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Why is Poland weaker than Russia?


Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
6 Jan 2019  #91
In the first case the victor soon suffers too, in the second case the victor is flourishing.

22 trillion - and growing - of unpayable debt, 800 billion of trade deficit, unworkable mutual defense treaty obligations, the Latino sewer emptying itself out into the US will never register in anyone head is "flourishing" or even remotely connect with "victor".
TheOther 5 | 3,520    
6 Jan 2019  #92
And yet we are still considered the richest country on Earth. Tells you something about the state our planet is in.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
6 Jan 2019  #93
22 trillion - and growing - of unpayable debt,

Yeah...well...I personally draw the line at the end of the Sovietunion in 1989. After that the after war world order changed and the cards where reshuffled...
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
6 Jan 2019  #94
Kaliningrad Oblast.

The larger part of the former Eastern Prussia went to Poland and Lithuania and only smaller one to Russia.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  6 Jan 2019  #95
And yet we are still considered the richest country on Earth. Tells you something about the state our planet is in.

Just as every drunk thinks he is sober. Or, at the worst, "off-ficer, I I I only had a couppple of.."
Being in denial is often the only way to stay sane.

Our planet is fine. It's the moron American voters that are not.

Again, my apology for going sideways.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
6 Jan 2019  #96
Like ol' Adlai S. was quoted as saying nearly 60 years ago in his run for the White House, asked by a woman in the audience why every "thinking man and woman in America shouldn't vote" that time Senator Stevenson for President: "That's not enough madam, I need a majority!"

As I've always said, true back then, just as true now:-)
Ironside 47 | 9,123    
6 Jan 2019  #97
That's interesting. Could you describe in detail mechanism of this exploitation? And provide links to some trustworthy info?

Where do you think you are? On some scientific seminar exploring areas of interest? lol!
This is forum - you can tell your opinion and you can listen to other people views.

BY the way - why would I do your homework for you for free? I'll do it and you stop posting for three or four days to be back to the same lines as if nothing happened. I remember you from ATP so cut the crap.

------

Why don't you simply admit, Ironside, that your English is often faulty, full of GoogleTranslate, and needs work?

Dude my English is sufficient for this forum. I don't know what is your issue and I don't care. I just point out to you your the most outrageous and false periconception you post in here. I write in the same way in Polish. If I don't go over my post to check it. there are lots of linguistic and stylistic errors.

It is because I write here on the fly AH I don't use Google translate nor dictionary.

So what? Your English sounds as if it were your second language so don't be so sly.
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Soviet Union won WW2 and saved many American lives in Europe

hmm.. sucked up a lot of money and resources to protect Europe, and other places, not to mention that it cost a lot of American soldier life in Korea, Vietnam and other places.

To sum it up - your argument doesn't add up.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  6 Jan 2019  #98
not to mention that it cost a lot of American soldier life in Korea, Vietnam and other places.

Americans spent their lives there voluntarily and stupidly. No Russians or Soviets involved.
Europe could always protect itself with the American weapons. But they chose to hide behind the American butts. Even today.
Ironside 47 | 9,123    
6 Jan 2019  #99
It depends on what you mean as "a lot".

If you consider that without soviet union support for Hitler's German war plans the war could be avoided. Also you need to remember that up to 1941 Soviet Union was Hitler ally thus the Soviets are the one that should be paying compensation to Poland.

No Russians or Soviets involved.

Well if you know so for a fact, I'm not going to argue.
Spike31 1 | 438    
6 Jan 2019  #100
If you consider that without soviet union support for Hitler's German war plans the war could be avoided.

And that's where Viktor Suvorov's theory of The Icebreaker sounds very probable.

"Stalin used Nazi Germany as an "icebreaker" to start a war in Europe which would allow for the Soviet Union to come in, clean up, and take control of all of Europe"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov)

So according to this theory Stalin was ready for war but not for defensive war. He was ready for a military aggression on Europe. That a completely different military strategy which would explain huge initial red army losses when desperate Hitler mad a preemptive strike.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
6 Jan 2019  #101
In the case of Poland, the USSR forced the country into an unwanted 45 year economic alliance

Completely forced? And what would happen if Poland refused?
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
6 Jan 2019  #102
If by "Poland" you mean Polish citizens, then "Poland" could refuse to be in that alliance as much as the Americans can refuse to be in NAFTA - a blood draining creation by the ruling elites with a total (like zero) disregard for the ruled. I will always draw such parallels to show that this form of oppression is not exclusive to the bad -isms.

Poland in those days had its ruling class imported on the Soviet tanks.
The American ruling class didn't use the Soviet tanks but the outcome is the same - minus the gulags: nobody in the DC swamp gives a s*** what the masses think or want.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
7 Jan 2019  #103
Completely forced? And what would happen if Poland refused?

The same thing that would have happened to Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in 1968 when they were flirting with the idea of gently saying 'thanks, but no thanks!'

Don't you know 20th century history at all?
Spike31 1 | 438    
7 Jan 2019  #104
The same thing that would have happened to Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in 1968

True, but in Sep 1980 when Solidarity [10 million people strong] movement was formed Soviets were worried yet hesitant to react. They were still recovering from Soviet "Vietnam" that is war with Afganistan [1979] and they didn't want to get involved in central Europe. And they were also worried that Poles, unlike Czechs, will fight back.

They've also received a warning from Ronald Reagan that the US won't tolerate the Soviet aggression in Europe.

The commies in PZPR party has wasted a chance to end this because they were to scared of what will happen when the system collapses. Communists were genuinely scared that Poles will prosecute all of them so they declared a martial law [Dec 1981] to protect themselves from citizens and prepare a soft landing in post-communist Poland.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  7 Jan 2019  #105
Communists were genuinely scared that Poles will prosecute all of them so they declared a martial law [Dec 1981]

Again, bad Soviets, poor victims, my a**. It was the Jews and the Poles willingly and happily oppressing their own, not the Soviets. Haven't seen one solitary Soviet soldier in my entire life while there.

And, just for balance, that lame invasion of Cuba when the US fell out of love with Fidel. At least the Soviets were better at it. And with the WW2 losses somewhere near 40 million dead, justified in protecting their buffers.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
7 Jan 2019  #106
@Ironside, my English only sounds like a second language to someone whose first language isn't English, get real!!

Suffice to say, the reasons once again for Poland's weaker position than Russia is as much an issue of sheer size as anything else.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
7 Jan 2019  #107
I think it's because Poles are the most envious jealous mfers on the planet. Whereas other countries come together during a time of trouble, that's been impossible for Poles. It was that way during the Commonwealth, ww2 and it's like that today. Poles simply don't like to cooperate with each other even the nationalists. There's some dozens factions all pretending to support each other but really they're competing. Idk why Poles have such a tough time.with that...
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  7 Jan 2019  #108
I think it's because Poles are the most envious jealous mfers on the planet.

Spot on! Whatever I mentioned here as my recent and a very positive experience in Poland, it was met with the total disbelief and hostility and never with a "that was cool, man" which is so natural in "America". Here, even if one feels envy, it is obligatory and customary.

That old joke how in Hell, the Polish pot (?) has no devil deputies trying to keep the tortured Poles from escaping is so true. The explanation, of course, is that it's those inside that are doing this dirty job. That is why I don't want hear another load of s*** about how the USSR oppressed Poland. It was Poland who was oppressing Poland.
Spike31 1 | 438    
7 Jan 2019  #109
It was the Jews and the Poles willingly and happily oppressing their own, not the Soviets.

I'm not saying that the communist elites in Poland were Soviet per se, at least not after 1953. They were made of local communist Poles, and many of them were indeed Jewish like you said, who were scared of possible repercussions and punishment from common Poles in case of a collapse of the system.

Some of them should be named as traitors since they even wanted the Soviet intervention, and even encouraged it, just to save their position and their skin. The biggest mistake after 1989 was to treat them so lightly but that was a fruit fo a rotten political compromise.

And to be clear, Soviet forces - 66 000 soldiers strong at that time - were always present in Poland.
Vxcvxcvxc    
7 Jan 2019  #110
Lol how can you even say that? Just because a certain percentage of the communist party was am,de up of jews it means the jews did it. Conspiracy theorists all rejoice lol. Polak style jew mongering. Thats like saying what hitler wrote in mein kampf was true casue jews made germany lose ww1. Get tfu with that crap. In America minorities, not just jews but blacks, are so protected now, you have them being praised for beating up white people like you. Just go there and see., OR go on twitter and see how they are. You would not last in any country outside Poland esp usa with your attitude on jews or any minorities.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
7 Jan 2019  #111
And to be clear, Soviet forces - 66 000 soldiers strong at that time - were always present in Poland.

Present and invisible. The number I remember was 300,000 and the location was Legnica.

You would not last in any country outside Poland esp usa with your attitude on jews or any minorities.

I have lasted in the USA since 1967 with that attitude on Jews and the minorities without any problems. FYI, my first true love at 15 was a Jewish girl. As a manager, I hired three blacks - an engineer and two techs. That does not change the statistics or the widely-held opinions. Even blacks know that they are statistically no good and make every effort to move to the white 'hoods for safety and better schools, and are welcome as long as they act "white".

Just curious. How did you manage to survive anywhere with a name that has no vowels?
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
7 Jan 2019  #112
Up until today, NO Politburo head has been a Jew, convert or otherwise:-) Jews, leaders of Supreme Soviet?? Naah, I don't think so.

Even Germany has a better shot at having a Jewish head of state than either Russia or Poland.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
7 Jan 2019  #113
From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Public_Security_(Poland)

From Dossier of MBP directors in 1944-1954
Background Number Percent
Polish221 49.1%
Jewish167 37.1%
Soviet46 10.2%
Ukrainian5 1.1%
Belorussian4 0.9%
Russian1 0.2%
Other4 0.9%
Unlisted2 0.5%
Total (RBP / MBP)450 100%

And that's AFTER the Holocaust. Bold text is mine.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
7 Jan 2019  #114
That's not the same as saying that any of Putin's predecessors were Jews, is it? 'Course we know of Kaganovitch and numerous other Communist Party big wigs, the only Eastern European country among those in the Warsaw Pact aka Eastern Block Nations, with a Jewish head of state for at least a few years, was Hungary's Rakosi Matyas and he was a disgrace to his former religion.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  7 Jan 2019  #115
Plenty of Jews in the politburo especially out of the old bolshebiks trotsky, kamenev, kresnitsky along with Lenin who had jew blood. It wasn't till later on till stalin started purging them for their double cross (did he seriously expect they wouldn't?) after the Soviet Union helped Israel gain independence and immediately switched allegiance.

Fact is, Jews were overrepresented in Soviet government and today are overrepresented in many western governments especially the USA.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
7 Jan 2019  #116
Lenin's Jewish heritage is exceedingly distant, if at all. Rakosi on the other hand was a full-Jew whose physician father apparently was one of Kossuth Lajos' loyal supporters during the first war of independence in the mid-19th century:-)

True, many are indeed amply to be found in former Russian cabinets under the old Soviet Union, but of course, from Stalin to Putin, NO Kremlin chief has been Jewish.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  7 Jan 2019  #117
he was a disgrace to his former religion.

Whoever compiled that table in #113 above most likely identified "Jews" the same way they, the "Jews", identified themselves, or how would the author know it? Can you tell if I am Catholic or Jewish by just looking at me if it's a matter of religion? Of course not.

In that table, Jewish stand next to Polish, not Catholic. This means that these Jews did not see themselves as Poles. If that's the case, why were they there, with all that legendary antisemitism in Poland other than as opportunistic predators? I truly don't get it.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  7 Jan 2019  #118
Jews have always saw themselves as Jews and not Poles. It's no different today in other countries. Jews may live in us,Poland, Germany but they are first and foremost Jews. Jews in Poland preferred German culture and language to Polish. They were never keen on accepting Poles or the Polish state. That's why they allied with the bolsheviks and were a 5th column in the Polish Soviet war of the 20s and later sided with the soviets and took positions in government especially the security services which allowed them to murder, steal and imprison Poles at will. Many Poles who saved Jews during ww2 and ak members fighting against Nazis ended up killed by soviets and their local Jewish collaborators.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
7 Jan 2019  #119
Ahemm, Tuwim, Rozewicz, Brzechwa, Lesmian along with other Polish-Jewish of the assimilated Diaspora might take issue with your first statement, there Dirk ol' man.
Not every single Polish Jew was a shtettl-bound Yeshiva bruchar, some unwashed, illiterate bumpkin.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  7 Jan 2019  #120
Not every

Not every and not always arguments are pure strawman and not worthy of a serious response. You should know this before posting.



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