The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 626

Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?


Vox - | 175
19 Mar 2015 #391
All of those have sadly been seen among the Jewish population of Poland

You still haven't addressed my questions.
Regardless here is another one:
You are very quick to single out or point out the Jewish population in Poland. Wouldn't that make you some kind of a brown shirt racist according to your standards?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
19 Mar 2015 #392
That is what was done in the 1930s Poland, nothing more, nothing less.

That was what was done in Hitler's Germany (apart from the Zionism nonsense). Poland is much better than that, which you would know if you lived here. Your brand of Jew-hating is very much a minority view these days. I politely suggest that you return to Poland and experience life here for yourself. You seem to have lost any sense of what your country (as you claim it to be) is about. You feel a foreigner in the UK, so come back to the motherland and help rebuild her. Too many of your peers have left for Britain; show them what a true patriot is.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #393
as i sai dbefore Oppression is when there are dead people on the streets, what the state did is punished the wealthy people that cosnpired against other wealthy people in an unjust fusion of ionterests to get rid of the competition... the state didnt care if they would be Jews (They were still Poles afterall werent they???), the state used its contitution-given powers to get rid of thieves and banksters.

I am not denying that there wasnt antisemitism on the streets and on a more social level, but..
a) this trend was everywhere in America and in Europe.
b) as i said, if a certain group of people consipre to get rid of the the bussiness opposition just because they are not part of that group then what kind of reaction do you expect.. also, Jews in towns and villages didnt want to integrate into the Polish society which alienated them, also the rise of Zionism alieneted them even more so, they began to see themselves more as Jews than as Poles and thus the other part of the population reacted accordingly.

In the Polish case of so called "Anti-Semitism" both sides are found guilty, both Poles and Jews alike were not innocent, even more so let me repeat in the Polish case, for every action of the Jewish nationalists- Zionists there was a reaction, and because they were the minority the reaction seemed harsher for an example student unions bench basns were passed because the majority of the tuedents were Poles.. but id like to know the reasons for this and many other actions.

Also Polish nationalism and therefore a degree of anti-semitism which was in honesty a fear of the Zionists which were quite popular among the general Jewish population, cannot be compared with the brownshirts, or the NSDAP as a whole such comparesment is only made by people that 0 knowledge of the topic, people like you Jon.

Let me give you an example, NSDAP preached that all jews should be removed and destroyed right?
Do you know what the Polish National Democrats believed that should be done??? They claimed that Jews should integrated, one of the ore popular ideas is that Poles should intermarry with them and then convert the children from these marriages to Catholicism.. do you see the difference???

It was not a racist attitude since Poles believed that jews are Poles, because they were, they were Poles of a Jewish nationality or something like that, it was simply a matter of an internal disagreement. There was no "Elders of the zion" publications like in Germany that the Nazis published en masse in a bid to alienate the Jews from the Germans to then carry out their sick atrocities.

Poland was simply the other way around, it was the Jews that have alienated Themselves from the Poles, Poles always wanted them to be integrated and fully and Equally functional members of the society.
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #394
One thing historians must do is to remember what people either made up or forgotten.

Who said that?
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #395
There was no "Elders of the zion" publications like in Germany that the Nazis published en masse in a bid to alienate the Jews from the Germans to then carry out their sick atrocities.

I wonder if you think that tawdry document originated in Germany or had appeared in other places first...
Anyway, it would be interesting to know what your plans are and by what methods you think:

these people should be punished.

goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #396
I wonder if you think that tawdry document originated in Germany or had appeared in other places first...

ofc i know where it came from but i dont see whats the point of knowing where it originated from ???
My point was thatGermany allowed a spread of this Russian backed propaganda piece.
Lyzko 29 | 7,238
19 Mar 2015 #397
TheOther, I was only being sarcastic:-) For a minute though, I thought this was gonna be another "The Jews were responsible for their own fate..!" type deal, sorry!
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #398
ofc i know where it came from but i dont see whats the point of knowing where it originated from ???
My point was thatGermany allowed a spread of this Russian backed propaganda piece.

Somehow I doubt you're up to scratch on its history and route to Germany, however that's very much going off topic. The depressing but interesting thing is how you propose the Jews:

should be punished

and whether or not you really think that:

anythign from Agora S.A is part of their propagand

goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #399
is how you propose the Jews:

I propose that a significant proportion of these people, especially the ones that were quite rich were Zionists not interested in integration, its simply a matter of fact.

anythign from Agora S.A is part of their propagand

are you trying to imply that ai have said that they ( are the jews??) how about u stop being an idiot for starters i meant the Commies/leftists you name it!

how about you stop taking words out of context, your opinions are l;aughable and simply ignorant mate, time to read up on History i think!

//i am reporting your post for idiotic misrepresentation of my posts and taking stuff out of context
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #400
time to read up on History i think!

Qu'est-ce qu'une nation? by Ernest Renan

A nation is "a daily referendum" [...] nations are based as much on what the people jointly forget, as what they remember.
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #401
That isn't in any way an answer to the simple question that arises from your statement relating to the past of the Jews in Poland:

these people should be punished.

So, how do you think:

these people should be punished.

?

Feel free to report it. It's all in context, all on topic, and all using (unlike some of the insults you've inarticulately hurled) in very moderate language. Your words that Jewish Poles "should be punished" are now out there, showing on a seach engine and not going away any time soon...
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #402
since you have a difficulty in understadning English let me rephrase my judgment, the Poles of Jewish Nationality that have decided not to integrate into the second Republic at the time, to create somekind of an artificial state, or to change the country in one way or another, or to try and form somekind if an alliance, an opposition ot the rest of the population with the ideology of nationalism based on hate of other religions and nationalities within the Multicultural Second Republic should punished and were punished by different parts of the legislation. Polish govt actions were a reaction to the rise of Zionism, the same can be said about the Ukrainian natiolists such Bandera, the Polish govt oppresed the people that were against the Republic as it stood and righfully so punished them be it by legislation against people that took sivil yet unjust actions or against the people that too k a gun and started preaching about the extermination of the Poles from Volhynia.

If you have a problem with it then tough shoot, thats the history for you, without any bias.

showing on a seach engine and not going away any time soon...

Thats okay, same things are written in many history books, apart from that its the PF and we are all happily anonymous
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #403
And then you were trying to introduce Wolyn as a red herring.

Lets get this straight. One moment you try to talk about:

the so called oppresion of the jews

and a few minutes later come out with:

these people should be punished.

. so in effect you're saying that there was no oppression of the Jews as well as saying that the oppression of the Jews was right. Which of those conflicting steatements was a lie?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
19 Mar 2015 #404
since you have a difficulty in understadning English

Not a wise move to criticize other members' English, Goofy, especially when yours is so dreadful.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #405
okay, so in your opinion a thief is being oppressed if he is being sent to jail right? ;)
yet again you have misunderstood me.
No people should be EVER oppressed, however individuals, or groups of individual should be punished if they are found guilty of crimes.. for an exaple discrimination of a different part of the society because of an ideology be it Zionism for an example.

Roger5, at least i can understand his remarks, he cannot even grasp what i am talking about.
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #406
Now you're trying victim-blaming for 700 years of oppression.

groups of individual should be punished if they are found guilty of crimes

So precisely what 'crimes' do you think the pre-war Jewish community were committing?
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #407
The ones that i have already pointed out to, cant be bothered to repeat myself three times, as I have compained before you have a staggering difficulty of reading with understanding.

Read my posts again and dont spit out 3 sentenced posts, its not facebook, its a forum for god sake.
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #408
What is a nation?

When the peasant became the Pole?

When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?

Those are the questions you should ask first.

Am I right?
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #409
Now you're trying victim-blaming for 700 years of oppression.

groups of individual should be punished if they are found guilty of crimes

So precisely what 'crimes' do you think the pre-war Jewish community were committing?

An interesting gem of reasoning here too:

Do you know what the Polish National Democrats believed that should be done??? They claimed that Jews should integrated, one of the ore popular ideas is that Poles should intermarry with them and then convert the children from these marriages to Catholicism..

Aside from you (a declared admirer of Dmowski and his vicious gang of Endeks) trying to extirpate someone's religious heritage, do you also think that Poles (whether Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Muslim or Orthodox) should have "integrated" during the years of partition and intermarried, converting their children to whatever religion predominated in that zabor?
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #410
So precisely what 'crimes' do you think the pre-war Jewish community were committing?

please read my previous posts, thanks

should have "integrated" during the years of partition and intermarried, converting their children to whatever religion predominated in that zabor?

interesting question, however you seem to forget that Poland under partitions was stil Poland. with polish indigineus society living under the ioccupation of other peoples. Living in a foreign country, the UK, I and many other Poles, thousands upon thousands of us on immigration accept the nations laws and integrate into the new society, not losing our cuklture and religion/national values but for an example accepting the laws and employing Brits and Poles alike
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #411
What is the organizing principle of a nation?

It can't be race, because France is "Celt, Iberian, German....The most noble countries, England, France and Italy, are the ones where the blood is most mixed." Language, by contrast, "invites us but does not force us, to unite". Countries which share the Spanish or English language don't merge with one another, while the people of Switzerland speak several languages. Modern nationhood also cannot be based on religion, which Renan observes, is currently practiced according to individual belief. "You can be French, English, German, yet Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or practicing no religion". Mutuality of interests is fine for corporations and their affiliates, but nationality is based on sentiment. Geography merely leads us astray, and often to violence: "Mountains don't know how to carve out countries".

Don't you afraid that you are loosing your Polish identity and unwittingly are gaining a new one?
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #412
What is the organizing principle of a nation?

To carry on the tradition, values, religion and culture of the peoples

"You can be French, English, German, yet Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or practicing no religion". Mutuality of interests is fine for corporations and their affiliates, but nationality is based on sentiment. Geography merely leads us astray, and often to violence: "Mountains don't know how to carve out countries".

Its a typical socialist way of thinking, nation shares the same mentality, literature and nation's history.

Don't you afraid that you are loosing your Polish identity and unwittingly are gaining a new one?

Not in the slightest, just because you live in a foreign country doesnt automatically mean that one will lose his country's heritage and identity.. look at the Jews for an example.
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #413
look at the Jews for an example

Because you seem not to read my posts in English, at least the links attached to them, then read the same in Polish, but please read it carefully now:

"Naród żydowski został wymyślony"
palestyna.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/narod-zydowski-zostal-wymyslony

What do you think about all this?
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #414
please read my previous posts, thanks

Now you're extirpating, and there's a name for people who do that. I've read all your posts and no mention of anything listed in the legal code as a 'crime'. Could you point out the criminal acta committed by the Jewish community as a whole that warranted that, as you said [quote-goofy_the_dog]they should be punished[/quote]?

Poland under partitions was stil Poland. with polish indigineus society living under the ioccupation of other peoples

Makes no difference, unless you think Mr Kowalski living at number 5 had more rights to cultural integrity than Mr Kaplan at number 7; that one was a first class citizen and the other wasn't. Do you think that?
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #415
What do you think about all this?

A bit controversial ...

Makes no difference, unless you think Mr Kowalski living at number 5 had more rights to cultural integrity than Mr Kaplan at number 7; that one was a first class citizen and the other wasn't. Do you think that?

the minority shoud in time integrate into the society which is the majority in a country, i believe that integration has couple of levels to it, onebeing a complete integration, the other being limitly integrated, e.g. you know the language, you like the country and its perople but you remain a member of your own culture- perfectly acceptable.

However what should never be acceptable and be punished by the law is alienation and hostility agaionst teh indigenous population, or not accepting the countries rules and laws.

Thats what I think, jewish and ukrainian natioanalists tried to create a new country within a country which had already been established, any group that tries to destroy the order, by for an example secluding themselves fromother parts of the society by kicking out Polish workers out and employing only the ones of their own culture/religion/nationality should be punished and persecuted with full force of the law.
jon357 67 | 16,836
19 Mar 2015 #416
the minority shoud in time integrate into the society which is the majority in a country

That's a huge assumption.

However what should never be acceptable and be punished by the law is alienation and hostility agaionst teh indigenous population, or not accepting the countries rules and laws.

So is that.

You referred to "crimes committed", however we aren't talking about what you think should be a crime but what was specifically a crime. So far you've failed to give any examples. Also, you say something should be "punished by the law", but don't mention who (a person? a family? a village? a town?) or how they should be "punished". You also seem to think that a member of a group should be forced to employ members of another group. So basically, you're suggesting that Jews should have been second-class citizens...

any group that tries to destroy the order

There was no 'order' - any 'order' was brand new in 1918-20 and nobody alive even had grandparents who remembered anything otherwise.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #417
You also seem to think that a member of a group should be forced to employ members of another group. So basically, you're suggesting that Jews should have been second-class citizens...

BS, what I beleive is that race laws should be respected, in the Uk for an example an employer lika ASDA or Tesco is obliged by law to employ a % of whites, blacks, asians etc to not seem racist. I'd expect the same from any company in Pre-War Poland, ofc ourse such laws were at shortage however i believe that human morality and rightousness reigned supreme against people that only wanted to socialise with their own "kind", or just a group of people that they believed they were a part of.

was brand new in 1918-20

Epic fail at hitory sighted :)
The supposed "anti-semtism" of the governemnt machine started in 1937 and abrubtly finished in 1939 for the known reasons, just give eveyrone a timefram,me over which we ar debating for the last 5 hours or so :)
Borek Falecki - | 52
19 Mar 2015 #418
what I believe is that race laws should be respected, in the UK, for example, an employer like ASDA or Tesco is obliged by law to employ a % of Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc. for not to be considered racist.

Is the British society really divided by race or is it only your way of seeing it?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,839
19 Mar 2015 #419
I believe large employers are supposed to have staffing levels that reflect the local population so eg a company in an area that had 40 per cent Black people and 40 white and 20 Asian should have that reflected in their staffing.

I would not really say that this 'divides a society by race' boris.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #420
nope, not anymore, the race laws allowed to it to be much more tolerant but in 1970s-80s that was a wholly different country from the stories of many Englsh people that I know


Home / History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.