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When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed?


Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Aug 2010 #241
BB, the League of Nations ruled on it as far back as 1921. They denied you access to most of the coalfields and, well, war yields such results. Polonization?? The majority of Germans voted for Hitler and there must be those that suffer as a result. It's analogous to the situation of Serbs in Bosnia. They got murdered by the locals there. However, after WWI, it happened by official authorities recognising the change. If you can accept Kosovo's independence, you can accept that.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #242
If you can accept Kosovo's independence, you can accept that.

Erm...when did I say ever otherwise Seanie?

Please quote me....

The much cherished, successfull, colorful, precious Silesia is long gone ...most people living there now are just Poles.
I don't want that back, sorry! ;)
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #243
Silesian became "polish" by force after 1945...that means the language and the land. It was not polish before, neither the language nor the land. It's called "polonization"!

the language got polonized? i thought it was surpressed? which is it? can't really be both.

You are the product of this brainwashing.

not at all.. just because germans took it from PL (or slavs) for a few centuries, doesn't make it german. or is it "once german, always german"? like the russkies and the chinese?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #244
the language got polonized? i thought it was surpressed? which is it? can't really be both.

You are playing dumb now, aren't you? ;)
How do you think polonizing works? Or Germanizing....or any other "-izing".
You opress the language, the customs, people change their names to not be discriminated, become more polish than the real Poles to avoid punishments...or just leave.

Millions of Silesians left for Germany during the decades...

Just read some more and inform yourself....you have alot of catching up to do.
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #245
You are playing dumb now, aren't you? ;)

Just read some more and inform yourself....you have alot of catching up to do.

who is playing dumb and who needs to catch up? see below bud.

/wiki/Silesian_language

you must not have read your own link; thanks for proving i am right once again:

Slavic language spoken in the region of Silesia.

Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #246
you must not have read your own link; thanks for proving i am right once again:

ROFL, my grandparents surely did not speak something Slavic...so don't do the people in the video! ;)

Lower Silesian language (Lower Silesian: Schläsch), is a German dialect spoken in Lower Silesia. Today, the area is mainly in southwestern Poland, but as well as in northeastern Czech Republic and in eastern Germany. The group of dialects is nearly extinct.

This language is not to be confused with Silesian language, a Slavic dialect spoken today by the majority of inhabitants

/wiki/Lower_Silesian_language
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Aug 2010 #247
Ah well, there is interaction as it stands. I was chatting to a Polish guy who has lived a lot of his life in Dusseldorf. He doesn't feel the need to win anything back. The right of passage and right to own land are enough :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #248
The right of passage and right to own land are enough :)

My saying :)

And as I said...that isn't the Silesia of old anymore anyhow...

who is playing dumb and who needs to catch up? see below bud.

You are denying german history in western Poland alltogether...you are an ignorant dumb, that's all!
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #249
ROFL,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Silesian_language

yet, you're the one who supplied the other link too.. are you slipping? ;)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
30 Aug 2010 #250
the language got polonized?

You can't really 'polonize' a language if it isn't slavonic. A culture, yes, but to polonize the language, if it isn't already slavonic, would not work.

Millions of Silesians left for Germany during the decades...

I think that was the idea. There was a phrase about 'not wanting to have German meat covered by Polish gravy.'
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #251
You are denying german history in western Poland alltogether...you are an ignorant dumb, that's all!

nope, szczecin was really never polish until after ww2. :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #252
yet, you're the one who supplied the other link.. are you slipping? ;)

Somehow you really have problems to understand the chain of events:

After World War II, Polish authorities banned the use of the German language altogether

A culture, yes, but to polonize the language, if it isn't already slavonic, would not work.

You don't need to polonize a language, only the people speaking it! Terrorize one generation into Poles and you make sure the next generation grows up as Poles, speaking polish....there is nothing new in that...

Happened on both sides during the centuries!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
30 Aug 2010 #253
Let the generation representatives do their thing. I know Poles in Lower Silesia with German passports and they are easy to get due to old ties. They tend to want to learn German and interact with Germans. There is relative harmony :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #254
That's why I see now the silesian future more rosy...alot of Germans are investing there...not only because it's so near to Germany but because of old family ties and maybe they are really different to other Poles from other parts of the country, who knows.

But I don't know how such a separation movement should work...to many "polish Poles" are living there now...they have nothing to do with the Silesians of old or the silesian culture and customs.
pawian 177 | 14,593
30 Aug 2010 #255
Silesian became "Polish" by force after 1945...that means the language and the land. It was not polish before, neither the language nor the land. It's called "Polonization"!

Hmm, I think you are wrong. After all, there were 3 Uprisings against Germans in Silesia.

My post from another thread:
A large part of Silesia was returned to Poland after 3 Uprisings organised by Silesians against German rule of terror and injustice, in 1919-1921.
The Silesian Uprisings (German: Aufstände in Oberschlesien; Polish: Powstania śląskie) were a series of three armed uprisings of the Poles and Polish Silesians of Upper Silesia, from 1919-1921, against German rule; the resistance hoped to break away from Germany in order to join the Second Polish Republic, which had been established in the wake of World War I. In the latter-day history of Poland after World War II, the insurrections were celebrated as centrepieces of national pride.

Read complete history: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Uprisings

The second Uprising was shown in a beautiful film The Salt of the Black Soil. It is available on Youtube in 10 parts:
Part 7 shows some heavy street fighting at 4.00:
...

Watch it to the end because there is a love scene with a Polish flag in the background.
Zed - | 195
30 Aug 2010 #256
Bratwurst: if I ever wanted to regain Lwów for Poland I would employ you. :-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #257
After all, there were 3 Uprisings against Germans in Silesia.

The uprisings where a tool by Warsaw to get more of the cake they already got with the help of the Treaty of Versailles.

After all Silesia was the richest region, most industrial developed with rich coal fields...

The League of Nations organized a plebiscite to decide the issue in 1921, whose results (disputed by Poland) were skewed by the German population and therefore wished to remain part of Germany.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#History

"Skewed by the German population" my arse! Yeah....they voted overwhelmingly for staying in Germany...:)

But there really was a difference between upper and lower Silesia...upper Silesia more polish and lower Silesia being nearly totally German.

The most discussed of these three plebiscites in the German East was the one in Upper Silesia, since the region was one of Germany's principal industrial centers.
The most important economic asset was the enormous coal-mining industry and its ancillary businesses, but the area yielded iron, zinc, and lead as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Silesia_plebiscite
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #258
After World War II, Polish authorities banned the use of the German language altogether

but that's not silesian.. it's not me who is having comprehension problems.

Terrorize one generation into Poles and you make sure the next generation grows up as Poles, speaking polish....there is nothing new in that...

but they aren't speaking polish but silesian.

they voted overwhelmingly for staying in Germany...:)

because the germans monkeyed with the votes.. you even said that yourself earlier.. thus it didn't really count..

lower silesia was more german because you guys germanized it. ;P :D
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #259
Bratwurst: if I ever wanted to regain Lwów for Poland I would employ you. :-)

Nah...my russian is rusty at best! :)

lower silesia was more german because you guys germanized it. ;P :D

I don't remember any mass expellations of millions of Poles...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#History

And we were there first! ;)

Silesia has been inhabited from time immemorial by people of multiple ethnic groups. Germanic tribes were first recorded within Silesia in the 1st century. Slavic peoples arrived in this territory around the 6th century.

because the germans monkeyed with the votes.. you even said that yourself earlier.. thus it didn't really count..

Yeah..they were the majority in many places...who had no interest to live in a polish state...how bad of them! How dare they to skew the votes like that!!! :(

Not wanting to live in a polish state had many Silesians actually in common. Millions left Poland over the decades to live in Germany!
Thank you Klose, thank you Poldi! :)
Zed - | 195
30 Aug 2010 #260
No russian there BB, you would have to educate yourself in Ukrainian :-).... many polish words but eastern slavic grammar
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #261
*slaps forehead* Yeah..how could I forget! :)
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #262
Yeah..they were the majority in many places...who had no interest to live in a polish state...how bad of them! How dare they to skew the votes like that!!! :(

no, it was these "silesians" that really weren't that cast their "votes".. you know, Chicago style.

Not wanting to live in a polish state had many Silesians actually in common. Millions left Poland over the decades to live in Germany!

got kicked out after ww2.. yes, i'll give you that. but klose and podli left under communism.. just like millions of other poles.. nothing unusual there.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #263
no, it was these "silesians" that really weren't that cast their "votes".. you know, Chicago style.

Oh forget about it....this plebiscite was controlled and observed by the League of Nations and counted as fair and square in the end.
OF COURSE the Poles protested as they lost this voting clearly! ROFL

but klose and podli left under communism.

And because of the opression of the german silesian minority...they could use the german law what made those of german ancestry to german citizens if they so chose.

They could have immigrated everywhere...to the US, to Great Britain, to France...but they chose Germany!

There had been several such waves of immigration...the latest during the 80's with around a million Silesians leaving.
plk123 8 | 4,149
30 Aug 2010 #264
Oh forget about it....this plebiscite was controlled and observed by the League of Nations and counted as fair and square in the end.

that is not what the conclusion was.. that's why the protest and then a win..

but they chose Germany!

i don't have a problem with that. it's all good as far as i am concerned.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #265
that is not what the conclusion was.. that's why the protest and then a win..

They (The league of Nations) really tried to find a pragmatic solution, but it was not easy with the Poles always demanding more and more and more and with many places so heavily mixed...the towns overwhelmingly German with the farms around more Polish.

The polish nationalist policy didn't help...they tried everything to heat up nationalist and ethnical strife (like with the uprisings) and used that to further unrest and fights.

If it had gone as the Poles wanted there would had been a mass ethnical cleansing in Silesia already before the war!
pawian 177 | 14,593
30 Aug 2010 #266
Oh forget about it....this plebiscite was controlled and observed by the League of Nations and counted as fair and square in the end.
OF COURSE the Poles protested as they lost this voting clearly! ROFL

Funny that, usually so careful about facts and details, you prefer to omit this important fact in several of your posts:

In the plebiscite, around 707,605 votes were cast for Germany, while 479,359 for Poland.[2] The Germans thus had 228,246 votes of majority. A right to vote was granted to those aged 20 and older who had been born in or lived within the plebiscite area. A result was mass migration.[6] The German outvoters numbering 179,910; the Polish numbering over 10,000.[2] Without the outvoters, the Germans would have a majority of 58,336 instead of 228,246
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
30 Aug 2010 #267
Without the outvoters, the Germans would have a majority of 58,336 instead of 228,246

Yeah? Still a majority...;)
nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010 #268
they voted overwhelmingly for staying in Germany...:)

they couldn't keep it, though. Fighting against civilians unwilling to be Germans. Warsaw had no say the uprisings, being busy in the East, and then more like near Wisla.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
31 Aug 2010 #269
Oh please! Of course, the possibility of a land grab of a rich region had of course NOTHING to do with it....of course not...suuuuuuure!

That is one of these dear polish myths actually...those brave, patriotic miners fighting for their freedom against the german beasts! *snicker*

Isn't it ironic that Silesia flourished under prussian, german rule and detoriated under polish rules and that so so many Silesians voted with their feet for Germany even decades later...
pawian 177 | 14,593
31 Aug 2010 #270
Yeah? Still a majority...;)

It doesn`t matter now. What I thought funny was your omitting it in your posts.
I don`t think it was intentional.
That probably shows the difference in Polish and German historical education. The fact that Germans found and brought ex-Silesians from all Germany to take part in voting and win is commonly known in Poland. I remember it from primary school 30 years ago. :):):)

On the other hand, it is probably completely unknown in German teaching.


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