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What do Poles owe to Germans?


Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
11 Sep 2011  #61
I have to do it in self defence before you send me to a gas chamber, like you did with millions of people before.

So Sokrates is responsiblefor gassing millions Pawain? What is the matter with you? You think Poles owe Germans for being made a vassal kingdom of the HRE? That is just plain wrong. The Germans owe the Poles for the latter's deigning to submit to vassalhood. As for the "holy spear" subsequent German crimes against Poles have long ago negated that debt.
Sokrates 8 | 3,348    
11 Sep 2011  #62
Des

You think Poles owe Germans for being made a vassal kingdom of the HRE?

A vassal duchy! Germans attempted to stop the coronation, they did not want Poland to become a kingdom.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
11 Sep 2011  #63
Then I have been misinformed. I had read that the Germans when faced with the splendor of the polish grand prince's court insisted he become a king rather than a duke.
Sokrates 8 | 3,348    
11 Sep 2011  #64
Bolesław Chrobry used the short time HRE had no emperor to crown himself, otherwise Germans would never agree to have a king, basically a duke had to obey the HRE while the king could tell them to f*ck themselves, which he and his son did via a series of wars.
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #65
As for the "holy spear" subsequent German crimes against Poles have long ago negated that debt.

That`s simpleton`s way of thinking. What has the Holy Lance got in common with Nazi crimes??? :):):)

These are two seperate things, aren`t they?

The Holy Lance replica is venerated in Poland as if it was a real spear which hurt Jesus` body. It was a gift from Germans.

Can you refute it?

You can discuss Nazi crimes in 100 threads in the forum.

Do you really need to do it here?

It seems you can`t read not only Polish, but English either.

Read the title of the thread and if you have problems with understanding, use the dictionary.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
11 Sep 2011  #66
What has the Holy Lance got in common with Nazi crimes

There were many German crimes against Poland before the Nazis. What does the Holy Lance have to do with modern Poles?
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #67
What does the Holy Lance have to do with modern Poles?

Look at my previous post.

I wrote:
The Holy Lance replica is venerated in Poland as if it was a real spear which hurt Jesus` body. It was a gift from Germans.

Can you refute it?

sascha 1 | 830    
11 Sep 2011  #68
OK, don`t worry, I will try to develop What do Poles owe to Russians too.

cheap one, but ok. i am still german. stop mixing me with sasha, ok??

anyway, this particular thread my deliver some new info, but all in total it is not productive.

enjoy the argue ;)
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #69
cheap one, but ok. i am still german. stop mixing me with sasha, ok??

:):):):):):):):):):):):)

Do you know what qui pro quo means?

If not, google it.

Sasha, the Russian, I am so sorry for this blunder. :):):):):):):):) Another guy was pretending to be you and he caught me. :):):):):)

Anyway, this particular thread my deliver some new info,

You bet!

but all in total it is not productive.

Why is that?

enjoy the argue ;)

I certainly do and will. :):):):)
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
11 Sep 2011  #70
Pawian, yes. So you are a proponent of eternal causation? Do you really think I should pay for the crimes of my forefathers/predecessors? Must gifts always be returned?
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #71
Do you really think I should pay for the crimes of my forefathers/predecessors?

Stop trolling the thread.
Its main topic isn`t any crimes, OK?
:):):)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
11 Sep 2011  #72
This thread is not productive because it implies that Poles have a debt to Germans, which given the last several centuries of history is ridiculous. Pawain says this thread should be taken to mean only gratitude is owed, but isn't there a statute of limitatons on gratitude? I'm sure Boleslaw thanked the Germans for the replica of Longinus's lance . Do the Poles of today have to thank the Germans of today for it? Surely not.
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
11 Sep 2011  #73
Trolling? Pawian, you are talking about owing which operates on many levels and a maelstrom of complications are involved. It's centrally relevant what I'm saying. If sth is owed then there is a time and place for that. If you choose to see otherwise then you run the risk of delving into the ridiculous. The world owes Scotland a lot in that case for creating much of the modern world but do we expect anything? No, as we are advancing humanity in so doing.
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #74
Do the Poles of today have to thank the Germans of today for it? Surely not.

OMG, this troll again.....

I don`t force anybody to thank. Poles are free to do what they want.

Personally, I want to thank Germans for everything good they did in and for Poland.

Thank you, Germans!

:):):):)
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
11 Sep 2011  #75
Credit where credit is due, yes. However, how was I trolling?
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #76
DES ESS This thread is not productive because it implies that Poles have a debt to Germans

Hey, don`t you know that when you are not sure about some English words, you can consult a dictionary? :):):)
If you had at the very beginning of reading this thread, it would have spared us a lot of your useless posts.

TO OWE:

3
to have something only because someone or something has helped you
owe something to someone/something:

The company owes its success to its excellent training programme.

owe much/a lot/a great deal to someone/something:

The cathedral clearly owes a great deal to French design.

4
to feel grateful to someone because of the way that they have helped you
owe someone something:

We really owe you a great deal for all your hard work this year.

Thesaurus entry for this meaning of owe


you are talking about owing which operates on many levels and a maelstrom of complications are involved.

The later it gets, the more prone to philosophy you become. :):):)

Come on. Don`t make simple things so complicated. :):):):):)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
11 Sep 2011  #77
Pawain, if there is no debt implied in this thread's titular question, but only owing to the Germans for them having given Poland things which Poland wouldn't have had if it were not for the Germans, then why do you insist we only mention positive things? It seems to me that the list of negative things Poland owes to the Germans, such as mass graves and death camps, is far more extensive than the positive things Poles owe them.
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
11 Sep 2011  #78
Ok, I'll be sure to insist on a display of gratitude from my students tomorrow ;)
Ironside 47 | 9,503    
11 Sep 2011  #79
The best PM ever L. Miller !
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
11 Sep 2011  #80
then why do you insist we only mention positive things?

It is my thread and I set the rules. I have the right to it.

If you want to discuss dark sides, go and start your own thread. :):):)

Fair enough??

Besides, it seems you still don`t understand simple English:

It seems to me that the list of negative things Poland owes to the Germans, such as mass graves and death camps, is far more extensive than the positive things Poles owe them.

What did I write a few posts above?:

to feel grateful to someone because of the way that they have helped you

Are Poles grateful for mass graves and death camps? No.

Should Poles be grateful for the Holy Lance? Yes.

Don`t you understand that intelligent people are able to see the difference bewteen these two????

If you can`t grasp it, get the f..k out of here and stop trolling at last!
Ironside 47 | 9,503    
12 Sep 2011  #81
So get the f..k out of here and stop trolling at last!

yeah, everybody out ....leave the OP alone, he can can have a proper conversation with his multiple personalities and/or monikers
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
12 Sep 2011  #82
pawian: It is my thread and I set the rules.

This thread's title asks a question and the OP talks exclusively about a Cracovian altarpiece carved by a German. You came back to the thread some time later and said this thread should only mention positive German contributions to Poland. You should've at least clarified the limits of what was acceptable in this thread in the OP, or better yet had the titular question stipulate them. You instead opted to act like a petulant baby and insult people, but I suspect this whole thread is a ruse to allow you to do just that.
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
12 Sep 2011  #83
Coming back to the Congress in Gniezno in 1000.

Titbit:

Bolesław threw a giant banquet in Otto`s honour. It lasted 3 days and delicious dishes like bear paws were served. At the end of it, the Emperor and his court were presented with all goldware and silverware from the tables.

The sumptuousness with which Otto was entertained in Poland amazed contemporary politicians and chroniclers.

Prince Boleslaw Chrobry welcomes the emperor Otto III in Gniezno, then the capital of Poland. The emperor came to the grave of St. Wojciech and by the way discussed his far-reaching political plans. Bestowing the Polish Prince friendship and trust, he wanted to obtain him for his great idea of the resurrection of the Roman Empire.

Prince Boleslaw prepared for the arrival of the emperor marvelous miracles; first detachments from all sorts of chivalry, then spread his dignitaries, as the choirs, on a large plain, and the individual, separate brigades were distinguished by different color clothes. And it was not just a cheap motley or sloppy adornment, but the most expensive things you can find anywhere in the world

restaurants.pl/ciekawostki/historyk/gniezno.htm

You should've at least clarified the limits of what was acceptable in this thread in the OP, or better yet had the titular question stipulate them.

I didn`t do it because:

1. I supposed I dealt with intelligent people who would be able to see my intentions. Wasn`t it clearly positive-oriented at the beginning when I started with Wit Stwosz altarpiece example and such frigging words??:

Sheit, I made a thread about Russian contribution and forgot to do the same with German one.
After all, they are our most important neighbours and require even treatment.


Are you really so limited that you couldn`t guess what I meant by doing and saying the above???

God, why do I have to work with such simpletons????

2. I knew it would have no effect whatsoever and various trolls would fly in swarms like moths to a lamp.

You instead opted to act like a petulant baby

I love acting like that, I feel so much younger! :):):):)

Ok, can you get back to the topic at last????
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
12 Sep 2011  #84
Pawain, You should have titled the thread "For what are Poles ingratiated to Germans?" Just showing the altarpiece as an indication of this type of "owing" wrongly assumes that your reader would invariably see this example of religious art as a positive thing. Perhaps you are unaware of the popular colloquilalism "payback" that invokes a negative type of owing, one that causes the reader of this thread's title to think of revenge.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,292    
12 Sep 2011  #85
Ok, can you get back to the topic at last????

No, you are behaving rudely and you may have this thread all to yourself and your emoticons now.
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
12 Sep 2011  #86
Does it mean you will be gone from here at last??? :):):):)

See you in other threads where you are quite normal and I do enjoy your input there.

However, your anti-German obsession has blinded you and discussing things with you here is no use.
sascha 1 | 830    
12 Sep 2011  #87
However, your anti-German obsession has blinded you and discussing things with you here is no use.

i dont think that de is anti german. we come along quite well. :)

it is maybe the concept or style of this thread...

i made my remarks above ;)
OP pawian 151 | 7,983    
12 Sep 2011  #88
=sascha]
it is maybe the concept or style of this thread...

The concept is mine. The style is mine too, although it has been a bit spoiled by trolls.

Any problems?

i made my remarks above ;)

Wow! Shall I kneel down now?

:):):):):):):)

You are lucky one of my characteristics is my weakness towards Germans. Otherwise, I would say: get lost and troll in another thread!
:):):):):):):)
RetroDog    
12 Sep 2011  #89
have you titled this thread " what Germans have done good to Poland" it would have been different matter. You choose to title it provocative you have people being angry. way to go
sascha 1 | 830    
12 Sep 2011  #90
Any problems?

nein

Wow! Shall I kneel down now?

nein

You are lucky one of my characteristics is my weakness towards Germans

:)

Otherwise, I would say: get lost and troll in another thread!

e, i am far away from trolling.


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