they got by luck". Sound familiar?

Communism would have succeeded if money was the root of all evil as you infer. It failed. You are a victim of the game that the Norman elite play in England. They brainwash the anglo saxon celtic underclass that money is evil as they don't want any competition from the likes of you lot.

Meathead,I agree with you on both counts.

Can someone define me what is rich people?How much money or assets one should have to be considered rich?Poor I can get it are people who have hard time keeping up to there daily bills.Please...... anyone?

Communism failed because it still benefited a only few at the very top, communism required strict state policing, prisons and dictators. Communism has money, banks and was managed by virtually self appointed leaders. There were many reasons as to why it failed, not just what you listed.

In any case the ramifications of a monetray system are far to complexed to summarize in only few words like you did.

Communism was just an excuse to place dictators no one can ever get rid of.

You never miss the opportunity to prove how utterly clue less you are, do you? Ground energy uses a heat pump to extract heat from the ground or water (eg.a lake). Its not from geothermal sources. As such it can require you only dig a few meters down. It becomes more viable if you have a well, already dug (hello Poland), which can be utilized. It can be used for heating and cooling - a very common scenario in the southern states of the US.

Geothermal can require you to go down much further, 300 to 3000 meter. Poland has a lot of geothermal potential because usable sources of heat are quite near the surface. For example a town near me (Slomniki) has a 314meter bore hole which gives 300kw for a 60kw use of electricity which is used fro schools, government buildings and homes. The water comes up at 17C and a heat exchanger extracts the energy. Poland has 280MW of geothermal energy production at the moment.

Well said Mr Gdynia is a Godforsaken country village and communist blocks last over 200 years.

I does not depend on how much money you have. I depends on the state of the mind and on the level of demoralization of the person who assigns you to a particular social stratum. Let me illustrate this with an example from my discussion on another forum. It was about schools. I send my daughter to a private school, being barely able to afford the tuition. Every day I take her to school in my 13 years old Subaru, because there are no free school buses for us, the filthy rich. There are no free lunches. Yet for someone who milks the system (funded also by my taxes) by sending his kid to a public school, I am indeed filthy rich, and I should be penalized.

This is not about how much money you earn/have. You are "rich" (and you are treated accordingly) when you disagree with the redistributive policies and attempt to separate yourself from this system.

You sound around about working to middle class, certainly not rich IMO.


Thats a dificult quesiton to answer, so many people act rich but are up to their necks in debt.

I have two friend's who i would consinder rich. One has a flat in London worth £1.3m has tow cars one of which is a 2006'ish Porsche Cayenne, he earns about £300k a year. The other lives in a house worth about £1.8m has had pretty much everycar you can imagine, Bentleys, Ferraris, Porches the lot, he buys property when ever he sees an angle for profit. I reckon hes worth around £50m.

Wealthy people could be considered the kind that have nice houses in respectable areas, have a car maybe worth more that £10k, take one or more holidays a year and probably have about 30% disposbale income left over after paying all their bills. These people are not rich at all IMO, they are also usually the backbone of the economy.

looking at it, no, because I cant really fairly state from polands perspective, but I can from my own area,

can you honestly say you have never seen a act of stupidity? you have no friends/family that might take their last
few dollars and use it for booze or a fix? ( maybe I am just in a mind set that traumatized me) <~past relationship.


yes you are right, I was referring to American culture I guess. I cant imagine polish folks to be so cruel though.


break out the magnifying glass professor Holmes And thank you for enjoying my post again ( I am still a smartarse) LOL


I am no more brainwashed then you.

But you mention dominant.. and its a key factor in what you said, which i think now i am understanding more of what you mean

and every living thing involves dominance for the sole purpose of survival which is a cycle we all must follow.

of course i thought of this a couple weeks ago, I was pondering while wondering <~ lol anyways, I kept thinking how really
we are not really free. Freedom has changed.. and we allowed it to change.. we go to work in our suits and skirts and
we come home to the same prison. And to boot we are all on a time schedule.

I was watching the ants that I found under a rock outside of my house. as I am watching them i notice the different workers for each

job, one was carrying a tiny egg, others were making the nest, in and out these holes and scrambling to do the queens bidding.
and I am the ultimate queen, because I am larger then these ants, I could ruin the nest with one spray of my ant killer and upset their

whole way of life.and kill their queen. so that I may be the queen a rule this piece of dirt outside of my home. but why would i kill all

these ants when they provide pest control and could keep my garden going good because they dig around the roots to give them air.

They have a purpose as we all do, we find our purpose in life and we follow it.

And if we choose to hop off that path , even though there are road blocks or some lady trying to spray us with bug spray

we keep on going, because that is how the cycle works.. disruption causes major problems as we are seeing with the economy
someone had a huge disruption in the cycle and it screwed us all up.

Anyway. think i answered this.. off to sleep :)