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Tuchola in Poland - roots of Katyn?


OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
7 Jan 2011  #121
I think you summed it up quite well, since Bolshevism was a disease that was highly destructive, and as such its elimination was of benefit to humankind. I think that most people would be in agreement.

After all the life of a Polish entrepreneur/capitalist(a creator of wealth), would have been far more valuable than the life of a bolshevik parasite, who tired to steal the wealth created by another man.

It is your point of view Mr. Hague's Cameroon! And I see neither parasite nor disease in Bolsheviks. It was eruption of anger. Apart from some minor atrocities, the idea of communism is not that bad.

Where did you see any entrepreneurs in Poland? Backward, mostly Agricultural state full of landlords and nobility.
AussieSheila 5 | 75
7 Jan 2011  #122
Just saw WW 2 documentary on SBS channel, it made me so angry to see German planes bombing the **** outta Warsaw with no one to fight them back while Hitler and his Generals watched from a safe distance. If I were Polish I'd kill every German I've met.
wildrover 98 | 4,452
7 Jan 2011  #123
What about the Australians in the Royal Air Force that bombed Berlin , Dresden etc...would you kill them too...?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
7 Jan 2011  #124
I have seen the same documentary, but that wasn't what got me angry. The German propaganda about Poles charging tanks did-since this just wasn't the case.

Anyhow with a depleted air force you cannot respond in kind.

It is your point of view Mr. Hague's Cameroon! And I see neither parasite nor disease in Bolsheviks. It was eruption of anger. Apart from some minor atrocities, the idea of communism is not that bad.

You see that is the difference between Poles and Russians, completely different values.
East is east and West is West and never the twain shall meet....

It is your point of view

This is for you Costi


OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
7 Jan 2011  #125
This is for you Costi

Ah, perfect example of Polish propaganda, something like Motejko's "art" pieces. I fail to understand one truth, why you need independence? Few decades will go away and you will sell it again (at least the part of your government).
Torq 26 | 2,363
7 Jan 2011  #126
Motejko

Who's Motejko?

Anyway - you lost the war in 1920. We pretty much owned you like bit*ches and we would
have done the same in 1939 if it wasn't for the help of your big buddy Hitler...
... he, he :-)

So, you lost in 1920 - now get over it.

why you need independence? Few decades will go away and you will sell it again (at least
the part of your government).

I'm afraid our dear Slavic brother may be right here. I wouldn't pay a broken penny
for the current government's honesty and patriotism.
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
7 Jan 2011  #127
Who's Motejko?

Sorry, I meant Jan Alojzy Matejko

.....and I like Subjunctive Mood
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
7 Jan 2011  #128
Ah, perfect example of Polish propaganda, something like Motejko's "art" pieces.

Good question, probably because we do not like to be governed by people less intelligent than ourselves.

Jan Alojzy Matejko

would this be the reason why?

Hołd Ruski
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
7 Jan 2011  #129
would this be the reason why?

I like his other pieces more

1. en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rejtan_(painting)&action=e dit&redlink=1

2 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stańczyk_(painting)

These pintings disclose Polish character more.
Torq 26 | 2,363
8 Jan 2011  #130
These pintings disclose Polish character more.

Why are you being such an arsehole, Constantine? Don't you read newspapers?
Don't you watch TV? It's time of Polish-Russian reconcilliation and how are you acting, eh?

Not good, grazhdanin Constantine. Not good.
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
8 Jan 2011  #131
Because Poles our cousins and nothing can afford the same delight than to have a chance of scratching sores of our relatives...

BTW, I am impatiently waiting when "reconciliation" will be changed on "incorporation".
Ironside 47 | 9,624
8 Jan 2011  #132
Why are you being such an arsehole, Constantine?

Its simple Torq, he like it !He enjoys it really!
:D
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
8 Jan 2011  #133
BTW, I am impatiently waiting when "reconciliation" will be changed on "incorporation".

Would that be the incorporation of Russian into western civil norms, such as the rule of law, innocence before guilt, democratic elections etc. As opposed to the present very aptly described

by some diplomats 'mafia sate'?

Tell me Costi have you ever been wronged by your local government or administration in any way. Who do you turn to in Russia for justice? Or are most Russians simply resigned to living in a lawless state in which the mafia does what it likes?
Torq 26 | 2,363
8 Jan 2011  #134
Because Poles our cousins and nothing can afford the same delight than to have a chance of scratching sores of our relatives...

Hmm... fair enough, I guess.

BTW, I am impatiently waiting when "reconciliation" will be changed on "incorporation".

You can try, but I'm afraid we can be a very heavy, or in fact indigestible meal for you :)

'mafia sate'

Oh, come on! 'Mafia state' is such a nasty description. Let's just say, 'a state with a very
creative approach to the issues of freedom and citizens' laws'. :)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
8 Jan 2011  #135
Sadly, Poland can't talk about this as if she's a saint either.

The rule of law in Poland is incredibly twisted at times, and innocence before guilt? In a country which doesn't try people by a jury of their peers? Let's not forget the abuse of institutions by political parties too.

Russia is more extreme, sure - but we saw very similar, creepy parallels between United Russia and PiS.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
8 Jan 2011  #136
Sadly, Poland can't talk about this as if she's a saint either.

There is no comparison, besides Poland is going i the right direction, and for the most part the parties abide by the law-except for PIS which was an aberration.

As for trial by Jury that is a common law invention-In Poland it is the experts who decide, like in the Netherlands for instance, and many other European countries that do not abide by common law traditions. It is a perfectly satisfactory system.

In addition to this, unlike Russia, Poland has a history of civil rights to draw upon.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
8 Jan 2011  #137
It is a perfectly satisfactory system.

The problem is that the same system produces some absolutely bizzare judgements in Poland - everyone here knows that the court system is unreliable for actually delivering justice.

In addition to this, unlike Russia, Poland has a history of civil rights to draw upon.

Not in anyone's memories, though.
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
8 Jan 2011  #138
You can try, but I'm afraid we can be a very heavy, or in fact indigestible meal for you :)

Oh, let me explain myself boy. Certainly, there will be no any direct invasion; after all we have XX1 century on the yard.

But sooner or later, perhaps sooner I think, your present patron - US - will not be able to support you. Seeing this, your political elite will be searching for sponsors. And here we are, your old friends - uncle Germany and aunt Russia!

You can oppose that it is better for Poland to be with more prosperous Germany, you have a right! But I am sure that we shall find some members of elite who will be eager for "reconciliation" - let's name this so - with Russia.

And here is the open road for rivalry between Russia and Germany over Poland, in short, who will have an upper hand in Poland affairs.

Then, everything become easy. Rivalry means partition, partition means that Poland will cease to exist. The curtain drops!
Torq 26 | 2,363
8 Jan 2011  #139
(...)

Your oversimplified prediction of Poland's future is truly lamentable. I guess I could come up
with a similar scenario for Russia's future (involving muslims, China, the dying out of white
Russian Slavs and huge growth rate of non-Slavic population etc. etc.), but I just couldn't
be arsed really. You seem to have a HUGE chip on your shoulder and it looks like you're not
going to get rid of it anytime soon. You know that old saying:
"Don't try to teach a pig how to fly. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

I promise I won't try to teach you how to fly anymore, Constantine.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
8 Jan 2011  #140
The problem is that the same system produces some absolutely bizzare judgements in Poland - everyone here knows that the court system is unreliable for actually delivering justice.

Indeed, and I am sure the same sentiment is shared in countless other countries, it is not perfect but it is not too bad.

Not in anyone's memories, though.

I am not sure which memories you subscribe to.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
8 Jan 2011  #141
Your oversimplified prediction of Poland's future is truly lamentable.

Surely the only sensible prediction of Poland's future is of a not-quite-at-the-top-table EU power, where she regionally dominates and plays a role similar to Spain or Italy today, combined with supporting German policy within the EU?
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
8 Jan 2011  #143
Torque, Cameroon, Dofin'sAbdomen, my dear! Believe me or not, but I like Poland very much and wish it to be prosperous state. However I want to warn you against your own government and it's allies in Washington. Why you should alway be an obstacle on Russia's way? Just think about this. Look at Finland, it is a good pattern for you own behavior. Instead you own gov constantly involves you into risky enterprises further and further.

If you have some skills in Russian, read inosmi.ru, there in readers' comments you will see what Russians think about Poland, Polish gov and other Polish now. You only exacerbate this opinion.

Polish audience feeds only by rumors about Russia while we, Russians, are reading you real newspapers and all laughable notions presented in this papers.
Torq 26 | 2,363
8 Jan 2011  #144
Believe me or not, but I like Poland very much and wish it to be prosperous state.

I'm not impressed. I like Russia much more than you like Poland, Constantine.
I have REAL Russian friends (in Klin, Moskovskaya Oblast), I speak some Russian,
and I read a lot of books about Russia's history and society (recently: Mikołaj
Bierdiajew "Rosyjska idea", Andrzej Wróblewski "Przejażdżka po Rosji" and "Pandrioszka"
by Krystyna Kurczab-Redlich.) I also listen to Ljube music every now and again
and "Wyspa" with Pyotr Mamonov and Viktor Sukhorukov is one of my favourite movies.
Oh, I almost forgot - I watched Shtrafbat and liked it too.

How many books about Poland did you read recently? How many Polish movies did you watch?

So? Answer yourself this question - are you a bigger friend of Poland or am I a bigger friend
of Russia? The answer is, I think, quite obvious.

Why you should alway be an obstacle on Russia's way?

Instead you own gov constantly involves you into risky enterprises further and further.

What are you even talking about? Some examples maybe?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
9 Jan 2011  #145
Polish audience feeds only by rumors about Russia while we, Russians, are reading you real newspapers and all laughable notions presented in this papers.

But you see Costi, In Poland we have a free media which tries to be accurate and objective, whilst your countrymen are brainwashed by your state dominated media, which only reports what the government wants it to. If they not they get killed like Politovskaya.

So why should i bother myself with reading badly informed Russian opinion, when the Polish opinion of Russia is far more accurate?

Instead of wasting your time on this thread, you should subscribe to to some pro democracy forum to liberate Russia from its current semi dictatorial status. Just be careful when you hear a knock on the door in the dead of night(:

A far more relevant question is, what is the Russian opinion of China and vice versa.
Ironside 47 | 9,624
9 Jan 2011  #146
Why you should alway be an obstacle on Russia's way?

What way ? I think it is a very good question.
You can alway talk with US.
Ah? You already do:)

The curtain drops!

*On the other hand there is China !

Seriously, problem is that Russia has no proposition for Poland, not proposition which is attractive enough, hell,let be frank here the only proposition Russia have for Poland is - be our ***** and we'll treat you nice (maybe) or else!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
9 Jan 2011  #147
*On the other hand there is China !

I wonder if Costi has ever heard th Polish joke:

Why do Poles pray for a Chinese invasion?

answer: because they will march through Russia twice!
OP ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
9 Jan 2011  #148
How many books about Poland did you read recently? How many Polish movies did you watch?

Shame on me, I can remember none. But you should forgive me this uncouthness, since it is quite common among imperialistic nations to have only shallow comprehension of their neighbors. We are too absorbed with our own culture or how it is reflected among other, by the way of thinking, nations.

But you see Costi, In Poland we have a free media which tries to be accurate and objective, whilst your countrymen are brainwashed by your state dominated media, which only reports what the government wants it to. If they not they get killed like Politovskaya.

:) You are amusing!

1) Why do you think that you have free media? Somebody told you this?
2) Why do you think that Russia dose not have the same? In your denying I see only arrogance and the result of the same brainwashing. It is your media is constantly working with you.

4) Do you really think that it was Putin who killed, directly or indirectly, Politkovskaya or Litvinenko? My God, in this case you brain is so blank that even you media can do nothing with it. I can advise only one thing, just think who is in profit! Certainly it is not kremlin.

A far more relevant question is, what is the Russian opinion of China and vice versa.

OMG! Please stop talking about China, this phantasmal threat invented in Washington. Please tell me why the should wage war against Russia? What for? Over millions kilometers of permanently frozen soil? Do you think they are idiots? They already have many kilometers of deserted lands, and you think they need more?

They have big problems, God bless America, with their own Tibetan population, so you think that they need full scale atomic war as appendage? I don't think so.

Now China have faced with urbanization process and this social phenomenon hides many dangers itself. Few of them:

- Low birth rates. Can you imagine millions and millions of aged? Believe me, this will require some money
- Decrease of rural population. Therefore they will face significant lack of labour resources in the further 30-40 years
- Flourishing cities. Something tells me that prosperous bank clerks is not a good stuff for army.

Other reasons:
- China is surrounded by envious enemies, God bless America once again
- Do you remember at least one war where China have been victorious by itself? Can you help me to deal with it?

Well, now let's analyze other highly hypothetical threats, Muslim population in Russia for example, another favorite danger of all who "cares" about Russian future. Should I do this?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
9 Jan 2011  #149
stop talking about China, this phantasmal threat invented in Washington.

There are about 1.4 billion Chinese on Russians southern border. In 15-20 years, they and the stupid internationalists will demand that Russia is too thinly populated and should give up land to the Chinese. This will occur after previous Chinese demands on the world currency. At that point, the U.S. and the Russians might want to solidify a serious partnership.
Torq 26 | 2,363
9 Jan 2011  #150
Well, now let's analyze other highly hypothetical threats, Muslim population in Russia for
example, another favorite danger of all who "cares" about Russian future. Should I do
this?

Sure. It should be interesting to hear your analysis, Constantine. You may be an arsehole,
but some of the things you say are quite interesting. I'm listening.


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