Welcome to Lemmingrad!

Indeed. They have a cause to support which is stable and strong, yet that cause has no chance of ever taking power.

Win-win situation for everyone - we know exactly who the loonies are, but they can't win power.

NEVER is an absolute no-no in political parlance. One can say within the foreseeable future, OK, but never 'NEVER'!

"broom of honesty"

Do you find people laughing when you talk?

Question: If Tusk and Kopacz were on a boat in the middle of the sea and it sunk, who would be saved?
Answer: 38 million Poles!

Talk for yourself, but the majority of Poles voted for this government.

You can claim to talk for around 3 million Poles. That's a long way from 38 million.

How would he know? That would involve listening to somebody else.


And the majority of Poles will always vote to make sure that the kind of idiots who clogged up Warsaw last weekend never get anywhere near government.

A good joke! As to the title of the thread - very witty as it bears this obvious resemblance to the Soviet name of the City on the Neve.

I think the name "leming" is a sort of revenge for the name "moherowy beret" once given by Jan Maria Rokita, one of the three co-founders of the Civic Platform (now, together with another co-founder Andrzej Olechowski, outside the party) to the typical voter of PiS.

But for me personally, the name "lemming" will always be associated with Margaret Thatcher, the milk snatcher, and the brave policies she once persued as Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Here is why:

(Margaret Thatcher) - People keep saying to me that my policies are wrong, that they are derisive, and that they will wreck British industry ... I know ... But they are ever so brave! We in the Conservative Party may be wrong, but we are wrong with so much more courage than any other party! Let us take our lead from Nature ... I've always admired this brave little beast, the lemming. Yes, they jumb over cliffs and eventually get drowned by water, but at least they are not for ever complaining!!!

If anything, it very well suits PiS supporters: they know what they think is the right direction and they will continue to go in that direction no matter what and they will not listen to any views other than ones from fellow PiSites about what to do. Which is why they will never again be involved in government.

At least we can hope. Remember that the same nation chose PiS.In this case I have to agree with polonius-you can never know what ppl will do. Especially when they're frustreted.

hey polonious, do you have any links to well researched 'conspiracy sites about these murders/accidents? I am interested in investigative journalism and proffesional hypothesies, for instance the leper thing was about massive real estate fraud.

While i do not subscribe to an overarching russian conspiracy, i do think different factions of organised crime and inteligence services are involved with issues that do date back the shock therapy/privatisations of the early nineties. We all now how na ostro polish politics and big business play. In fact the last outgoing brittish ambasador said that the worst thing in poland is that the rich are above the law in his farewell speech.

a) No they did not: PiS got 3,185,714 votes in the 2005 election, barely more than a quarter of the vote.
b) The turnout was only 40%.
c) That was before the electorate knew what PiS would be like. Now they do.
d) Since 2005 the turnout has been far higher: people are now going to vote so that there isn't again a PiS government.


PiS would need to get at least 45% of the vote to form a government (as they cannot form a coalition). They won't get more than 30%, probably less as they'll lose voters to SP.

If anything, they've gone so far that they won't even consider alternative views other than the currently accepted orthodoxy. Even the loss of Ziobro did nothing to dampen their faith in the Dear Leader!

But again - the circumstances of 2005 cannot repeat themselves - not even the most dodgy right or left wing leader would consider coalition with the mentally unstable Kaczynski these days, particularly after how he dealt with Lepper.


PiS before the 2005 election were much much more moderate than now. If you go back and read the news articles from then, you can see that they were expected to go into coalition with PO, such was their moderation. Unthinkable these days.


It would be a remarkable achievement, especially considering that the polls are against them.

It's more likely that PO will win a majority outright than PiS winning, to be honest.

I remember here in Warsaw during the last parliamentary elections all commercial radio stations were into late of the evening were telling: "go voting, go" and repeating this until the very last moment. I remember me listening to RadioZet late into the night, one moment I was thinking the studio people were going to drive the voters to the election stations themselves :)

I think they saved the country in the end. The commercial media acted decisively. They could not be bullied by ziobro laptop. They mobilized and attacked. This kind of action gives a warm feeling - that the 70% knew what to do.

I would very much expect to see changes being made to the electoral system to make it easier for people to register to vote where they actually live rather than where they are registered as living. A lot of the people I know in Warsaw were complaining that they would have to go to where-ever their parents are from in order to vote. That clearly isn't good for democracy (and is good for PiS), so it'll hopefully change.

Personally, I'd hope for the ability to vote wherever you like - all it would take would be the use of a computer to register the PESEL number of the voter and the number of their identity document. You have to show ID when voting anyway, so it wouldn't be a hardship to maintain a list of who exactly has voted so far that day.

PiS would, of course, oppose it on the grounds of it being too democratic for their liking.


Sanity prevailed for another 4 years and Poland was safe.

As with the president, perhaps the ruling party should also be limtied to two consecutive terms in office. That way, Poland wouldn't be saddled with w third-term Tusk clique. It would also save money and frazzled citizens' nerves to have all elections -- presidential, parliamentary and local -- held simutaneously -- ever 4 or 5 years.

Generally, not a bad idea, but instead of putting a term limit on the ruling party, why not to follow ancient Greek democracy and restrict individual members of parliament from serving for more than two consecutive terms, or even better - for the life time. Twins serving simultaneously are counted as one serving two terms. [My rules, do not complain]

This way your dream of getting rid of the eye-shifting Tusk would be satisfied. So would be my dream of getting Kaczyński off the political scene forever. Would not it be dandy to open the political arena for the young blood and fair fight?

So the party just changes its name and then there's no limit.


It's certainly the only way they are getting voted out in the medium term, given the utter farce that passes for opposition.

I know there's very little possibility but...I still have nightmares after the first time :)


You can vote wherever you want.Take a certificate from the place where you're registered and you can do what you want.

Yes, but you have to go there to get it....

Yes,but not necessarily at the day of elections.I agree it's not great solution but at least we have this.Thanks to this I was able to vote the last time.

Same with my girlfriend. But the system is far more complex than it needs to be and there is nowhere near enough publicity about it when there needs to be (i.e. before the deadline for applying).

And then the 70% would still mock the smolenkists. Or do you mean that after two terms only the 30% will be allowed to vote?

Clutching at straws now, Polonius?

The 70% would still refuse to vote for Kaczynski and PiS, no matter what artificial limits you placed upon them.


That would be ideal for them. Of course, the rules would change after the election of the 30% to remove the limits for them and them only.

To ensure democratic rotation, the party that had won two consecutive ballots would nnt be allowed to field candidates for the third time. That would ensure a different politicla contesllation -- therefore porgresss, rotation and dynamismas oppsoed to beign in a rut.

a) The whole point about democracy is that people choose the govt they want, not the one other people think they should have.
b) Parties would just change their names and addresses and stand again.

I've heard crazy ideas, but yours is definitely the most insane one yet.

Is there no end to the crazy suggestions that the desperate opposition will come up with?

Its not just crazy, it shows a fundamental hatred of democracy. Democracy hating Commie - good job he doesn't live in the US, you are barred from entry for that.

Now that makes sense! Reckon I'm just too idealistic to have envisaged such a ruse. But knowing what power-hungry polticians are like, that would be the way they'd go if such a ban were in force. They would change the name and possibly the leader (if the law required it), but it would still be the same old mafia.