It's either what's in her head or DNA. Which one is it?
In other words, is it objectively testable or by self-declaration, and, therefore, not testable?
In other words, is it objectively testable or by self-declaration, and, therefore, not testable?
What do Poles owe to Jews?
the immediate offspring is automatically Jewish,
As far as I know Soviet nationality policy (evrej-) didn't work that way....
The Soviet Union had a lot of other cockamamy notions, any resemblance either to the truth or to reality being entirely coincidental-:)
So how does one determine Jewish ethnicity rather than religion? Especially since so many ethnic Jews are no longer religious at all......
...and that all Jews who convert to Christianity remain (and still recognize themselves as being) Jewish.
If the mother isn't Jewish but the father is, the child isn't automatically Jewish?
If not, what exactly is being Jewish? Is not ethnic?
We should also ask what Jews owe Gentiles. The answer is we owe each other much...and it has nothing to do with redress of historical grievances. We have contributed to each others cultures, economic and social well-being in many positive ways. The perpetual victim-victimizer schtick often distorts that reality.
If the mother is of Jewish heritage, the immediate offspring is automatically Jewish
If the mother isn't Jewish but the father is, the child isn't automatically Jewish?
If not, what exactly is being Jewish? Is not ethnic?
Or to put a finer point on the question, what do GENTILES owe Jews?
We should also ask what Jews owe Gentiles. The answer is we owe each other much...and it has nothing to do with redress of historical grievances. We have contributed to each others cultures, economic and social well-being in many positive ways. The perpetual victim-victimizer schtick often distorts that reality.
Bratwurst Boy 10 | 12869
1 Jul 2021 #486
Well, I think as long Israel's survival is threatened daily they have all rights to demand support from its former torturers...I wish Germany would be more direct in its support not trying to appease the sultanats at the same time too!
Christianity remain (and still recognize themselves as being) Jewish.
Run it by me one more time...A Jewish guy that converts to Christianity is still Jewish. A Jewish Christian, of Christian Jew?
No wonder so many don't like them. Just reading this stuff makes my head spin.
Bratwurst Boy 10 | 12869
1 Jul 2021 #488
No wonder so many don't like them.
I like them! Plucky people, survived the worst and still kicking strong!
@Bratwurst Boy
The State of Israel isn't the same as the Jewish people. Not all Jews are Israelis. Besides, the formation of Israel as a political nation was in the works before European Jews were being tortured by you uncivilized Europeans, check out the Balfour Declaration.
@Novichok
A Christian Jew is still a Jew, like, say, a baptized Pole who converts to Hinduism is still a Pole, just a Hindu Pole.
A lot of people also like them as a people. I admire them as a whole. Individually, they are like anybody else, some are great folks, others are complete a-holes, and others are run-of-the-mill.
The State of Israel isn't the same as the Jewish people. Not all Jews are Israelis. Besides, the formation of Israel as a political nation was in the works before European Jews were being tortured by you uncivilized Europeans, check out the Balfour Declaration.
@Novichok
A Christian Jew is still a Jew, like, say, a baptized Pole who converts to Hinduism is still a Pole, just a Hindu Pole.
A lot of people also like them as a people. I admire them as a whole. Individually, they are like anybody else, some are great folks, others are complete a-holes, and others are run-of-the-mill.
What you just wrote means that Jews are never Poles. Just as Mongolians are never Mexicans.
Bratwurst Boy 10 | 12869
1 Jul 2021 #491
The State of Israel isn't the same as the Jewish people.
But it is their one and only!
If Israel wouldn't exist it would be back to haunted minority across the countries for them....no more "safe haven" in the case of need.
Everybody else living there has alternatives (especially the Arabs), the Jews don't!
Jews are never Poles.
They are never Germans either, the history forbids it to call them that.....
@Novichok
What I wrote was supposed to distinguish religious belief from ethnic origins. Granted, the Jewish people's ethnicity is unique in that it is tied up with the Abrahamic faith, but one doesn't have to believe in that faith to be a descendant of Jews.
Your example illustrates only ethnic origins or the difference between ethnic origin and national residency or citizenship.
@ BB
I think it's a more complicated than that, but I get your point.
What I wrote was supposed to distinguish religious belief from ethnic origins. Granted, the Jewish people's ethnicity is unique in that it is tied up with the Abrahamic faith, but one doesn't have to believe in that faith to be a descendant of Jews.
Your example illustrates only ethnic origins or the difference between ethnic origin and national residency or citizenship.
@ BB
I think it's a more complicated than that, but I get your point.
People should be known by what is objectively testable. Like sex, DNA, fingerprints, and retinas, for example. Religions and other mental disorders - like guys pretending to be girls - are not permanent and subject to change by the individual himself. Hence, with zero forensic value.
The single, dumbest thing is irreversibly mutilating your body and adhering to a unique dress code. Jews, with all their smarts and intelligence, were extraordinarily stupid in this regard.
The single, dumbest thing is irreversibly mutilating your body and adhering to a unique dress code. Jews, with all their smarts and intelligence, were extraordinarily stupid in this regard.
What do Poles owe to Jews?
Nothing.Except respect.
I just wish that some Jews, especially in America, would offer Poles that same respect.
As Yad Vashim does.
Nothing.Except respect.
I just wish that some Jews, especially in America, would offer Poles that same respect.
As Yad Vashim does.
I just wish that some Jews, especially in America, would offer Poles that same respect.
That would be a clue they want something.
AMDD
5 Jul 2021 #496
Still, they had Jewish background and as such they are eligible to be discussed in this thread.
I don't deny it. Nevertheless their culture is Polish, if not European.
On the other hand, Singer, originally from Lublin, is of Jewish culture. Szulc, from Drohobycz, talks about Jewish traditions and not badly with the tone of mockery (his many drawings of erotic excesses, even of the Orthodox)
What does it mean to you, your distinction "Polish Jews or Jewish Poles
I often provide such double distinction so that nobody feels hurt which sometimes happens when only one notion is offered and they feel excluded.
However, all of them had Polish nationality. It is not the fault of non-Jewish Poles, that 85% did not even speak the language and separated themselves from the others. In another European country, it would be unthinkable.
PS. I'm surprised you don't insult me, as you usually do. You owe me an apology. If I or someone else insulted your family without knowing them, like you did, I can imagine your violent reaction.
Nevertheless their culture is Polish, if not European.
I don`t deny it. I said it many times.
I'm surprised you don't insult me, as you usually do.
No, I never insult people first - it is always my reaction to sb else`s action against me. You insulted me first, calling me a bad name in your post to Alien or Grunwald. Then I paid you back. Simple.
You owe me an apology.
Maybe. But you need to do it first coz it was you who started it. :):)
It is not the fault of non-Jewish Poles, that 85% did not even speak the language
This is a topic for discussion, but in another thread.:):)
Those who don't speak the local language are a hostile, parasitic, foreign tribe, and a tumor to be cut and expelled.
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #499
@Novichok
You should be happy you don't live in Tsarist Russia then. That's exactly the type of mindset they had about any minorities they deemed hostile towards the Russian state.
You should be happy you don't live in Tsarist Russia then. That's exactly the type of mindset they had about any minorities they deemed hostile towards the Russian state.
I speak the local language so I am not sure how your post relates to my case.
There are two kinds of minorities: by conquest and through immigration. Jews in Poland were immigrants and had a moral obligation to become indistinguishable from those who invited them. I moved to the US to be like them, language and loyalty included, not to add to "the Polish-American community".
There are two kinds of minorities: by conquest and through immigration. Jews in Poland were immigrants and had a moral obligation to become indistinguishable from those who invited them. I moved to the US to be like them, language and loyalty included, not to add to "the Polish-American community".
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #501
I mean, if your line of thought was a reality everywhere and a group who would come to power in the U.S.A that deemed you or your kids to be operated away like a surgeon, then having to flee america. Your chances of survival would be quite slim
I am not clear why anyone would want to expel or harm my family since we are like the rest of Americans in every single aspect. We speak only English and have nothing that would suggest that my wife and I came from Poland.
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #503
@Novichok
Your lucky then, in Norway the "Sami" are still considered immigrants according to national statistics. Despite them living in northern parts of modern day Norway before the state of Norway came to existence.
Your lucky then, in Norway the "Sami" are still considered immigrants according to national statistics. Despite them living in northern parts of modern day Norway before the state of Norway came to existence.
in Norway the "Sami" are still considered immigrants
Anyone who is born in Norway, speaks Norwegian, and is 100% loyal to Norway is a Norwegian. Did I get it right?
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #505
@Novichok
Definitely not
That's only the Labour Party's view and those on the left as long as you accept the society to be without any class, while having a king as head of state and party connections behaving like a depraved elite.
While the right side of politics think of anyone who has immigrated or have an immigrant parent (even one) is basically a visiting foreigner and maybe their kids might one day be Norwegian.
So no, your wrong
Definitely not
That's only the Labour Party's view and those on the left as long as you accept the society to be without any class, while having a king as head of state and party connections behaving like a depraved elite.
While the right side of politics think of anyone who has immigrated or have an immigrant parent (even one) is basically a visiting foreigner and maybe their kids might one day be Norwegian.
So no, your wrong
maybe their kids might one day be Norwegian.
Maybe and might are not legal terms.
Legally, what conditions one must meet to be seen by the current Norwegian government as a native-born Norwegian without asterisks, hyphens, buts, or however?
I am not talking about being a naturalized Norwegian citizen.
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #507
@Novichok
The laws about those things have changed dramatically since 1980's. One year you aren't officially allowed two passports, next you are allowed! Maybe in two years it changes again. It's not that clear and I have no intention of schooling myself with new laws taking place constantly. I am no politician or advocate
The laws about those things have changed dramatically since 1980's. One year you aren't officially allowed two passports, next you are allowed! Maybe in two years it changes again. It's not that clear and I have no intention of schooling myself with new laws taking place constantly. I am no politician or advocate
what conditions one must meet to be seen by the current Norwegian government as a native-born Norwegian
Norway, like Poland, has the right of blood.
Oathbreaker 4 | 331
5 Jul 2021 #509
@Lenka
That's by the state, but yes. You are right
That's by the state, but yes. You are right
Let's cut the crap...Who is a Pole? Or a Norwegian?