Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement

Thats not quite my point,though we are closer on this in most ways.
No, its simple,brutal maths, despite what the official records may "prove" about Poland fielding the fourth largest force in the Allied armies this figure is vastly inflated by lots of,frankly,mouths being fed while wearing a uniform,not fighting soldiers or even genuine support troops,this doesnt take from the valiance of those few Polish Divisions who did fight,they fought like Lions,but, a hand full of Divisions versus the entire Red Army...

Its not even in the same ball park when put as bluntly as that,and frankly, bluntly is how Churchill saw things. " I would give faverouble references for the Devil if Hitler invaded Hell" was one of his lines about Stalin. At the time,Churchill,who had been fighting communists/leftists/anarchists a lot longer than any Poles had (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sidney_Street ) knew he had to lie down with the devil in order to ensure his own countries survival so he kept the 10s of millions of Soviet soldiers sweet while anoying a few thousand Polish Aliies, sad,but true and real politic.

The problem it seems is emotion cannot be detached from the study of history for a lot of Poles and people of Polish descent, maybe Poles are not used to unbiased approaches to studying such things? Id have thought younger ones and those over seas didnt have the same excuse as the older generation but,nope.

But,thats obviously harsh, you should hear some of the utter rubbish some british people spout about their own history,its hilarious,maybe its just that same unfortunate minority being reflected in Poles on here?


So, you seriously think that two governments who discovered during a world war that one of their allies commited a war crime are as guilty of that crime as the government who coldly and in a calculating manner commited the act in total secret and who later tried their hardest to cover up the said crime?

Wow, wouldnt want you on any Jury against me for a parking ticket, Id end up with frikkin life or the chair.......
Maybe look at history and war through grown up eyes,better still,try and get into the mindset of people who can issue orders they know will lead to the deaths of thousands of their own countrymen and not blow their brains out,ie, sociopaths/politicians....they make the decisions,they shape history like it or not. No point in studying history expecting everyone to behave like goodies from Hollywood, hiding to nothing trying that path.....

A bit sensitive aren’t you? You missed my point all together, you should reread my earlier comment perhaps you will find many of the points that you have made in there as well it’s time for you to learn to read between the lines grasshopper. This whole exercise was a rebuttal to Delphos point of how wonderful British and American media are and how they defended the truth above all. My point is that the realpolitik and media news stories of the time simply reflect the politics and the goals of the government in charge at the moment as the media is its greatest tool. Nuremburg trials kind of proved it as the war was over and the dawn of new reality. Truth is that in order to salvage what was left of the British Empire the truth once more had to be suppressed, nothing new really, it’s business as usual.

Fair enough :)
Over sensative, no,not really, just tired of tired old stories repeated ad nasuem by some Poles, sorry I mistook yours for that ilk :)
How could anyone try and say the BBC at the time was anything but another tool of HM Government?
The world service was broadcasting coded messages to continental resistance groups........censorship was in full swing, no one heard of the Lancastria during the war

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lancastria

a free press would have broken the story.

Same here just change it to Brits and we are cool.

We are cool mate, say no more lol.........or as my Busia used to say........ ;)

you cannot be more wrong, but do continue to push your propaganda

btw I understand why they're cutting teaching history in Poland. If Polish youth learned what happened to their country during
WWII let's just say they would not be friends of England, USA, France, Germany, Russia etc.

The truth is already known (English hiding their archives only support it), the next is apology and reparations!

Correct.
Generations were taught it was a German crime in polish schools.
Anyway,Delph just makes himself look idiotic with his cringeworthy analysis of Katyn and the subsequent cover ups by the spinless 'Allies'.
Wonder where harry is?He doesnt seem to want to talk about this subject.
PMSL.

Exactly, repeated ad nauseam on here as if people with better things to do actually care about them.

How nice of you to repeat the same tired old lie that Britain in some way betrayed Poland. Perhaps you could go into detail about the assistance which it was within Britain’s power to give in September 1939 which was not given? Or perhaps you’d prefer to go into detail about other supposed ways in which the British failed to live up to their obligations under the Anglo-Polish treaty of August 1939?


In the pub and then sleeping. I’m sure you’re looking forward to the day when you are also old enough to go to the pub.


You just keep on repeating that lie but you can not tell us what price was paid to the UK for Poland. Why is that? Could it be that no price was paid because Poland was not sold? Or perhaps you can instead tell us about all the things which Britain could have done to prevent the Soviets take over control of Poland? While you are telling us that, do remember to explain what Britain should have done about the millions of Poles who were communists or collaborated with the communist government.


Why is it that scum like you feel the need to lie about the hundred of brave British servicemen who laid down their lives for Poland in September 1939 alone? Those men did far more for Poland than your ilk will ever do, maybe that is why you lie about them: you claim to be in some way Polish but you have never done a single thing for Poland; they were in no way Polish but still made the ultimate sacrifice for Poland.

Now now larry..
BTW yes you are correct in your analysis (what analysis?)of katyn.The British assisted the cover up for what reason again?
Keep dodging this issue don't you....
PS Like i said,Britian declared war on Germany in sept 39 and did NOTHING,apart from afew token flights into Germany which really really hurt the German war machine didn't it larry,hitler must have been quaking in his boots at the british onslaught..

Please stop with your lies. Or is your position really that the 519 British men who died when HMS Courageous sank were actually so bored that they drowned themselves?

Most people I know are sick to death of "moan moan history moan moan". They're looking to 2041, not 1941.

The only ones still ranting about it are the ones who live in the past, the dinosaurs, Polska B.


More senseless dumb Polack observations, not based on any real knowledge of Poland.


Keep on living in that Polack ghetto dreamland!


Get. Over. It.

I don't think it's much of a surprise that the more uneducated the Polack, the more he pushes lines like KATYN.

ok larry/delph. i think your true colours showed up very well in that sentence,we got there in the end.
bye.

Rough translation: you do not want to apologise for your foul lies about brave British servicemen who did far more for Poland than you ever will.

There's one thing I don't understand though: as you clearly hate Britain and the British so much, why don't you pay back all the benefits you have drained from the state and just leave?

Another epic fail larry. I was born in this country to polish parents.I work and pay my taxes and i certainly have gone on record as saying i have no beef with ANY of the British service personal who fought in ww2 or any other war for that matter.My beef is with the spinelss goverment who sold its ally down the river and assisted in a foul cover up of a huge war crime.

FYI All my friends are English and not a single one of them shares your analysis of events regarding ww2.
You sir,are a troll,i think most who read this forum would have a very similar opinion.
Finally,for someone who has 'allegedly' lived in Poland for 17years i find it very odd you dont understand the language,and i dont mean google translate LOL.

I do wonder why you can't tell us the price for which Poland was allegedly sold post-WWII. Could it possibly be that no price was requested or received? I wonder


Can a mod advise if that on topic enough for me to reply to?

BTW, isn't suspension usually threatened for posters who 'mis-spell' other poster's names?


Can a mod advise if that on topic enough for me to reply to?


Can a mod advise if that on topic enough for me to reply to?

LOL I believe you labelled me 'scum' yesterday.
Lovely fellow..
carry on..
Churchill was negotiating Polands borders with is his homicidal bedfellow during the war.Not only did he sign away huge swathes of Polands eastern lands he also assisted his best buddy in covering up the distgusting crimes at katyn amongst other places.He then shook hands at yalta with a man with more blood on his hands than Hitler,i bet he could smell the blood of stalins victims when he went for a toilet break.

Argue,ignore,cry,whine all you want,thats what happened sweetie.

As the reply to that claim is off-topic, you'll find it in the off-topic thread.


You might want to remember that no amount of insults or lies ever change the reality of what actually happened, despite the way that asked to go into detail about the ways in which Britain failed to observe her treaty obligations towards Poland you can only reply with insults and/or lies.

Point out whats untrue about churchill negotiating polands borders with a homicdal maniac DURING the war and then being party to the cover up of the Katyn massacre.

I await your reply eagerly..

Remind us which world leader first proposed the present day western border of Poland.
Then remind us how many of the previous 250 years Poland's eastern border had been in place.
Then remind us which international treaty Poland broke when agreeing where that border was.
And then finally remind us what Britain was in any position to do about where Stalin said the Polish border was going to be.

And now I'm off to the pub.

Personal insult - should he be baned?


Obsessive repetitive rant signifying a mental flow or illness.


Instead of being attention seeker and whining to the mods to complain about mistreatment by others posters you could face the fact the Britain and France in September 1939 had not acted as they promised to \Poland in the treaty.

why is so hard for you to admit the truth ?Is wallowing in denial your pleasure?


People you know from what you are posting must be the kind to be eradicated. Most likely some SB or others Soviets collaborators progeny.

So? Its called War,its not nice,its not pretty and the rules are play dirty and hope you are still standing at the end of it. Get over it.

Again, in little words for Andrew. You have two allies, one has maybe 6 divisions of soldiers the other has millions upon millions of soldiers, who will you pal upto more in a fight to the death with the nazis?

" you could face the fact the Britain and France in September 1939 had not acted as they promised to \Poland in the treaty."
If you could go into detail about the ways in which Britain failed to live up to her treaty obligations to Poland, I'd be happy to address your points. But if all you can do is lie about those obligations and lie about what Britain could have done and did do, there is little to discuss.

i have tried to reply to your post harry but its been deleted twice for some reason i dont know why so i guess its just pointless...

because u did not pay attention to the forum rules with regard to cut and paste.

oops. Sorry about that.

Why would I need to go into details ?
The crux of the matter in that case is simple - they didn't fulfilled their obligations and no amount of play-words will change that.

" The crux of the matter in that case is simple - they didn't fulfilled their obligations and no amount of play-words will change that."

Pity you can't tell us how Britain failed to fulfil her obligations.....

I'm telling you and telling and yet you come back again and again and again asking the same question. Are you mentally challenged Harry or it is that you cannot fact the truth.

Well Harry are you ask for detailed instruction how to pay your bills ? For goodness sake you just pay them!
I think that you are being difficult.

It took me quite a while to get back to this, but I still want to answer that.

Do I understand you right? Because of a massacre that occured in the 14th century, the inhabitants of Danzig did not have the right of self-determintation in the year 1918, 600 years after that tragic event, and you would have made them subject of forcefully implied Polonization?

Does this also mean that the inhabitants of Berlin live there "illegally", because the area was once taken by Brandenburg's Albrecht the Bear from the Slavic Sorbs and Polabians and their defender Jacza de Copnic?

I never denied that Gdansk was a multicultural city until 1939, you forgot to add Kashubians, Russians and Jews in your list of minorities, but also Cracow and Warsaw were multicultural cities in earlier times. Does this multiculturalism make these cities less Polish?

Also what you call "Prussian state school's propaganda" was simply the spirit of the age: the age of nationalism. And this romantic nationalism was based on language. When the old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth went to the dogs in the late 18th century, the Europeans still lived in the age of big transnational realms and empires, the allegiance of the subjects went to a King or Emperor. When Poland revived in 1918 nothing was left from this old Europe that vanished during the Napoleonic era. Wasn't it Polish state school propaganda in 1920 to tell all the inhabitants of Poland that they were Poles and nothing else? It's just the nature of nationalism to use schools to make "proper citizens" out of their pupils, you can't just blame the Prussians for that.

Even if Poland had survived the turbulent 19th century as a state it is highly unlikely that it would have had the demographic power to Polonize all its ethnic minorities, so it would have lost Gdansk/Danzig anyway.

Since Gdansk is Polish city since 1945 in any event - the same as cities like Wroclaw or Szczecin, which have an even clearer German past - our discussion here is purely academic anyway.