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Why is Poland weaker than Russia?


Ironside 47 | 9,123    
5 Jan 2019  #61
That are called EU-Laws, Iron...

Hey don't be skimming over my posts. If you would read it properly you would know I'm not talking about EU nationals. I'm talking about those from the outside of EU.

Don't let your Polish pride interfere with the truth.

Don't be an ass. Take some corrective action to remedy your ignorance of facts. Also don't let your ego in the way of truth. .

"Stooge" (szpieg) not "stodge", IronsideLOL Your English still needs plenty of work.

Are you sure about it. Think again, what I wanted to say.

Stop being a contrarian and admit that I'm rig

You're not. Russian economy was always somewhat of an oxymoron. Educate yourself. Hey and don't change the subject. You were not talking about landmass and the landmass alone doesn't gave any indication oft he economical output, at best it is only an indication of a potential.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
  5 Jan 2019  #62
Clinically, yes...also abit emotionally distant with the hindsight of nearly 100 years...but never cynically.

In this year we will mark 80 years as WWII begun. A largest war in known history that ended without any significant reparations to those countries that suffered most of all...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  5 Jan 2019  #63
I'm talking about those from the outside of EU.

How should I know? That would be new to me, do you have any links?

A largest war in known history that ended without any significant reparations to those countries that suffered most of all...

Well...if you are speaking about Russia, I respectfully disagree...Moscow helped itself to half of Europe to plunder for about 50 years. One hell of a reparation if you ask me!
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
5 Jan 2019  #64
Moscow helped itself to half of Europe to plunder for about 50 years.

This sentence doesn't seem to be correct grammatically. Who plundered whom for 50 years? Moscow sent trains with wheat to save Czechs from hunger and fed Germans in Berlin in 1945 when their own people starved. And what about Ukraine, Poland, Belarus?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  5 Jan 2019  #65
Yeah..well...that seems to be a matter of view point. But ask yourself that, why is that Soviet Empire dust now? Only mourned by very few people? Mostly Russians...
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
5 Jan 2019  #66
Interesting logic. So, citizens of USSR who suffered in WWII deserve no regret just for been citizens of "another empire"?
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  5 Jan 2019  #67
Some day somebody will explain to me what the US gained from the collapse of the USSR. If the answer is that we got rid of an enemy, then, why is the US feeding that monstrosity called China. Oh, I got it: because the minorities like $500 Nikes. Shoes to kill for. That's why.

I realize it's off the subject - at least partially.

After what the USSR went through during WW2, I wouldn't blame the Russians for anything they do today.

I wrote this because I need my next paycheck, according to some geniuses here, not because it makes sense.

I am so sorry. I meant $5000.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
5 Jan 2019  #68
I wouldn't blame the Russians for anything they do today

And what they do today?
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
5 Jan 2019  #69
Don't take "today" literally.
The Russia haters still can't get over Crimea and call it "annexation". Or that Russia is upset by the malignancy known as NATO - a tumor that never stops growing. Or what happened in Ukraine right at the Russia's doorstep.

I don't know when you joined this forum, so, fyi, I am known here as a Russian troll. I have no idea why and why that label is supposed to make me feel bad.
Ironside 47 | 9,123    
6 Jan 2019  #70
Moscow sent trains with wheat to save Czechs from hunger a

LOL ! They were humanitarians but misunderstood and wronged. Poor Soviets Samaritans the world is so ungrateful. LMAO!

Maybe in 50 years some moron will buy inti this crap you spew. Not now, not here and not today.

I am known here as a Russian troll. I have no idea why and why that label is supposed to make me feel bad.

So you are a proud of being called the Russian troll? Why? Aren't you an American? Do you hate your own country?
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  6 Jan 2019  #71
They were humanitarians but misunderstood and wronged. Poor Soviets Samaritans the world is so ungrateful. LMAO!

That debating technique of running to the end of the scale will get you nowhere. Every a-hole mother accused of abusing her kids does it with that stupid, "I never said I was a perfect parent". No s***.

So you are a proud of being called the Russian troll? Why? Aren't you an American? Do you hate your own country?

Same s*** here. I never said I was proud. I wrote "it didn't make me feel bad", paraphrasing.
Let me explain the difference between "proud" and "not feeling bad" by this example. Never mind...

Finally, why loving my country and liking Russia must be mutually exclusive? How about the US and Canada? At least the Russians liberated Poland and lost millions of their men in the process. What did Canada do for Poland?
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
6 Jan 2019  #72
LOL ! They were humanitarians but misunderstood and wronged. Poor Soviets Samaritans the world is so ungrateful. LMAO!

BB claimed that Moscow literally ROBBED HALF OF EUROPE for 50 YEARS. Do you think this is literally correct?
Ironside 47 | 9,123    
6 Jan 2019  #73
That debating technique of running to the end of the scale will get you nowhere

I'm only having a laugh. I don't need to debate every and each absurd someone puts out there.

hy loving my country and liking Russia must be mutually exclusive?

What Russia did for USA?

BB claimed that Moscow literally ROBBED HALF OF EUROPE for 50 YEARS. Do you think this is literally correct?

We are on the internet forum. People are emotional. If you take those two into equation it is easy to understand his hyperbole.

I read it - Moscow exploited half of the Europe for 50 years. Soviet's satellites were no much different than its colonies. That is the truth. So, I don't understand your annoyance.
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
6 Jan 2019  #74
That's interesting. Could you describe in detail mechanism of this exploitation? And provide links to some trustworthy info?
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
  6 Jan 2019  #75
What Russia did for USA?

Soviet Union won WW2 and saved many American lives in Europe just as the two nukes (I love them both equally) saved many American lives in Asia.
Lyzko 17 | 5,264    
6 Jan 2019  #76
Why don't you simply admit, Ironside, that your English is often faulty, full of GoogleTranslate, and needs work? You start admitting ignorance about certain areas, and I'll concede that I know more about Poland than about Russia:-)

What I stated though could easily be confirmed by any other member of this forum, that is, without a political ax to grind.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  6 Jan 2019  #77
BB claimed that Moscow literally ROBBED HALF OF EUROPE for 50 YEARS.

Not only literally:

...The net outflow of resources from eastern Europe to the Soviet Union was approximately $15 billion to $20 billion in the first decade after World War II...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Soviet_Union#Europe

That alone equals the aid from the US to western Europe under the Marshall plan...and the exploitation didn't end there.

And why are you so surprised?
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
  6 Jan 2019  #78
In any case Italy, Japan and Western Germany (which was larger part of entire Germany) hardly paid any reparations and you have to regard as good luck.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  6 Jan 2019  #79
Agreed...Both, Western Germany and Japan got lucky to fall into the US zone...and Italy (and Austria) too just played the victors to get out of it unscathed.

Poland on the other hand got punished twice...

But you agree now that Russians got lotsa reparations contrary to your former claim?
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
  6 Jan 2019  #80
It depends on what you mean as "a lot". In what amount you would estimate the total loses of USSR in WWII?

The net outflow of resources from eastern Europe to the Soviet Union was approximately $15 billion to $20 billion in the first decade after World War II...

This is interesting statement. But what about particular examples? Did he mean only Soviet Army war trophies? And someone needs to calculate money flows both ways during few decades. But I'm not too interested to do it.

I hope that 21 century will pass under sign of friendship and extended economic and political cooperation between Germany and nations of Eastern Europe.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  6 Jan 2019  #81
It depends on what you mean as "a lot".

Na ja....as the sources show the Sovietunion extracted during the first decade as much reparations from Central and Eastern Europe as the whole Marshall Plan put in.

And as we know that aid started the re-building and rise of western Europe to the most stable and wealthy region on Earth in its history.

The Sovietunion could have done the same with the amount they did take away. And again, that didn't end after 10 years. That exploitation of it's forced vassals got on in one way or the other till the downfall.

You said..I quote:

A largest war in known history that ended without any significant reparations to those countries that suffered most of all...

The contrary is true, the Russians made sure reparations were paid, an enormous amount of it...that was definitely "a lot"!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
6 Jan 2019  #82
sign of friendship and extended economic and political cooperation between Germany and nations of Eastern Europe.

Yeah...well...war is impossible now! :)
Vlad1234 10 | 352    
6 Jan 2019  #83
The contrary is true, the Russians made sure reparations were paid, an enormous amount of it...that was definitely "a lot"!

The source you provided claims Soviets took 15-20 billions of reparations. But this source estimates Soviet economic loses in 200 USD (in 1945 USD value). So, this is already an order of magnitude higher.

caseagainstbush.blogspot.com/2005/04/financial-cost-of-world-war-ii1u.html
Spike31 1 | 438    
6 Jan 2019  #84
Western Germany (which was larger part of entire Germany) hardly paid any reparations and you have to regard as good luck.

According to international law, crimes against humanity don't have expiration dates. They didn't pay before but there's some ways to press Germany to compensate for it now.

All in all by starting WWII they took a gamble: in case they won they would become masters of the whole Europe, its land, people and resources (I bet @BratwurstBoy is reading this sentence with a dreamy facial expression). Yet, they've lost and they have to suffer the consequences.

That said, Soviets have made a similar gamble with communist world revolution and also failed.

Vlad are you a Russian or a Soviet man?

Yeah...well...war is impossible now! :)

Since Germany is a traditional war initiator and judging by the state of Bundeswehr it truly is not possible now.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
6 Jan 2019  #85
Could you describe in detail mechanism of this exploitation?

In the case of Poland, the USSR forced the country into an unwanted 45 year economic alliance based on failed principles of socialism (not to mention all sorts of coercive economic facts - when meat was rationed to Polish citizens large amounts were being shipped to the USSR.

Poland still over 25 years has not fully recovered from the damage inflicted by forced Soviet style communism (the social costs are even worse....)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  6 Jan 2019  #86
They didn't pay before but there's some ways to press Germany to compensate for it now.

Poland is being compensated as we speak. The EU funds are financed in big parts with german money with Poland the biggest beneficiary...we are talking about Billions here..every year...

To rebuild Poland, to bring it up to western standard...the cohesion policy, european solidarity, the EU Marshall plan if you so want...the same you want to kick in the bin, believing Poland would be better off without it....ironic actually!

polska.pl/economy/investments-projects/eu-funds-poland

cohesion
/kə(ʊ)ˈhiːʒ(ə)n/
noun
noun: cohesion

the action or fact of forming a united whole.
"the work at present lacks cohesion"
synonyms:unity, togetherness, solidarity, bond, sticking together, continuity, coherence, connection, linkage, interrelatedness
"rewarding individuals breaks the cohesion in the group"

ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/policy/what/glossary/c/cohesion-fund
Spike31 1 | 438    
6 Jan 2019  #87
Poland is being compensated as we speak. The EU funds are financed in big parts with german money with Poland the biggest beneficiary..

The EU funds are only a compensation for unconditional opening the less developed and less competitive Polish market for the EU and German competition and export goods.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
6 Jan 2019  #88
All the "flow" talk is bs. If it is a measure of exploitation, the US is the single most exploited country on earth. The American wealth has been flowing to Europe and Asia since 1945 at a rate so unsustainable that it puts the country's long term survival into question.

The USSR behaved like a victor and took many things from Germany. Good. I only wish the Americans weren't as stupid as they are the way they always lose wars and never, ever benefit from them when they win - if ever.

Germany should be grateful the Soviets didn't claim part of it as its own forever.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  6 Jan 2019  #89
Erm, they more or less did.

But as with the Third Reich, that socialist system isn't sustainable...it was a matter of time. It isn't that it didn't want to hold on for forever, it couldn't anymore!

I only wish the Americans weren't as stupid as they are the way they always lose wars and never, ever benefit from them when they win - if ever.

Depends on what you see as winning!

The US has proven much smarter than the russian victors. The took away every valuable thing they could get their hands on, whereas the US invested money to help the losers to rebuild themselves.

In the first case the victor got itself to a now totally impoverished new region with an extremely hostile population which will chafe in their bounds forever and in the second case the victor soon ruled about a vassall whose happy population would fall over themselves to be a good ally and do what was asked of them.

In the first case the victor soon suffers too, in the second case the victor is flourishing.
TheOther 5 | 3,520    
6 Jan 2019  #90
Germany should be grateful the Soviets didn't claim part of it as its own forever.

Kaliningrad Oblast.



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