How Polish history is viewed by other countries textbooks

Recently in a German book I read that one of the main reasons the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto failed is because the Polish side left the Jews stranded.

In another book that gives a really general sketch of German history, I read that the Vertriebene (the people who had to live formerly Prussian areas) were subjected to brutal vendetta acts from the side of Polish people.

How is that for splitting the guilt?

You are right. France adopted ius soliat the end of the nineteenth century. My mistake.

Presumably under the 1804 law, they would have been citizens of Prussia/Austria-Hungary or Russia - and would have lost Polish citizenship beyond any doubt after the country was wiped off the map?

Anyway - citizenship per se is only a legal term. You are what you feel you are and Szopen
certainly felt Polish, his music was Polish to the core and, in the end, that's what counts.

Er, he didn't call himself that:

Nitpicking. Obviously he used the spelling of his father's surname. I used the Polish
spelling out of my own sentiment to our great composer.

Here in America Poland didn't exist at all in our history classes. I went to a high ranked public high school and was an honors student having taken the required US History, World History, and AP European History (Briefly covered Poland). It was only when I did my own reading (having had to buy the books online) that I learned about Poland. Finally now in college I am taking my first history course that solely concentrated on the history of Poland and nothing else.


You sure that's not just half of "our" great composer? ;-)

If he felt himself to be Polish, why didn't he use the Polish spelling of his names?

nice try.

Out of the immense respect he had for his father, whom he loved dearly and respected
as a good Polish son would love and respect his French father, and didn't want to hurt
his father's French feelings. Such is the Polish sons' love for their fathers.

So there.

And his French mother. Don't forget that his mother was also at least half French.

Only in legal terms on paper. In reality, Tekla Justyna z Krzyżanowskich (the daughter
of Jakub Krzyżanowski and Antonina z Kołomińskich) was 100% Polish.

From what I can tell, that spelling is a Polish fabrication.

Even most Polish sources are using Chopin, so to try and change his name when he never identified himself with it is historical revisionism at best. It's fine when transliterating between alphabets, but when he clearly identified himself as "Chopin" - it's just nonsense to use some alternate spelling.

(we see the same nonsense with Lithuanians changing Mickiewicz's name)

For what it's worth, calling him French-Polish would seem to be the most accurate term, being as he was, the child of a Frenchman and a Pole.

Full Polish Spirit!

No kidding? I always thought it was Chinese fabrication *rolls eyes*



Really? So when I write Kartezjusz (Descartes) in Polish, it's "historical revisionism"
and nonsense too? :-)

Then I guess I shouldn't write Jan Chrzciciel (John the Baptist) either, because he certainly
wasn't Polish :-) No, wait a minute... we shouldn't use the English spelling "John the Baptist"
either as he certainly wasn't English. What was his real name? Oh, yeah - יוחנן המטביל
...or was it ܝܘܚܢܢ?

:-)

Which explains why she was certainly a French citizen at the time of Frederic's birth and may or may not have been a Polish citizen.


The child of a Frenchman and a Frenchwoman who may or may not have also been Polish.

Yep. Same nonsense is in English with the blatant Anglicising of names - it's wrong and shouldn't be done. There's just no need to - about the only exception I can think of is with the names of Popes.


That's transliteration though, so it's fair enough to have different names because there's not one standard for transliteration.

You are talking about citizenship - only a legal term in case of Tekla Justyna z Krzyżanowskich,
nothing else.

Anyways - I have no time for your nitpicking, so let's do some quick maths:

1) his mother was 100% Polish by birth, genes and culture (and only acquired French citizenship by marriage)
2) his father, although he was French, lived in Poland, loved the country dearly and can only
be counted as roughly 80% French and 20% Polish (because of all the connection with Poland)
3) Chopin felt 100% Polish, played 100% Polish music and wanted his heart to be burried
in Poland, which earns him an additional 10% Polishness bonus

So, all in all - I can agree that Chopin was more or less 95% Polish and 5% French.

I'd like to remind all the legal-terms loving muppets in this thread (no names) that we are
human beings and what we are is decided by our hearts, souls and a little bit by blood,
not by some puny piece of legal paper and artificial rules and regulations :-)

Oh crap,does that mean Ive got to remember Josef Conrads "real" name,and the last bit of Marie Currie's name too? :)

In Poland we spell Sheakespear as Szekspir. So what? Is that bother you? Look that the Rok Chopinowski" has French spelling.
Other examples: Antoni Dworzak, Michał Anioł

Harry.
Why are you still argueing? It's obvious that you are trying desperatly to persude us that white is in fact black. What's wrong with you??? He was at least half Polish. Full stop.

His friend Liszt was calling him a Polish composer not French.

Mickiewicz used to write foreign names in Polish spelling: Childe Harold figures in his poetry as Czajld Harold, Cicerone as Cziczerone. Similarily Donna Giovanna became Donna Dziowanna and so on.

With regard to foreign names, the Polish language follows the rules of the language from which they are derived, and would thus appear to be more tolerant than the English.

Really? Got any proof of any of that? Judging from the coat of arms which her family used, they were originally from Silesia. And if she was so Polish, why did she take a foreign husband? No true Pole would voluntarily become a member of another nation!


Interesting that you think that choosing to live in a country has impact on nationality. Perhaps you could remind me where Chopin chose to spend the vast majority of his adult life and which one he only spent two years of his adult life in?


Indeed, he felt so Polish that instead of living as a Pole in Poland, he lived in France as a Frenchman!


Born a French citizen to French parents, chose to live his adult life in France and chose to live there as a Frenchman. Yep, clearly 95% Polish.

That's Ferenc/Franz/Francois Liszt at various points, BTW, depending on where the sheet music was published.

If you can play some Chopin on the piano, is it easier for you to play, knowing that he was French or Polish? A stupid question? I need a wise answer!

He was not Polish and he was not French: he was French-Polish.

Frolish?

:)

Frenlish

quote=Harry

Oh, for crying out loud - you never give up do you?

Anyway, as Gombrowicz once wrote - "Qu'y a-t-il de commun entre Chopin et Mme Kowalska? Si Chopin a composé ses ballades, cela augmente-t-il d'un seul gramme les poids spécifique de M. Powalski?"

Very well - Chopin was 100% French, if that makes you happy, Harry. I don't give that much of a f*ck, really.

Bored in to submission, I gotta try that but I just don't have the patience.

So next, Copernicuski :)