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POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER


Novichok 1 | 2,761
12 Apr 2021 #61
Why should I even consider doing that?

I am giving you a chance to explain the basis for this from you:

unless Russia becomes a truly free democracy

So my question is simple: What does Russia need to do to become "a truly free democracy" like Country X of your choice.
If you don't know, just say so.

What I know is irrelevant at this point since it is YOU who made the quoted statement above.
Miloslaw 9 | 3,032
12 Apr 2021 #62
So my question is simple: What does Russia need to do to become "a truly free democracy"

Hold truly free elections.
The result may not be perfect, but anything is better than the Putin dictatorship.
Novichok 1 | 2,761
12 Apr 2021 #63
Hold truly free elections.

That's it? That was short.

And what makes elections "truly free" as opposed to the elections in Russia?

Quoting:

The 1993 constitution declares Russia a democratic, federative, law-based state with a republican form of government. State power is divided among the legislative, executive, and judicial branches.

From the anti-Russian theconversation.com:

Even eliminating viable opposition can't ensure certain victories at the polls. To eliminate all risk, as Russia demonstrates, autocrats must take four additional steps:

1. Dominate the media message by controlling major news outlets through ownership, creating laws that stifle press freedom and repressing outspoken journalists.

2. Assert control over local government officials who then ensure that voters turn out to support the regime.

3. Build a vote tabulation process that allows ballot stuffing and falsified vote counts.

4. Declare victory immediately and allow no questioning of the results.


For a moment, I thought I was reading about the US. To Russia's credit, they don't allow the dead to vote. We do.
pawian 176 | 15,325
12 Apr 2021 #64
declares Russia a democratic

And the Kremlin controlled Duma aka Parliament has just voted a change to the Constitution so that Putin isn`t constrained any more to only two consecutive terms but can serve one term after another without limits. That`s democracy ala Russe. :):)

Hold truly free elections.

Please, stop being so naive, like a kid. If Russia holds truly free elections, it will disintegrate very quickly into two dozens seperate states, conflicted with each other. Who is going to keep the nuclear briefcase then???
Novichok 1 | 2,761
12 Apr 2021 #65
Putin isn`t constrained anymore to only two consecutive terms

What is not democratic about THAT?
The US used to have no limit and was never viewed as a dictatorship.

If Russia holds truly free elections

What is that "truly free"? Without a gun to my head?

it will disintegrate very quickly into two dozens separate states,

The US tried to separate in 1863. The central government stopped it with the brutality Stalin would be proud of. Was the US a democracy then?
pawian 176 | 15,325
12 Apr 2021 #66
The US used to have no limit and was never viewed as a dictatorship

Until wise people realised it was harmful to the state`s condition and changed it. Yes, I know you dreamt of Trump serving 5 terms one after another but can you imagine what shythole the US would be afterwards???

What is that "truly free"?

Ask Milo, he invented it.

The central government stopped it with the brutality Stalin would be proud of.

And quite correctly coz those cruel Southerners kept poor slaves and treated them in the most inhumane way. They didn`t want to relinquish so they were slapped around and taught a lesson.

Don`t comment on my remarks coz we mustn`t run into an off topic debate.
Novichok 1 | 2,761
13 Apr 2021 #67
Don`t comment on my remarks coz

...but I can comment about Russia. Again, what would Russia have to do to deserve the democracy label?
For reference only, in the US it takes a billion bucks to be president. In Russia, it takes zero. Which one is more democratic?
If Poles and the Chinese can be friends, why not Poles and Russians?
Cargo pants 2 | 1,099
13 Apr 2021 #68
Russia have to do to deserve the democracy label?

Plot an assasination.
Novichok 1 | 2,761
13 Apr 2021 #69
I would hate to guess wrong what you meant. Can you help me?
Spike31 2 | 2,224
21 Apr 2021 #70
The problem is that there's almost no Russians left.

A modern society of a Russian Federation doesn't have much in common with traditional Russians.

A standard citizen of a Russian Federation is an unreformed homo sovieticus ruled by a KGB officer and his clique.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
21 Apr 2021 #71
And what is traditional Russians?
Spike31 2 | 2,224
21 Apr 2021 #72
And what is traditional Russians?

Those who lived and existed on those lands before being methodically replaced by homo sovietus in the last century.

A good test is to ask common folk in Russia what do they think about Lenin, Stalin, and the Soviet Union.

Those who answer that two of the greatest mass murderers in the history of humankind and a criminal organization they created called the USSR contributed to the greatness of their nation are homo sovietcus.

And those who see that for what they were are Russians.
pawian 176 | 15,325
21 Apr 2021 #73
what do they think about Lenin, Stalin, and the Soviet Union

But Stalin and other communist leaders were only another version of Russian autocratic imperialism. Stalin or tsars like Ivan the Terrible - no difference.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
21 Apr 2021 #74
Stalin or tsars like Ivan the Terrible - no difference.

That is one. Plus it's funny to deny them their Russianism ( :) ) because we don't agree with their opinions.
Strzelec35 28 | 1,614
21 Apr 2021 #75
I agree with their opinions tho. whatchya got to say about that?
Spike31 2 | 2,224
21 Apr 2021 #76
Stalin or tsars like Ivan the Terrible - no difference.

True, there are similarities between them. Ivan was unique in cruelty and total control of his country for his times, no other country in Europe had a tyrant of his magnitude at that time.

And he probably wouldn't feel out of place in the XX century Soviet Union. He was a favourite Tzar of J.Stalin and the only one that was allowed during the Stalinist era.

And I'm not saying that Russians didn't have that collective 'must obey and suffer' mentality before.

But there's also no denying the fact that Lenin and Stalin took it to the next level and mastered 'the art' of genocide and mass indoctrination with modern methods like no one before them.

Communists not only killed millions of them but also made spam out of the brains of most of the remaining population.
pawian 176 | 15,325
21 Apr 2021 #77
Stalin took it to the next level and mastered 'the art' of genocide

His Georgian origin might have contributed to it, too. He spoke Russian with a heavy accent.

Yet, over 50% Russians today believe he was a great leader coz he made Soviet Russia a superpower.
Spike31 2 | 2,224
21 Apr 2021 #78
And that's exactly why I refer to them as homo sovieticus
pawian 176 | 15,325
21 Apr 2021 #79
Look , let`s not be so harsh on Russians - brainwashed people are everywhere. Two years ago in Poland about 43% voted for neobolshevik rightists. What should we say about it? Homo what? Homo polonicus moronicus?
Miloslaw 9 | 3,032
21 Apr 2021 #80
The only friendship between Poles and Russians exists amongst ordinary people.
The countries and politicians have always hated each orher... Except in Commie times .... And even then.....
Spike31 2 | 2,224
23 Apr 2021 #81
@Miroslaw, sure and yet ordinary people have nothing to say in Russia that is ruled by an ex-KGB mafia. Not like they had anything to say ever before in the history of Russia...
pawian 176 | 15,325
23 Apr 2021 #82
ordinary people have nothing to say

Yes. But is it different in Poland? No.
Spike31 2 | 2,224
23 Apr 2021 #83
@pawian, go to Russia and find out for yourself.

And be sure that would you say and do exactly the same stuff you would do in Poland. You know: discuss politics with common folks especially in public places, criticize local politicians and their decisions, speak Polish, drive a car with Polish plates, just relax and be yourself etc...

A personal experience is the best teacher :-)
Crow 147 | 9,317
23 Apr 2021 #84
Poland is lucky, as we all know. USA`s and Russia`s partner in Europe. Plus, Serbs love Poland.
Crnogorac3 2 | 345
23 Apr 2021 #85
Poland is lucky, as we all know. USA`s and Russia`s partner in Europe.

Yes, this is why Poland expelled Russian diplomats just a few days ago... This is a real sign of partnership between Poland and Russia.

rferl.org/a/poland-expels-three-russian-diplomats-in-solidarity-with-united-states/31206030.html

Not to mention joining anti-Russian sanctions which in previous times as we all know was considered as an act of war. It harmed Poland more than it did Russia, Poles lost the lucrative Russian market and the Russians can pay. For example before joining anti-Russian sanctions Poland was the world's leading producer & exporter of apples and has since fallen into third place.

dw.com/en/polish-apples-feel-the-crunch/a-19294384

@Crow

Your posts have as much to do with reality as a penguin with the Sahara. I mean don't you ever get tired or bored with writing such crap and b/s?
Crow 147 | 9,317
23 Apr 2021 #86
Yes, this is why Poland expelled

Why preserve image of Poland as fanatically against Russia, when it isn`t truth. That just isn`t truth.

Why Poland expelled Russian diplomats? Let me tell you why. It must give something to EU cow so EU cow allow Poland some more milking. This is most simplistically speaking.

Much more important thing for Slavic world is that Poland allow to Russia use of Poland`s air space for sending weaponry to Serbia. THAT is much more important than expelling diplomats. As far as we know, right in this moment Russia thru Poland`s air space maybe transport more S-400 or even S-500 to Serbia, or Armata tanks, Mig-31 or ICBM. Poland don`t ask, don`t disrupts transports. You heard what said commander of Hungarian army when NATO and EU protested? He perfectly calm said `Well, but they using civilian planes for transport. And all papers/documents are fine. Everything is legal`.

See, there is the deeper deal behind all this that include entire Visegrad. No, Poland isn `t stupid. Non in Central Europe is stupid. Western Europe wants to fo* with Russia, western Europe play that sex without Central Europe. Not to say that Poland have its very own interests to see Serbia strong and well armed. If that arms comes from Russia, fine with Poland.
Crow 147 | 9,317
23 Apr 2021 #87
Serbia is only country in Europe that would declare war on Germany in first 24 hours after Germany attacks Poland. Only Serbia. Pressure of public here on government would be irresistible. Than, that would drag Russia in war on the side of Poland and most certainly China. Just than would react rest of Visegrad, if ever. And who knows how would react western Europe. Maybe on the side of Germany if they are stupid and greed. They are stupid and greed.

Poland knows this. Duda knows. All factors in Poland knows this. Adam Mizkiewich was aware of this mechanism and spoke of this with Czartorisky.

That is why, among other things, Poland support arming of Serbia.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,549
23 Apr 2021 #88
....after Germany attacks Poland.

With what? Throwing Lederhosen??? :)
Crow 147 | 9,317
23 Apr 2021 #89
If it suits to western Europe and USA, if their calculations suggest so, Germany would be fully armed in less than a decade and parallel with it indoctrinated with propaganda. Than they would be sent (never to return) as cannon fodder ground troops on Russia, while would rest of NATO act with warplanes and rockets from the distance.


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