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Restoration of Poland's Monarchy?


Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #1

Hi All,
In your opinion (especially if you are Polish!), what are the views of the Polish people towards ever having a King or Queen again? How do modern Poles view how the ancient Kingdom of Poland has shaped the modern People's Republic of Poland?

And, if the Polish monarchy were ever to return, what would make the ideal monarch? Would they be male/female or a ruling couple? Would they have to be Polish by birth and a Roman Catholic?

Any honest responses greatly welcome!
Barbastelle

Ziemowit Activity: 7 / 2,168
Joined: 8 May 2009 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #2

In your opinion (especially if you are Polish!), what are the views of the Polish people towards ever having a King or Queen again?

I am for it (I'm Polish, born in Poland and having lived in Poland from birth). However, I think it not posible to happen in the forseeable future. The tradition of our monarchy has been abruptly stopped and in the period that followed Poland did not exist at all. Our royal crowns and other royal attributes were stolen by the Prusians from Kraków in 1794 and probably melted into gold by these barbarians who had no respect for such things. Notice, however, that neither of independent state which came into being in Central or Eastern Europe after the WW I restored or introduced monarchy (except, if I'm not mistaken, Yougoslavia and Romania) and some countries of the "old" Europe said good-bye to theirs (Germany) or even acted beyond that forbiding members of their royal families from entering the country (Austria).
jon357 Activity: 54 / 10,431
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #3

There are a few monarchists in PL however it's a fringe thing. I've never heard anyone seriously propose restoring a monarchy, and indeed when one existed it didn't end well.
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #4

I am for it

Can you tell me why? What do you think Poland would be like, under the rule of a King or Queen as opposed to a President? Would it increase the national pride that the people of Poland so rightfully deserve?

However, I think it not posible to happen in the forseeable future.

Again, can you tell me why? :)

Our royal crowns and other royal attributes were stolen by the Prusians from Kraków in 1794 and probably melted into gold by these barbarians who had no respect for such things.

Sick. The work of twisted and paranoid minds, I am sure.

Notice, however, that neither of independent state which came into being in Central or Eastern Europe after the WW I restored or introduced monarchy (except, if I'm not mistaken, Yougoslavia and Romania) and some countries of the "old" Europe said good-bye to theirs (Germany) or even acted beyond that forbiding members of their royal families from entering the country (Austria).

Or murdered them, in the case of the Russian Imperial family.

There are a few monarchists in PL however it's a fringe thing. I've never heard anyone seriously propose restoring a monarchy, and indeed when one existed it didn't end well.

Would you say that was circumstantial (the character of monarchic rulers, Polish and global economy and wars at the time, impending annexations, etc), or the fault of the monarchy overall?

Barbastelle
jon357 Activity: 54 / 10,431
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #5

Would you say that was circumstantial (the character of monarchic rulers, Polish and global economy and wars at the time, impending annexations, etc), or the fault of the monarchy overall?

People are largely happy with the system in place now and there's no great desire to go back to something they see as an anachronism.
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #6

I see :)

Do you think that Poland is improving for the better in terms of economic growth, national wealth, national satisfaction etc? :)
Barbastelle
jon357 Activity: 54 / 10,431
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #7

Massively so.
Barney Activity: 14 / 1,476
Joined: 26 May 2008 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #8

In your opinion (especially if you are Polish!), what are the views of the Polish people towards ever having a King or Queen again?

Those in favour of such a thing would have to make an argument that the present system is not fit for purpose then they would have to make an argument as to why it was a good idea to treat people differently by opting for such an undemocratic thing.
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #9

I gather that you are not in favour then, Barney ;)
Barbastelle
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,803
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #10

Sick. The work of twisted and paranoid minds, I am sure.

1794 ... how long ago is that once again ... ? :)
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #11

Not all that long ago to a British mind ;)
Barbastelle
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
Joined: 1 Jun 2008 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #12

The tradition of our monarchy has been abruptly stopped and in the period that followed Poland did not exist at all

Polish kings got their crown from the highest bidder, the foreign power which managed to buy the majority of the magnates and szlachta. Which royal tradition?
Szalawa Activity: 4 / 274
Joined: 12 Apr 2014 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #13

Yes, Poland had an elected Monarchy after the Jagiellon's died. Corrupt Magnates working for foreign powers where a big problem in the latter years, however most of the szlachta where OK and could veto any move the king made that seemed corrupt. see executionist movement :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executionist_movement
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #14

This idea of electing monarchs has always been a marvel to me. Was it conducted in a similar way to how we elect Prime Ministers and Presidents today?

Barbastelle
Barney Activity: 14 / 1,476
Joined: 26 May 2008 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #15

I gather that you are not in favour then, Barney

No I'm not for the very simple reason that I believe that people should be treated equally.
gumishu Activity: 10 / 4,161
Joined: 6 Apr 2009 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #16

the foreign power which managed to buy the majority of the magnates and szlachta

i think you underestimate the numbers of szlachta - they were so numerous no foreing power can possibly bribe all of them or even a majority - this does not mean they could not have been manipulated
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #17

gumishu: I think you underestimate the numbers of szlachta

Are we talking hundreds?
Barbastelle
Szalawa Activity: 4 / 274
Joined: 12 Apr 2014 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #18

Are we talking hundreds?

No, could be anywhere form 5-15 % of the entire population of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #19

Wow! But then that must make them not so special >_<
Barbastelle
Szalawa Activity: 4 / 274
Joined: 12 Apr 2014 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #20

what makes it special is the fact that there was nothing else like that in Europe at that time
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #21

That makes sense, did they have titles or just regional privileges?
Barbastelle
Szalawa Activity: 4 / 274
Joined: 12 Apr 2014 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #22

Titles, it had to be inherited by lineage for the most part
Marysienka Activity: 1 / 195
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 ♀
 
22 Jul 2014  #23

Titles were just "szlachcic" which means either nobleman or member of gentry ( there are some heated discussions on this forum , about which is correct).

About monarchy, it may work where it already exists or where there is lineage and tradition. In Poland partitions and earlier elections of kings means we have in last 440 years we had more than 200 years of elective kings, more than 40 of presidents and 200 of not existing and having forced government.
Wroclaw Boy  
22 Jul 2014  #24

what are the views of the Polish people towards ever having a King or Queen again?

I cant imagine what possible positive purpose installing an ancient form of social segregation and hierarchy such as royalty could serve. Isn't humanity supposed to evolve and move forward, not backwards? So no, absolutely terrible idea.

Should Poland implement Feudalism too?
Barney Activity: 14 / 1,476
Joined: 26 May 2008 ♂
 
22 Jul 2014  #25

Should Poland implement Feudalism too?

Very good point.
There is absolutely nothing in your post that any reasonable and well balanced person could possibly disagree with.
sobieski Activity: 109 / 2,132
Joined: 1 Jun 2008 ♂
 
23 Jul 2014  #26

and could veto any move the king made that seemed corrupt

You are talking about the liberum veto here, which was the summum of anarchism. All schlachta were in the pay of their respective magnates and voted as instructed by them. And the magnates were in the pay of foreign powers.
jon357 Activity: 54 / 10,431
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 ♂
 
23 Jul 2014  #27

[quot= Barbastelle]Wow! But then that must make them not so special >_<[/quote]
Most were nothing special at all, and to describe them as 'nobles' is stretching things. They were basically the caste who elected the monarch and had some rights that others didn't. In theory, they were all equal. There was however a problem with all this:

All schlachta were in the pay of their respective magnates and voted as instructed by them. And the magnates were in the pay of foreign powers.

All were equal, but some were more equal than others. This frustrated the whole system and there was endless politicking between oligarchs.
Szalawa Activity: 4 / 274
Joined: 12 Apr 2014 ♂
 
23 Jul 2014  #28

You are talking about the liberum veto here, which was the summum of anarchism.

Yes, I do acknowledge it was counter productive for any central authority but at the same time it was necessary for liberty

All schlachta were in the pay of their respective magnates and voted as instructed by them. And the magnates were in the pay of foreign powers.

Yes, Magnates were a real problem. Some magnates owned land in the P-L C larger then some entire countries in Europe. Corruption is a problem, even in today's USA we can see a similar situation unfolding.

All were equal, but some were more equal than others.

a quote from animal farm

Most were nothing special at all, and to describe them as 'nobles' is stretching things.

allot were dirt poor, some did not even own land. I agree, noble is an incorrect term, I think they had compulsory military service so in a way it would make them the privileged military caste. But Szlachta was a prized title and was not determined by material wealth but based on ancestral importance, many of these title's have interesting historical stories of how one's ancestor acquired the title.
OP Barbastelle Activity: 2 / 14
Joined: 22 Jul 2014 ♀
 
23 Jul 2014  #29

Were the Crown Jewels ever remade in Poland?
Barbastelle
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,803
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
23 Jul 2014  #30

at the same time it was necessary for liberty

Liberty for whom? Only for the privileged class. The vast majority of the population were peasants and townsfolk without rights.




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