rationality and IQ versus dogmas about Russia that are needed to support Russian Mir
Every country has its mythology.
What about the Holiest Rzeczpospolita, Christ of Nations, Golden Liberty etc. etc. - would you call all that an "exercise in futility"? Soul of a nation is not to be mocked, even if logically we realise all the flaws and historical inaccuracies.
2) Kulik behaving as a dog, and pissing on journalists.
3) "Voyna" art collective's giant cock spray painted on drawbridge in front of FSB offices.
4) Nadia Tolokonnikova (Pussy Riot leader) and colleagues, in a performance titled "F*ck for the Teddy Bear's Heir" (Medvedev's last name means "of the bear"). The performance was in response to Putin and Medvedev constantly complaining about Russia's poor demographic statistics. The pregnant artist participated in this staged orgy, to show they are ready to make babies for the Fuhrer.
It is not about mythology or current narration. It is about dogmas, those dogmas are fundament of the Russian Mir, take one out and whole structures collapses, Russian civilization would be done and the country would roll itself up like a carpet. Take Poland and our mythology, we can change it play with it like with puzzles, build it in one or other others way. It flexible, because our civilization is culturally rich and is build on the solid base values. Russian Mir is based only on one value that is not that advanced the worst regime is better than chaos. Russian don't have anything in between and nothing to fall back to. -------
Soul of a nation
There is no soul of the nation, there very inteligent and educated people who are thorn between reason on one side, and dogmas on the other that demand either cynicism or belief. That need to chose, invokes so called Russian soul. Which is nothing less than selling out one's soul for the sense of belonging and being in tune with Mother Russia i.e. Russian Mir. ---
400 ml of vodka, inside an old suv moving between fishing sites
Exchange fishing for hunting and you've just described my dream holidays. Substract vodka and that's actually how some of my childhood holidays looked like... FSC Lublin, an old UAZ (later when Poland was getting richer, it was exchanged for Lada Niva), hunting, food from cans and hunter's bigos. Aaah, they halcyon days of youth.
Steven Segal
Not a fan but I enjoyed a couple of his movies. And Sharon Stone was one of my first sexual experiences in the 90s (of course she couldn't have known that).
Damn it... I am a hopeless Putin voter. Kurwa... 0_0
That is sad degeneracy.
He,he - see, Bobko, Iron is old rezerwa as well; he would vote for Putin too. xD
I would build re-education camps for such artists and their fans, where the walls of their barracks would be full of paintings in the tradition of Dutch masters, Pre-Raphaelites, Victorians, the Quattrocento and such, the speakers would blast Chopin at full volume, and they would have to read carefully (there'd be exams) selected 19th and early 20th century novels.
If, after 6 months in such camp, they still thought nailing their nutsacks to the street is a form of art - penal minesweeper battalion.
If yes - then it is art.
My daughter has exactly the same approach to art and she is equally annoyed by my caveman approach to the issue. She even got me a popular guide to contemporary art, and I even read it. Still not conviced.
For me art, apart from speaking to you, must involve some skill on a level that is very difficult to achieve. Not everyone can write like Tolstoy and not everyone can paint like Botticelli - so, they were artists. Why did we call Diego Maradona an artist of football but we would be rather reluctant to use the same term when talking about Harry Maguire or James Milner?
Nailing your nutsack to the street involves lack of shame and resistance to pain, but does it involve any high-level skill? If not, then I don't think it should be called art.
I take it you've not seen how Poles drive. Most of them pissed as well. The roads here are full of Darwin Award candidates thankfully ridding the universe of their knuckleheaded selves. Darek drinks 10 mocne piwos / wodkas, Darek gets behind the wheel of his financed German vehicle, Darek hits a pole/tree at high speed, night night for Darek
you understand the picture and definitely understand colonialism.
I do. It's a pity though that your experiences and the history of your country clearly didn't teach you anything.
The crazy Soviet political system collapsed leaving another crazy political system to dominate the world
Sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean democracy? lol
most other peoples harbor some kind of secret doubt. Not so in Russia, or America, or China
Nonsense. Many countries have had periods of nationalism taking over in their history. And American society isn't a monolith.
Yakhina ("Zuleikha Opens Her Eyes").
Out of curiosity - are there any Russian female writers and poets that made it to the obligatory reading material at school or are part of the literary canon (or are simply well known in RuSSia)? I personally only know about Anna Akhmatova. Are her works part of curriculum at RuSSian schools these days? 🤔
Out of curiosity - are there any Russian female writers and poets that made it to..
CMS mentioned Tsvetaeva - she is definitely part of the school curriculum.
But bigger than her even, and bigger than many very important male writers - is Anna Akhmatova. She's a giant. Her life is just as tragic as Tsvetaeva's.
Agniya Barto is a must read in elementary school and kindergarten.
No idea if she is studied in North Nigerian schools
She is.
Also, you have to stop being racist towards Nigerians.
I would have understood if you wrote to me from Luxembourg or Monaco - but writing from Poland about Nigeria as euphemism for dysfunction is not good.
must involve some skill on a level that is very difficult to achieve
Everyone I mentioned is a super accomplished artist. If they wanted to - they could make art which would "please" you.
Just because Picasso didn't want to paint pictures like Goya or Raphael, does not mean that Picasso did not have the ability. Same for Dali - he could do anything he wanted to - he just did what he did instead.
The caliber of talent among these people is not in question. It's just not possible to send any kind of message now, doing old, tired stuff - and it's boring. So Russian artists, like other artists, just do what is fun.
Not everyone can write like Tolstoy and not everyone can paint like Botticelli - so, they..
But a lot of people CAN write like Tolstoy or paint like Botticelli....
There are 8 billion of us. There are dozens of Tolstoys, and dozens of Botticellis.
It's just that if you begin to write like Tolstoy - now, in the 21st century - people will laugh you out of the house. "Who are you, to write like Count Tolstoy?", "What did you live?", "Shut up and go back to your hiding hole!". That's the response.
The historical distance allows us now to worship Tolstoy, but if he lived now we would kill him.
Same for Botticelli - who can paint like that now and get taken seriously?
You need to speak new things. Do new things. Try to move humanity forward.
This is why people are sewing their mouths shut, or cutting off their ears, or nailing their scrotums to pavement. This is art - Kania!
Basically - I think that a lot of you have spent the last 5 years calling Russians cowards, slaves, etc.... but don't understand anything about the war inside Russia.
If they wanted to - they could make art which would "please" you.
Proof. I want proof.
Dali and Picasso were academically trained and demonstrated strong classical technical ability before they went their way. It's one thing to depart from traditional art and search for something new, and another to go full retard before proving yourself in classical art (or even craftsmanship). What did the scrotum guy do before his famous performance? Show me. Then I shall decide if he is allowed to nail his ballsack to the street.
It's just not possible to send any kind of message now, doing old, tired stuff
Oh, yeah? Explain Szymborska then or Seamus Heaney, or even Kazuo Ishiguro - all relatively recent Nobel Prize winners in literature, all relying clearly on accessible, classical-leaning poetry or prose, clarity and controlled form. I'm not buying this "old, tired stuff" nonsense.
But a lot of people CAN write like Tolstoy or paint like Botticelli...
No.
Perhaps a lot of people can IMITATE Tolstoy or Botticelli, but writing and painting like them is not the same thing, is it? Actually, your scrotum idol is doing just that - imitating Duchamp, Burden or Marina Abramović. F*ck that. If that is "moving humanity forward" then I say FULL REVERSE!
don't understand anything about the war inside Russia
Oh, how I wish I could understand Russia! This country haunts and persecutes me.
the history of your country clearly didn't teach you anything.
With respect I think you are missing the point. The Soviets provided a counter and to a large degree a brake on capitalism, basically humanising it and allowing it to be presented as acceptable. It's not about democracy which is a moveable feast and like populism difficult to define.
The world is very dangerous at the moment because there is no counter to the unipolar world which is visibly dying. That's the point I was making.
All of them, even Pussy Riot wh*res, are graduates of the top Russian art academies - that are often much harder to get into than even Harvard or Tsinghua University (kinda like our ballet schools).
To ask me to find proof from their earlier work, demands some level of Googling and poking around - I'll try to do this in the next couple days.
Explain Szymborska then or Seamus Heaney, or even Kazuo Ishiguro
How many young persons around the world are currently inspired by Szymborska, Heaney, or Ishiguro? For better or worse, Russian artists have a larger media profile.
Perhaps only because they come from the "wild, war-ridden East" - but nonetheless, in my NYC circles everyone is more or less familiar with them. Not sure if people are as familiar with the ones you had listed.
writing and painting like them is not the same thing, is it?
You ask questions which I would be a fool to try to answer. I don't know what to tell you.... "Yes?".
This is one of the harder questions. I don't know.
Actually, your scrotum idol is doing just that - imitating Duchamp, Burden or Marina Abramović.
But I respect Duchamp, and Burden, and even Abramovic.
Are they as important as Raphael, or Titian, or Michelangelo, or as the Dutch Masters - probably not.
Are they even as important as Matisse, Gauguin, Kandinsky, Chagall - also probably not.
But they are doing something which hundreds of millions of people, or even billions have engaged with. They are hugely important artists.
@cms neuf, thanks for reminding me about Marina Tsvetaeva - I knew that there was a female poet who had it really bad with the Stalinist regime (she came up during my discussions with Russians) and I knew it wasn't Akhmatova, but I couldn't remember her name...
Fun fact, Tsvetaeva had some Polish roots and she was related to a Polish Catholic saint, Urszula Ledóchowska.
@Bobko, do you know perhaps which of Tsvetaeva's poems are part of curriculum in RuSSian schools these days?
She's a giant.
Cool 😎
With respect I think you are missing the point.
Nope. My point is that the point you are making shows that you're a callous person.
The Soviets provided a counter and to a large degree a brake on capitalism, basically humanising it
Such a pity that those Soviets weren't humane themselves, right?
The world is very dangerous at the moment
I'm sure during the Cold War kids hiding under desks during nuclear attack drills also thought that they were living in a very dangerous world lol 🤦
With respect, Barney, I think you're an idiot and a callous one at that. No wonder you seem to be taking the side of RuSSia and the Soviet Union - you share their lack of understanding and empathy for others.
@Barney, try not to see the world in gray only when it suits you or your political agenda. It will make you less of a hypocrite and a better human being.
Pussy Riot wh*res
Shut the f*ck up. They have balls of steel and a spine that you will never have, even after having a transplant.
How many young persons around the world are currently inspired by Szymborska
I'm not super crazy into poetry, I prefer prose, but I actually love Szymborska.
Russian artists have a larger media profile.
Of course, that's how it is with the "big/ famous/important" countries - you could say the same about British, French, German or even American literature.
graduates of the top Russian art academies - that are often much harder to get into than even Harvard
I've got to say that I've noticed long ago when looking through international art sites that Russian/RuSSian digital artists must've had great academic/classical art training. 🤔
It's just not possible to send any kind of message now, doing old, tired stuff
That's not true though... Banksy does manage that on regular basis. Of course, street art is modern art, but he employs traditional, "depictive art" to send his messages. 🤔 And lately - pretty "traditional" sculpture of his did send quite a message, imho.
@Paulina I don't see any hypocrisy in my posts because there is none.
I suppose you are more than capable of explaining why any given post is definitely a positive sign for your interpretation of the world but it would be exhausting to read.
There is. You also see the world only in black and white - but only when it suits you or your political agenda.
why any given post is definitely a positive sign for your interpretation of the world
What is that even supposed to mean?
it would be exhausting to read.
I could explain it to you why I think you're a callous, hypocritical idiot, but explaining such basics to an adult would be exhausting and, probably, futile. If you don't get it by now at your age then it's possible you never will. I'm sure you went to school, right? Didn't you learn what the Soviet Union did to people and other countries, including Poland? You must've have. So what am I supposed to explain to you? How to be a normal, good human being? Am I supposed to teach you empathy?
I've tried that with RuSSians for 7 years and I'm tired already. And those RuSSians, at least in theory, had the excuse of being brainwashed about their history for decades. You don't have that excuse. So go f*ck yourself.
How many young persons around the world are currently inspired by Szymborska, Heaney, or Ishiguro?
Quite a few I'd say. Apart from millions of readers worldwide there are Polish and English philology students every year who choose those writers' work for their masters and doctoral theses every year; and it's not only the three I mentioned - in general traditional approach to literary craft, with formal craftsmanship and strong continuity with earlier poetry/prose is still valued very highly. Some people tend to think that form enslaves and limits whilst it's exactly the opposite. Would you rather listen to Chopin or to someone randomly banging on piano keys in the name of rejecting form? And I mean, even if everyone from the exalted NYC circles that you move in preferred the latter?
This is one of the harder questions.
Is it? I was talking about imitating somebody's style versus actually creating art of equal value to that of the person being imitated. For instance, if I tried, I could probably write a paragraph or two in Vladimir Sorokin's style. But could I tell a story the way he can? Could I write a novel like Sorokin and achieve equal success? Unfortunately, I know the answer to both questions. He is an artist; I am not.
.. and while we're on the topic of imitation: what if one million people worldwide nailed their scrotums to the pavement? Would we suddenly have one million new top-class artists? If we answer this question in the affirmative, then I suppose those million people could follow in Piero Manzoni's footsteps and start putting their sh*t in cans and selling it for exorbitant prices. Imagine this: millions and millions of Merda d'artista cans flooding Sotheby's, Christie's and Bonhams!
Also, what matters in art, apart from form, is subject matter. What kind of person would argue that the subject matter of Oleg Kulik pissing on journalists (whatever that subject matter may actually be) is equally important to that of Sandro Botticelli's The Annunciation or your Tajik master's Orthodox icons? Probably not even blasés NYC socialites. I say 'probably' because the sad degeneracy that Iron mentioned is, regrettably, quite real.
You mentioned that Vladimir Putin seems to share a similarly "caveman-like" approach to art with Iron and me. Perhaps this is not necessarily a matter of his personal taste, but rather the result of something he understands about the relationship between art, civilisation, internal coherence, and moral integrity. Maybe he understands what happens to societies that "bravely" reject traditional forms and values. Maybe, just maybe, he witnessed with his own eyes what moral degeneracy and bravely transgressing everything there is to transgress can do to a society and decided to push back against it.
