Poland during the Renaissance

Vilnius was a much more dynamic place before that. The God forgotten little tribe killed its leaders yearly or so, and they conquered the post-Ruthenic territory down to the Black Sea. Then they fled to union with Poland, and got civilised. This sort of dynamics was not the most appreciated attitude in Poland. For centuries on.

Are we going to a long and pointless exchange of links comparing economic data now? No, thank you. You can believe what you wish. I will still think that Poland at that time had nothing but good things going for her.

Wrong. Learn some history.

Edit: I mean, Polish history. I suppose you know enough about Italy etc.

Perhaps you should, since you seem to believe that the renaissance in Poland was somehow more dynamic than the Italian Renaissance!

Now what do you mean by this Italian dynamics? Small city-states struggling for power? Thank you, I'd rather have 'wsi spokojna, wsi wesoła'. Not hat Poland did not evolve culturally at this time, of course. Following the European trends, no denial. And modifying them by other trends too.

I suspect you know the Serene Republic of Venice, the Papal States et al were rather more than that: they certainly produced a trulu unparalleled flowering of culture.

Right. Now try to understand what I wrote, already twice, and please react to that. Culture of painting fine portraits of local apparatchiks, done in the free moments between tidying up blood and brains from the floor, although unparalleled in Europe, does not impress me more than the culture of peaceful life. You prefer struggle for power, assassinations, poisonings, treachery, conquest, painting, and painting, I don't. Must be a cultural difference.

Anyway, find me in Europe anything similar to Renaissance Poland. Paralleled.

Edit: I got interrupted, sorry. I mean, a strong, wealthy country with no enemies considering serious invasion, and all neighbours yearning to marry any daughter of any Polish king, just to have this kind of a brother-in-law. In case of trouble.

You've partially summed up the Renaissance - I'm glad you're slowly beginning to understand. Though you missed out science, architecture, medicine, navigation, literature and a quest for knowledge that has informed the world we live in today. Much more interesting than farming.

JonnyM


Yes, I have.


Don't overestimate your influence on me. I did have some vague idea about what Renaissance was and where it begun even before you took so much effort to enlighten me. What I mean, from the beginning, is what I wrote in my previous posts. Please refer to them.

What I said was that there was no country like Poland in Europe, never. No European country enjoyed that long period of undisturbed development, with no real international issues, due to the locally unmatched political and economic power. No other country grew so big without conquest, by sheer cultural influence. Obviously, the influence was to the East, but anyway.

That's what we are proud of. Not of the development of arts and sciences by Italians et al. Capisci? Can you accept that? Or you prefer to remind me that it was not a Pole who discovered America.

Just a shame they couldn't sustain it really, isn't it?

Nothing lasts forever.

Right. And the Italians are still the cultural avant-guard, unmatched in 'dynamics' and painterly creativity, ever on the cutting edge of science and medicine. Poles suck, we all know that. Nice talking to you.

Philistine.

How can you say that about the country that gave us Bunga Bunga?

Just a trillion dollar economy, outstanding in the fields of design, engineering, finance etc. Plus one of the world's biggest tourist destinations. Y'know, all those people going to visit the physical legacy of the Renaissance.

Though you are fully entitled to live in agricultural peace and quiet.

Not to mention such advancement of humankind as fascism ...

Not a single successful 5-year plan, though. Suckers.

Um... maybe try and google WW2 and its repercussions. Should be a real eye-opener, man.

Edit:


Now you've beaten me. Nobody comes to Poland to dig in the post-war rubble. Not that there's much left now.

Not that WWII exactly passed Italy by, but I'm sure you know (since this is a thread on the Renaissance) that both places were inhabited between the Sixteenth and the mid-Twentieth Centuries too. But that doesn't fit your 'argument', does it?

Perhaps you just prefer polskie gówno w polu niżli fiołki w Neapolu...

And mafia...


It doesn't fit the topic. The bold red letters on the top of page.

You are so blinded by your hatred of Jews that you wish to claim that 'Congress Poland' was a state with Warsaw as its capital? I feel pity for you. Poles disagreed with you to the point of launching multiple uprisings against Russian rule.


I'm a huge fan of Poles: that's why I choose to live surrounded by them. You, on the other hand, choose to live apart from them. And to lie about them.

So how does:


??

Amazing the squirming some people will reduce themselves to when they're trying to argue a point that doesn't exist.

Not to mention the Lucrezia Borgia guide to being a Domestic Goddess...

Some do. Imagine THAT.

As much as one JonnyM with an Italian trillion dollar economy. Short memory span? Eat more nuts. Buy yourself a golden fish, good for beginners.

Such an amazing family. Though the Medici and arguably the Strozzi achieved more.


No to nie Kanada...

I tried to hint on that. I was too subtle.

Another adjective beginning with the same letter springs more easily to mind.

No, it's not. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Bravissimo. Now we are reaching the typical level of PF discussions. Shame on Poles, always resorting to insults when they lose the argument.

That seems to happen rather a lot here.

HINT: BIG RED LETTERS ON THE TOP OF PAGE


Fancy a free hint, Jonny? Big? Red? Letters? Or is it too subtle.

Edit: Thanks, mod.