The smallest Poland ever?

It doesn't. It's actually one of the few EU states left where Americans can obtain residency legally and painlessly. It also doesn't demand a Polish language test in order to keep out racist Polacks who blacken Poland's name.


Jeez, your knowledge of history is about as poor as it gets. Kosovo was, as created by Tito, an autonomous province of Serbia - which was merely schematics, as Kosovo was more or less fully functioning as a republic within Yugoslavia. They had a vote on the Federal Presidency and were, to all practical extents, another Yugoslav republic - hence why they have a legitimate claim to self determination. And for what it's worth - those Albanians always lived in Kosovo.

Incidentally, why "sadly"? Have you managed to forget that Serbia was and is backed by Russia for many years? If you want to know why Poland recognises Kosovo - there's your answer.

not true - they have settled Serbian lands devastated by Turkish invasions (14th-16th centuries) - Kosovo was a cradle of Serbian statehood - why do you think 8th century monasteries are all over the place (or rather were)


Poland or rather Tusk government recognised Kosovo to brown-nose Germans and the French and perhaps the US

The only people blackening Poland's name are racist Russkie enemy within anti-Polish bigots like yourself that was allowed into the country. You would know about Poland letting in people who don't speak Polish and don't belong in Poland. Poland let you in. LOL

Albanians didn't live in Kosovo in the large numbers that they do now. Kosovo always had Serbian culture within it.

Who cares if Serbia was or was not backed by Russia? I have nothing against average Russians. Just racist Russkis like yourself.

Poland's government recognized Kosovo basically to go along to get along with other EU countries that recognized Kosovo.

I think Poles are divided on Kosovo. Your favorite Polish president LOL sided with the Serbs. Why is it that Crow can show a lot of Pro-Serbian demonstrations in Poland? That's quite a bit of footage he has ;)

Also since your favorite country Russia supports Serbia, shouldn't you be more supportive of Serbia??

I think a bigger problem is Polands population (i.e birthrate, people leaving the country).

More on topic although this will never happen...
it would be nice if Russia give us Kaliningrad and area for reparations.
and Ukraine give us Lwow back and the very west of Ukraine so we can border with Hungary -_-

And then you give back eastern Poland to Ukraine, western part to Germany and the northern territories to Sweden, which had that in the past and, of course, the southern territories to Austria where they should belong. How is that? Then just move to Budapest and enjoy Hungarians all day long.

blah blah ......Lwów should belong to Poland.

And Breslau to Germany?

and who are you ?

Львів belongs to Ukraine and Wrocław belongs to Poland, and that's how it should stay (moreover,
it is how it WILL stay, despite some occasional rants from various Internet entities :)).

Of course, Poles will always feel a lot of sentiment to their Lwów, just as some Germans still remember
their Breslau. However, both cities are in good hands now, and both Germans and Poles (I hope) are
welcome to visit them or even settle there, if they wish so (in case of Germans who are EU citizens
and are free to live in Poland).

Lwow,Wilno,Grodno and few other Polish towns will belong to Poland again (like half of respectfully Belarus,Lithuania and Ukraine).Land given to Poland in the West in 1945 is a rightfull compensation for Germany's war crimes and a border with Germany is non negotiable but in the East Poland has to try to restore pre 1939 borders.

Obsessed again with Russians, I see.


Perhaps, but Albanians were in the majority within the Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo - and this gave them the legal grounds for seccession. Like it or hate it - Tito created the conditions for seccession.


If you actually lived in Poland, you'd know that the vast majority of Poles have the attitude that any ally of Russia is no ally of Poland. You'd also know that the vast majority of Poles have far more in common with Croats (being both Slavic and Catholic) than Serbs (being Slavic, but Orthodox).


Or perhaps they recognised Kosovar independence because it was the de facto reality on the ground?


Who is my favourite Polish president?

Incidentally, those "pro-Serbian" demonstrations are, as I've told you before, organised by far right groups who see some sort of twisted parallel between what happened to Poland and what happened to Serbia. You simply cannot compare Poland being forcibly reshaped with Serbian actions in the late 80's to 1999 - the two have absolutely nothing in common.

Poles are *not* divided on Kosovo. In fact - again - if you lived here, you'd know that in general, people tend to support whatever Russia opposes. There's your big clue as to why Poland recognised Kosovo.


Russia's not my favourite country (so far, Italy is), but it's certainly something that appears to keep you awake at night.


HAHAHAHAHA. What a great act of trolling that would be - giving Poland an economically ruined area with a huge black economy under the guise of "repatriations". Poland can just about afford to look after the poor Eastern areas - what hope does she have of looking after Kaliningrad?


Poles are definitely welcome - although getting residency there is difficult if you don't have a totally legal reason for doing so, anyone who actually *wants* to will find a way ;)


I'd rather Poland concentrated on building up Poland first rather than trying to retake incredibly poor areas. Heck, Poland is struggling to deal with the problems of Eastern Poland - what hope does she have with places like Chyrow?

(reminds me, Torq - I have a video to send you)

That is sentiment I share.


You must be kidding, or worse you are PC preacher.


Common, who is saying this? The Jew whom they do not want in Israel, that funny.

A European who didn't know that redrawing borders is still a popular pastime in Poland.

It isn't, believe me, although reading posts on this forum can indeed give you such impression.

That is not the point - point is that only Wroclaw is in good hands and you know it.Why are you saying different then eh?


gee.... its old .....I guess fun is over...
Monia, he is not a Jew, he volunteer to be one but they said nay, we don't want that shmondack :)


Meaning?
As for borders nobody is redrawing borders here or in Poland, we are only discussing things.

Sure... :)

Now let's discuss whether we should partition Poland again. No more useless talks about shifting borders and which city belongs to whom then.

Is it?

Plenty of ruined looking German buildings here. I went for a walk today from Ostrow Tumski to the Dworzec PKS, then back round via Galeria Dominikanska - and I'm not impressed.

Because it's 2011, Iron. If you said what you said about Lwów in 1945, then I might even agree.
I said it before, Poland was mutilated after World War 2 - there were 4 profoundly Polish cities
that defined Polishness and were symbols and sites of Polish spirit and soul: Lwów, Wilno, Warszawa
and Kraków. Lwów and Wilno were taken away from us, and Warsaw was razed to the ground, so we
were left only with Kraków. It was a traumatic experience for the entire nation - nation that stood up
to nazis and fought them from the first to the last day of the war, was not only subdued by the Soviets
(with the accord of our dear Western "allies") but also it lost its Kresy... I know all that, Iron.

However, it was in 1945, and things have changed a bit since then. There's no more Soviet Union,
Lviv is now a part of independent Ukraine (and it is in our best national interest to support their
independence), we rebuilt the razed Eastern German provinces and turned them into true Polish lands,
and the last thing we need now is opening the Pandora's box by trying to redraw borders in Europe again.

Nay, you are right, we on the PF are conspiring to take over the world.


That would be cruel and immoral, nobody is advertising here destruction of another country, well maybe with exceptions of Kosovo, but there is Albania for Albanians.


Well, maybe not all is rosy but at last Wroclaw was rebuild after WWII destruction by Poles.


So, you are willing to lie about real state of affairs to conserve status quo?
Anyhow, nothing is eternal on this Earth, I think that your little plan to stay low and don't offend anyone is doomed, things doesn't work like that not for country's anyway! And Poland need a plan, a good plan to regain its interdependence.

*bows to the Master* :)


He's Groanside, forgive him, Torq.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit. :)

Erm... no - I'm simply not willing to die, conquering a city that ceased to be Polish long time ago
(just like Wrocław is no longer a German city), just to satisfy someone's sick fantasies of "Greater
Poland".


Yes, Ironside - that is precisely my plan, and do you know why? Because, when push comes to shove,
it's guys like me who have to fight wars, started by lunatics with delusions of grandeur.
It's guys like me, who just want to be happy with their families and enjoy their work, who have to die
in the mud with feckin bayonettes between our ribs, whilst the bigmouths are usually the first to run
for their lives.

So, forgive me if I'm not too enthusiastic about people ranting that "Lwów should belong to Poland" etc.

That's a contradiction. Either they are in good hands or turned into true Polish lands.

Is that a fact? Your 6th post on this forum and you're showing your true colours already - good! :)

Indeed - if you didn't know the history, you wouldn't know the difference. Even for me, it's always surprising to realise that places like Klodzko were very much German market towns at one time.

For me, there's no argument - the Western and Northern territories (to use the hyper-correct name...) are very firmly Polish these days. I imagine Kaliningrad is very much Russian, too.

Still, I wonder how these expansionists would pay for the reconstruction of the L'viv oblast? The infrastructure is falling to bits - many villages don't even have properly paved roads - heck, just compare the road from Sanok to Kroscienko granica, then compare from there to Lwów. Nightmare.

Just a logical conclusion. If you turn non-Polish regions into "true Polish land" you must erase the former culture. If you remove the former culture the region can't be in good hands. Simple logic.

:)

Then I suppose you should go to some American forum and tell them that the entire USA is not in good
hands. Simple logic.

Most countries in Europe are "not in good hands" according to your logic, as various peoples migrated
throughout millenia of its history from different regions of Europe or Asia, removing former cultures and
occupying new lands.

Its not about fantasies, it is about necessity not for me but for Poland.


What is with that obsession of yours with wars, maybe there will be peaceful solution.


Yes, I know because you think only about yourself and your own cosy place you have nested for yourself, and secondly you don't think ahead.


I'm not ranting, just saying.


See, you getting excited with your imagination running wild, hard to discus with somebody's fears.



Eh? Your statement is anything but logical.

You dont know the history my dear,
it was Lithuania by name and name only

How many children do you have, Ironside?

I'm asking because it is necessity for Poland to stop our country from dying out from both
low birthrate and mass emmigration. If Poland had Germany's population density, we would
have about 70 million citizens. Now, we only have a half of this number and it's decreasing constantly.
That's what we have to worry about, as well as removing from power the retards who currently
ru(i)n our country. We have to worry about improving our economy, not about incorporating huge
masses of land with foreign populations, conquest and "Greater Poland".

So, how many little Ironsides ate the Easter breakfast today with you?


Do you really think that Ukrainians will give us Lwów peacefully? Do you think Lithuanians are so eager
to give their capital city to Poland? You need to think again.


Which, somehow, seems to me more sensible than thinking about conquering former Polish lands in the east.


Thinking ahead is precisely what I do.