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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?


Harry
5 Mar 2009 #241
Harry at smearing everything Polish and twisting facts.

Strangely enough, just this morning I was photographing and writing about the plaque on the wall of St. Augustine Church on ul Nowolipki. No doubt you know the one I mean: the one commemorating the Christian Poles who died helping their Jewish countrymen.
1jola 14 | 1,879
5 Mar 2009 #242
BTW. I don't consider pointing out instances of Polish antisemitism or collaboration with the Nazis as smearing Poland; these are facts not smears.

Fair enough. Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears, primaly by Jews outside Poland. This is evident to most Poles. In Poland this method has no chance but in the US, Israel where people have the Schindler view of Polish history, it is repeatedly used as smears.

Just as some Polish Jews collaborated with the Nazis is also fact.

It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite. It is also a very unknown "fact." Most people don't know the extent and severity of Jewish collaboration yet they "know" the Poles were collaborators and anti-Semites. Of course, you are free to spread half truths or outright lies about Poles with impunity, nay, even encouragment. Let's test this. I have made no effort to search, but you can find an English language article in the mainstream press discussing Jewish collaboration. Let's make it recent, say 2008. Post a link and we'll see what they say.

I recognise both as part of Polish history whereas you do not.

You are wrong. I recognize both too and I have enough knowledge to draw conclusions. I'm interested what the public is offered. Let's not make a pissing contest out of it, please. Let's look at the facts first.
sjam 2 | 541
5 Mar 2009 #243
but in the US, Israel where people have the Schindler view of Polish history,

They also have Polanski's Oscar winning 'The Pianist' which shows equally the Jewish Police actions in the Ghetto (but also one that helped Szpilman escape the Umschlagplatz) and the Poles help to Szpilman contrasted by the Pole who stole money from others that were trying to help Szpilman, it also portrayed German oficer who could have shot Szpilman but did not and chose to help him. It also shows the Polish blackmailers.

So you might think US and Israel has just a 'Schindler view' but this is just your generalistion and opinion but doesn't mean it is applicable in reality.

It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite.

Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears,

Sorry, but if that is your position then in fairness one could equally state that you have been using the facts of Jewish Police, or the 13's et alii to smear the Polish Jews.

Fair enough. Facts are not smears, but they are being used as smears, primaly by Jews outside Poland.

You say it is fair now despite having previoulsy called me anti-Polish for stating what you now say is fair enough? So I will accept your agreement that I was being fair all along ;-))
Harry
5 Mar 2009 #244
It might be a fact to you, but when you start to give those facts you are immediately called an anti-Semite.

Have you been called an anti-semite for posting about those facts? No, you haven't.

It is also a very unknown "fact." Most people don't know the extent and severity of Jewish collaboration yet they "know" the Poles were collaborators and anti-Semites.

We've very recently discussed what British schools teach about Jewish collaboration. Unfortunately, you, as a Polish-American Jew, appear to know more about what British schools teach than people who actually went to British schools.

Let's test this. I have made no effort to search, but you can find an English language article in the mainstream press discussing Jewish collaboration. Let's make it recent, say 2008. Post a link and we'll see what they say.

This article isn't particularly recent but frankly I can't be bothered to go past the first ten results of a google search for ' "Jewish collaboration" nazis':

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DB1331F935A15756C0A961948260
pawian 177 | 14,722
26 Jan 2010 #245
thenews.pl/national/?id=124409

Poland ghetto

Auschwitz children's stories collection published

The Auschwitz Museum has published a reprint of a collection of stories for children, compiled by prisoners at the death camp in World War 2.
The stories - Bajki z Auschwitz - were printed illegally by Polish prisoners working in the offices of Nazi architects preparing plans for extension of the camp. According to former camp inmates, about 50 copies of the little book were created, using stolen paper and paints, and printed clandestinely.

The finished books were smuggled out of the camp. Most of the stories were written or translated by Stanisław Bęć.
The book contains six stories altogether: "The adventures of the little black chick" which is probably the first ever children's story written in Auschwitz; "The story of the Hare, the Fox and the Cockerel" translated from the Czech; "Every Living Thing" describes insects, birds and animals found in fields, gardens and homes - also based on a Czech original; "The Wasps' Wedding" which is the only story that has survived without its illustrations; "The Selfish Giant" a rhymed version of the story by Oscar Wilde and "The Tales of the Learned Cat" a copy of which the Museum received in 1999.

This is the first book for children by the Auschwitz Museum Press, which since its creation in 1957 has published more than 400 titles of a total 8 million copies, including historical books, memoirs, albums, catalogues and guides in 20 language versions.

Proceeds from the sale of the book of stories for children are particularly to go towards preserving items documenting the fate of children at the death camp, and the so-called childrens' barracks at Birkenau.

Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Jan 2010 #246
And where is the proof that they were smuggled out?
pawian 177 | 14,722
26 Jan 2010 #247
Do you expect SS stamps on the raw materials?
caprice49 4 | 224
26 Jan 2010 #248
proof that they were smuggled out?

Thomas!! Next you will be asking you was Stanislaw Bec
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Jan 2010 #249
It depends how much they wanted to cover their bases ;) ;) Security was said to be very tight so I was just wondering if sb can inextricably tie those books to an Auschwitz smuggle.

Auschwitz is not 9/11 where there is ample footage upon which to base conclusions. Remember, hearsay is admissible to different levels in common law jurisdictions.

Thomas?? I've lost count of how many times I've found articles to be inaccurate.
pawian 177 | 14,722
26 Jan 2010 #250
Security was said to be very tight so I was just wondering if sb can inextricably tie those books to an Auschwitz smuggle.

Definitely you need to read more stories and diaries about Auschwitz. There was resistance movement in the camp. Not only materials but also people were smuggled in and out. E.g, your compatriot, Denis Avey. You know how to use Google? :):):):)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Jan 2010 #251
What was the word you used?? Oh, yes, it was "stories". You wanna hear my story about the time I saw a pig fly by my window? No, didn't think so ;) ;)

Can you show me the photos of those smuggling things in and out? Isn't it funny that diary accounts often don't check out?

Let's smuggle people in to be shot, LOL ;) ;)
pawian 177 | 14,722
26 Jan 2010 #252
Ooops.

You have been absent really long.

After your comeback, I can`t recognise you.

Is it some new strategy of yours or you have been replaced by Body Snatchers?
caprice49 4 | 224
27 Jan 2010 #253
Can you show me the photos of those smuggling things in and out?

Are really that naive? My mother - a Catholic with no particular reason to highlight the plight of the Jews was one of the lucky ones who lived to tell the tale of the horrors of Auschwitz.

There were however many nationalities (including Germans) of many religions in camp who suffered a similar fate as the Jews and if they are to be reproached it should be for making the holocaust exclusive to them.
jonni 16 | 2,485
27 Jan 2010 #254
Let's smuggle people in to be shot, LOL ;) ;)

There was a British soldier, still alive but over 90, who managed to smuggle him hiself in several times by bribing guards - he was able to bring in supplies which saved people's lives.

This is his story
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8382457.stm
caprice49 4 | 224
27 Jan 2010 #255
There was a British soldier, still alive but over 90, who managed to smuggle him hiself in several times by bribing guards

There were also people who escaped to convey the horrors to the Western Allies who for a long time did not believe what was going on.
jonni 16 | 2,485
27 Jan 2010 #256
who for a long time did not believe what was going on.

Not at all difficult to understand given the horrors of the place.
caprice49 4 | 224
29 Jan 2010 #257
It did beggar belief. And clearly still does with some. Little is mentioned about the offspring of the survivors. They too relived the horrors in graphic detail throughout their childhood.
plk123 8 | 4,149
21 Mar 2010 #258
Auschwitz slideshow
hosenfeld.dk/Auschwitz
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
13 Dec 2014 #259
Merged: British PM visits Nazi deathcamp Auschwitz in Poland

thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/190226,UK-PM-Cameron-pays-respects-in-Auschwitz

Cameron visited both the original concentration camp of Auschwitz as well as Auschwitz-Birkenau, lighting a candle at a monument dedicated to the victims of the Holocaust. David Cameron wrote in a book of remembrance that Auschwitz was "this place where the darkest chapter of human history happened," adding that the world must "never forget" the attrocities which took place there. ... Cameron was accompanied by Piotr Cywinski, Director of the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum on his visit, which comes after a commission was set up in the UK earlier this year to examine how the the country remembes the Holocaust.

auschwitz.org
Crow 146 | 9,140
27 Jul 2017 #260
When we are at Auschwitz, just to expand our view, let us see what one article bringing to us > something founded inspired by Auschwitz but turned to be even worse then Auschwitz >

Croatian WW2 death camp Jasenovac was "worse than Auschwitz"
b92/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2017&mm=07&dd=26&nav_id=101910

Jasenovac and other camps in its "system" were different from other Nazi camps because, according to the testimonies of the survivors, torture there was much more monstrous than in Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps.

Lyzko 29 | 7,255
27 Jul 2017 #261
Auschwitz remains the singular manifestation of the entire Holocaust, not only of the Shoah. Although the town of Oswiecim sadly bears the name of this site, according to a recent Polish documentary I saw, the inhabitants of Oswiecim are rightfully ashamed of the stain brought to their town by association with the infamous camp.
spiritus 68 | 666
29 Jul 2017 #262
Do you think every nation affected by the Holocaust should contribute towards the upkeep of Auschwitz ?
Lyzko 29 | 7,255
29 Jul 2017 #263
Surely, savior nations such as Israel, along with those whose history was responsible for Auschwitz, that is, for the Holocaust such as Germany, to a lesser extent Poland. The US too should help out, as well as France, Russia and various allied countries during the War.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
29 Jul 2017 #264
to a lesser extent Poland.

cnuts like you makes me regret that Poland didnt join Hitler
kaprys 3 | 2,502
29 Jul 2017 #265
Poland's responsible for the Holocaust ... how lovely ...
gregy741 4 | 1,204
29 Jul 2017 #266
piece of **** he is,,scum is everywhere
if anyone collaborated en masse with nazi occupier ,there were jews not poles.go learn who run ghettos for nazis
Lyzko 29 | 7,255
29 Jul 2017 #267
While I never ONCE as much as intimated that Poland was "responsible" for the Holocaust (your words, not mine), without local cooperation, upon which Hitler was banking heavily, the Holocaust wouldn' have proceeded as astonishingly quickly as it did! This is a fact, look it up in Raul Hillberg's monumentally resarched "The Destruction of the Jews" - unabridged version!

Poland, much as throughout the rest of Catholic Europe, had been spoon-fed the lie that the Jews killed Jesus. More to the point, Judas Iskariot turned him in...but to the Romans, and not to his fellow Israelites:-)

Anti-Semitism therefore remains merely the result of a mass misconception, not based on historical fact, pure and simple.
Bieganski 17 | 901
29 Jul 2017 #268
if anyone collaborated en masse with nazi occupier ,there were jews not poles.go learn who run ghettos for nazis

Absolutely. Lyzko and his ilk on here are Zionist trolls who misuse PF to push a Jewish supremacist agenda cloaked in victimhood by denigrating and spreading lies about Poles.
Lyzko 29 | 7,255
29 Jul 2017 #269
I'm not a Zionist, though trying to convince the ignorant of the truth is like trying to sail upstream without a paddleLOL
Bieganski 17 | 901
29 Jul 2017 #270
Everything you preach on here is Zionist. You are a Jewish supremacist.


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