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If Poles were antisemitic, would they ...?


pawian 151 | 7,977    
5 Aug 2013  #1
Fanatic Jews accuse all Poles of being antisemites who "suck anti-Semitism with their mothers' milk. This is something that is deeply imbued in their tradition, their mentality." - Yitzhak Shamir.

They see in Poles - all Poles - the most antisemitic nation in the world. They seem not to perceive the symptoms of this social disease in Russia, Germany or other countries of our region.

Let`s see how antisemitic Poles are......

If they were antisemitic, would they offer objects of art based on Jewish motifs for sale in Clothes Hall in Kraków?





goofy_the_dog    
5 Aug 2013  #2
why make a thread about it ? it only spreads the notion...
instead you should make a thread about israeli army and how they treat the gaza zone..
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
5 Aug 2013  #3
it only spreads the notion...

What makes you think so???

instead you should make a thread about israeli army and how they treat the gaza zone..

Why me? I am not interested in areas which are so distant from Poland. You make it...
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
5 Aug 2013  #4
If Poles were antisemitic, would they ............ ????

kultura.wp.pl/title,Chatskele-Chatskele-widowisko-muzyczne-w-Jidisz,wid,15855376,wydarzenie.html?ticaid=11112f



Wlodzimierz 4 | 544    
5 Aug 2013  #5
Jewish culture is soooooooo old in Poland that trying to avoid it (even with the conspicuous absence of Jews throughout much of the country aside from the capital!) is next to impossible; it's everywhere. Chances are that certain components of Polish culture ranging from traditional dishes to klezmer-like folk music etc. have some element of Jewishness in them. Not all Poles are antisemitic either. Wotyła and Jan Karski were examples of that!
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
5 Aug 2013  #6
Jewish culture is everywhere.

Right.

Chances are that certain components of Polish culture ranging from traditional dishes to klezmer-like folk music etc. have some element of Jewishness in them.

Of course.

Not all Poles are antisemitic either. Wotyła and Jan Karski were examples of that!

Obvious.

If Poles were antisemitic, would they

build the Museum of Polish Jews

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_History_of_Polish_Jews

Museum of Polish Jews

Museum of Polish Jews

Museum of Polish Jews
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
6 Aug 2013  #7
If Poles were antisemitic, would they ............ build the Museum of Polish Jews?

Well, there is no Museum of Finnish Jews in Finland. That must be proof that the Finnish people are antisemitic... ;)
Wlodzimierz 4 | 544    
6 Aug 2013  #8
In fact, the Finns sided with the Germans during WWII:-) Finnland likes to point out that their General Mannerheim was actually of Swedish decent....but we know betterLOL

:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
6 Aug 2013  #9
I chose Finland because the architects of the Warsaw museum are Finnish, but please feel free to replace Finnish with Ugandan... :)
poland_    
6 Aug 2013  #10
anti-Semitism with their mothers' milk. This is something that is deeply imbued in their tradition, their mentality." - Yitzhak Shamir.

So exactly who are you Pawian, the antagonist who continues to regurgitate bile.

If they were antisemitic, would they offer objects of art based on Jewish motifs for sale in Clothes Hall in Kraków?

Market traders are the same the world over, they will sell any sh1t people will buy, you really believe the market traders on the rynek in Krakow have a moral conscience. lmao
Wlodzimierz 4 | 544    
6 Aug 2013  #11
Warszawski, you have a good point here, I must admit. Often times I've met gentile Europeans wearing stars of David as though it were any ol' necklace (easily subsituted by a conventional cross), without the slightest awareness, or even worse, interest, in the fact that it's a Jewish symbol. Wonder if conversely in one hundred years, young people will blithely wear swasticas round their necks, merely because it looks different, unaware of it's historical meaning other than as an ancient Iranian symbol!!
Bieganski 17 | 906    
6 Aug 2013  #12
Why do people believe it is important to be pro-semitic (as in the often incorrect usage of the word Semitic to mean Jews and Jews only)? Should Jews be given more attention and respect than people of other faiths? No, they shouldn't. Should Jews be given preferential treatment over Poles, Turks, Haitians or anyone else on the planet for that matter? Certainly not. Jews squat to take a dump just like everyone else. They grow old, get sick and die too. Most of them are of average and even below average intelligence and live lackluster lives. Some end up in prison or live rough on the streets due to bankruptcy, alcoholism, drug abuse and mental illness. They are mere mortals.

"But we are Zionists and the Jews are "the Chosen ones!" you cry. Answer: Zionism is fascism based on ridiculous self-serving fairytales which unfortunately have proved to be popular with the most gullible among us.

"Never forget the Holocaust!" you demand! Face it, the Jews weren't the only ones to suffer and perish no matter what spin you put on the numbers. The life a Jew is not more special and precious than the life of anyone else. To believe otherwise is pure chauvinism if you are a Jewish and a demonstration of shameful obsequiousness if you are not.

"Jews are always singled out for verbal and physical abuse!" Oh no they're not. Anyone can be a victim of a crime or someone else's bullying. We wouldn't need so many laws if this wasn't the case. Jews have shown they can utter words and conduct themselves towards others in the most intolerant fashion no different than most. So if a Jew feels aggrieved by someone then it is a local matter to be taken up with the parties involved. The world need not hold its breath.

Therefore, selling tourist tat and building monuments and museums about Jews is sheer folly. The money blown on such navel-gazing projects would be better spent cleaning up the environment or building and maintaining public parks.
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #13
Well, there is no Museum of Finnish Jews in Finland.

Compare the influence that Jews had on culture and lifestyle in Poland and Finland.

So exactly who are you Pawian,

I am Neutral Observer from Poland, that`s all.

Bieganski, More or less you are right.

Therefore, selling tourist tat and building monuments and museums about Jews is sheer folly. The money blown on such navel-gazing projects would be better spent cleaning up the environment or building and maintaining public parks.

Of course not. As Włodzimierz mentioned before, the contribution of Jews into Polish culture is so big that Polish Jews certainly deserve to have monuments and museums.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
6 Aug 2013  #14
The money blown on such navel-gazing projects would be better spent cleaning up the environment or building and maintaining public parks.

Of course, you would see it as money 'blown' because you can't stand the thought of Jews in Poland.
dany_moussalli 13 | 263    
6 Aug 2013  #15
So if a Jew feels aggrieved by someone then it is a local matter to be taken up with the parties involved. The world need not hold its breath.

true ,I also heard that it is acceptable to make jokes about every religion except judaism in europe . they are people who suffered in the past (we can't deny that ) but others suffered too ,don't know why they are getting a "special treatment ",being accused as "antisemitic " is a serious charge in europe .

another thing, semitic people are an ethnicity ,judaism is a religion ,i'm semitic (aramean) but i'm not a jew .
yehudi 1 | 432    
6 Aug 2013  #16
another thing, semitic people are an ethnicity ,judaism is a religion

Jews are also an ethnicity, and a religion.
"Semitic" is actually a linguistic category. People only started using it to refer to Jews in the 19th century in Germany. The term was invented to make "Jew-hatred" sound more scientific. It went along with pseudo-scientific theories about the inferiority of the "Jewish race". So in that sense you're not Semitic. But in the linguistic sense you are. Welcome.

,i'm semitic (aramean) but i'm not a jew .

I'm also part Aramean, since Rachel and Leah, the wives of Jacob, were Aramean. On the night of Passover we recite a text that says "My father was a wandering Aramean, and he went down into Egypt..."
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #17
Market traders are the same the world over, they will sell any sh1t people will buy, you really believe the market traders on the rynek in Krakow have a moral conscience. lmao

Yes, but don`t focus on traders, only. For the trade to take place there must be also the other part, namely a buyer. I have seen those wooden figures and pictures with Jewish motiffs on stalls all over Poland. You don`t think that traders without moral conscience sell them to each other, do you?



dany_moussalli 13 | 263    
6 Aug 2013  #18
"Semitic" is actually a linguistic category.

still ,saying "anti-semitic " to people who hate jews isn't accurate ,also ,the hatred isn't towards the "jewish race" but to judaism as a religion .
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #19
I have seen those wooden figures



  • Wysowa

  • another
dany_moussalli 13 | 263    
6 Aug 2013  #20
pawian ,you're showing how polish aren't anti-jewish ,but can other people show how polish might be anti-jewish ?
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #21
pawian ,you're showing how polish aren't anti-jewish

Yes, that is the primary intention behind my starting and running this thread. And I want it to remain this way - showing how Jewish culture/heritage is accepted in today`s Poland, despite fanatic Jews` accusations of traditional Polish antisemitism.

but can other people show how polish might be anti-jewish ?

Yes, of course, I have nothing against, but you can do it in another thread, OK? As I said, let this thread stay decent.

Thanks for asking at all, you are a good guy although you have a problem with Jews. :):):):)
dany_moussalli 13 | 263    
6 Aug 2013  #22
Thanks for asking at all, you are a good guy although you have a problem with Jews

lol ,i'm not anti-jewish if that's what you're referring to ,but i confess that i'm anti-zionist .

Yes, of course, I have nothing against, but you can do it in another thread, OK? As I said, let this thread stay decent.

oh sorry ,i just wanted to see both versions on the same thread ,what i mean is ,that your argument is how jews and jewish heritage are acceptable in poland ,i wanted to see if there's a counterargument with strong evidence like yours .

in the end i hope you're true ,because people who are racist are ignorant and retroactive
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #23
lol ,i'm not anti-jewish if that's what you're referring to ,but i confess that i'm anti-zionist .

Oh, I see.

i just wanted to see both versions on the same thread

Yes, such a structure is tempting but I`d rather avoid the chaos which might erupt if we put everything here. Therefore, let`s keep this stuff seperated. No problem to do it in another thread.

i wanted to see if there's a counterargument with strong evidence like yours .

Yes, there is, although it is mostly anonymous.
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #24
Market traders are the same the world over, they will sell any sh1t people will buy,

So, how do you think, what kind of people buy this, as you said, shyt???



TheOther 5 | 3,683    
6 Aug 2013  #25
To follow your logic: why wasn't the museum built much earlier (e.g., right after WW2) then?
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #26
My answer is going to be another question (in Polish Jewish style): do you know in what condition Poland was after WW2? E.g., when did they finish the restoration of the Royal Castle in Warsaw????

E.g., when did they finish the restoration of the Royal Castle in Warsaw????

Russians who occupied Warsaw in 19 century left the castle alone. It was mad Germans who gradually razed it to the ground

1910

Warsaw, Poland

1939

Warsaw, Zamek-Krolewski-

1945

Warsaw-

Warsaw-

1970s

I hope you understand there were always other hotter needs than building the Museum of Polish Jews after WW2.

But less costly projects were realised after the war.

[quote=pawian]I hope you understand there were always other hotter needs than building the Museum of Polish Jews after WW2.ed Monument to Ghetto Heroes, in the district which used to be Jewish ( and during the war served as ghetto) and which Germans razed to the ground, literally made the whole area flat, leaving only that church with a tall tower for artillery fire observation.

The monument was one of the first constructions there in 1948

Later on the district was built all over with socialist blocks:

Socialist Poland

Celebrations of Ghetto Rising take place at the monument:

Warsaw Ghetto

German Chancellor Willy Brandt performed his famous kneel in front of it:

German Poland

and the Museum of Polish Jews is nearby:

Maldowina, Poland
yehudi 1 | 432    
6 Aug 2013  #27
still ,saying "anti-semitic " to people who hate jews isn't accurate ,also ,the hatred isn't towards the "jewish race" but to judaism as a religion .

The term is not accurate. I agree. I think it should just be called Anti-Jewish hatred.
I disagree with you about the hatred being just about the religion. The Nazis even took Jews who converted to Christianity and gassed them too. In Poland, Jewish communists were hated just as much as religious Jews, possibly more, even though they renounced their religion. When Wagner criticized the "Jewish influence" in music, he was talking about westernized assimilated Jews in Germany, not religious Jews.
McDouche 6 | 286    
6 Aug 2013  #28
Awesome thread Pawian. I love your logic. In the United States, we have Black History Month therefore nobody in America hates black people. :-\
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
6 Aug 2013  #29
In the United States, we have Black History Month therefore nobody in America hates black people. :-\

Come on, where did I write that all Poles love Jews????

This thread is an answer to fanatic Jews and their goy supporters who

see in Poles - all Poles - the most antisemitic nation in the world.

Awesome thread Pawian.

Thank you. Most of my threads are such.

In Poland, Jewish communists were hated just as much as religious Jews, possibly more, even though they renounced their religion.

That is how the myth about inborn Polish antisemitism sucked from mother`s breast is propagated today. After reading such a statement, one may only imagine that Poles organised regular pogroms of practically all kinds of Jews in Poland and no Jew was safe. "Holy shyt! Not only religious but also communist Jews were hated in Poland?"

Thanks, jehudi! :):)
Wlodzimierz 4 | 544    
6 Aug 2013  #30
Fact of the matter is, that the Poles probably were the LEAST "anti-Jewish" out of the entire Eastern Block (except perhaps for Bulgaria), referring here exclusively during WWII! I say this because unspeakable excesses notwithstanding, there was a large and well-organized Nazi resistance movement within wartime Poland, not to the same degree in the Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia or even Russia itself. There were of course more than mere pockets of resistance in those countries, yet Poland had a majority of her citizens, ordinary Poles, who were members of the Ruch Opór, who sacrificed valiantly for Poland. Wajda's film on the subject is considered authoritative, I believe:-)

I also completely left out the Baltic states, among them Lithuania which untill this day is a virtual graveyard for Jews to an extent Poland clearly isn't, let's just be fair for the record.

Poland's larger urban areas, including Cracow, (not only the capital) have a vibrant, if burgeoning, Jewish presence. In LIthuania, Latvia and Estonia, it's one heartbreaking abandoned site after another. Wilniuś used to be as vibrant a Jewish center as Cracow once was. Today? Poland at least has Jewish life vs. Jewish death!!

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