Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement

Pretty well true.

" stop that nonsense Harry, you have nothing to say and yet you cannot stop posting - madness!"
I've got plenty to say: it's you who keeps refusing to say something, i.e. what Britain could have done but did not do in September 1939. I wonder if there it's now anybody left here who fails to understand why you refuse to answer that question.

Ironside, showing few idiots who hate everyone is not an argument. There are plenty of such people in Poland (i.e. football fans). Also your hate towards Lithuania is nothing new.

Acting according to said agreement, any more question - read my posts. Ask me one more time the same question and you are on ignore pronto! Do I make myself clear Harry ?


Are you another one with excuses ?Facts are facts !

'Not one of us shall utter a word about it'.
Ring any bells Harry?
I have read all your anti polish BS on this forum and you my dear,are an insult to every single Pole who gave their life for freedom across Europe.

Now run along and get back in bed with stalin(where your PM spent most of world war 2 by the way).

" Acting according to said agreement, any more question - read my posts. Ask me one more time the same question and you are on ignore pronto! Do I make myself clear Harry ?"

You just keep repeating your accusation but you always refuse to go into detail about how exactly Britain failed to live up to her treaty obligations. And you refuse to go into detail because you simply cannot: Britain fulfilled her treaty obligations. Or perhaps you can now go into detail about what Britain could have fine in September 1939 which she did not do?

So anyone who critisizes actions of your country in the past is Anti-Polish? Silly comment! Poor Lad!

Only silly thing here is your question.

This reads a little bit like: I found a raped woman on the street, no police was around, so I raped her, too. She was raped already so it didn't matter anyway.

Besides that your story is incorrect, because the Polish state pressurized Czechoslowakia alongside the Nazis in Summer 1938 already. The Brits were pretty upset about this fact. Churchill said in the House of Commons in October 1938 that this nearsided behaviour of the Polish government is going to have consequences.

Also Polish foreign minister Beck, alongside the Nazis, sabotaged the role of the League of Nations Representative Sean Lester in the Free City of Danzig. The Nazis had the absolute majority of votes in Danzig from 1934 on, but the demoratic constitution of the Free City could not be changed. So there were still democratic parties in Danzig that could operate freely. The Polish state did not care a thing about democrats fighting for their survival in the Free City of Danzig.

That is because Poland was not democracy.

You read is like this because you find it suitable to your views. To be honest your analogy sucks and couldn't be further from the truth.


What pressure ?Poland had been working hard to forge military pact with Czechoslovakia. They refused, repeatedly, when the tables were turned and their protectors and masters sold them, they despite modern weaponry, terrain which is a dream to defend, they capitulated.

Poland wanted only thing that that country could give - the stolen land back. What wrong with that ? Nobody wanted war right, nobody was fighting, everybody were happy.

Well expect Churchill according to you but who cares about Churchill?
By the way Czechoslovakia was an artificial country created like that by France to destroy for ever Austro-Hungary. Hungary's territory has been ridiculously shrunken.


Are you complaining that Polish government opposed the Nazis from taking over the Free City?You know very well that they were not democrats and there would be no democracy - hypocrite much ?

Anyway Danzig should belong to Poland only thanks to British muddling into continental affairs it was created the FREE City.

Seriously before the WWII Poland had only two serious choices, either behave like power or become Germany ally - read vassal.

My formulation surely is a bit graphic, but I can't see why you think there is no truth in it. Well, sometimes you just have to exaggerate things in order that people understand what you mean. Reading your posts here I figured you are a friend of the open word and you like playing hardball, so I am sure you can cope with it.


Not at all, Nazi Germany and Poland in collaboration derailed the work of the League of Nation institutions in the Free City of Danzig. And these institituions still guaranteed the democratic structure of politics in Danzig and equal rights for Jews, although Nazis had the absolute majority of votes.


Why is that? Danzig always had a broad majority of German speaking inhabitants from the Middle Ages until 1945. This is a fact! You won't find very much Danzigers with Polish ethnicity before 1945.

The only justification for such a claim could be that Danzig/Gdansk belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for centuries. This, of course, is true, but old Poland was a supranational realm, therefore the allegiance of the inhabitants of Gdansk/Danzig went to a state in which they could maintain their German language and culture unaffected from Warsaw.

The second Polish republic from 1919 to 1939 was something completly different, because it was designed to be a nation state reserved for the Polish nation alone. Other nations were suppressed there. Polish officials for instance boasted about the de-Germanization of cities in Pomorze (Westpreussen) and Greater Poland (Provinz Posen) after 1919, as you can see looking at this Polish propaganda poster: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Nalot_niemczyzny_1910_1931.jpg/220px-Nalot_niemczyzny_1910_1931.jpg

And this was not about driving Prussian administration officials and soldiery out of the country, which would be understandable, but ordinary Germans that lived in the country for centuries had to leave, often by force. This probably would have been the faith of the German Danzigers, too, if the Allies hadn't created the Free City of Danzig.

Indeed.


Er ...sorry to burst your bubble but Gdansk taken from Poland by the means of robbery, plain and simple. It had little to do with the allegiance of the inhabitants, who didn't think that their German language and culture need to be defended. Only 150 years of Prussian state schools propaganda made their progeny gradually change their allegiance.

Also Gdansk was multicultural with Polish, Scottish, Jewish and Dutch communities.


Yes, Poles learned well from their oppressors ie Prussian and Russian backwood tyrannic and undemocratic empires. Like always you (Russian and German) went ahead of Poles and invented genocide, ethnic cleanings and total war.


If you are talking about The second Republic, nobody was forced to leave, as for as I remember (I could be wrong) Germans had to pledge their loyalty to the Polish state.

Nothing wrong with that.


and ONZ should be disbanded.


OK ! You asked for it.
France (husband)pimped Czechoslovakia to Germany, she didn't protest but spread her legs, Poland fondled her breast. You say that Poland was an accomplice ? Firstly Are you serious, secondly, what rape?


Oh I have no problem with playing hardball but I object to your graphic formulation because there is no true in it.

Well, it was until it was ethnically cleansed and became entirely Polish.

Courtesy of Britain, USA and Soviet Unions.

First you deny that British servicemen fought and died in September 1939 and now you accuse British troops of taking part in the ethnic cleansing of Poland. Is there any depth to which you will not stoop?

You don’t say? The "Sitzkrieg" (sitting war) the Brits engaged in, did some actually died? From boredom I presume.

Is that would classify as personal abuse?

Yup
The world and his dog knows Britian and France sat and twiddled their thumbs in sept 39.
A token few flights by the Brits is about as intensive as it got.
Like i said,spinless incompetent Goverment with an intelligence service with a direct line to moscow.

Why are you slagging off Poland like that?

The UK goverment sold its ally down the river and its intelligence service was compromised by the NKVD.

Blame anyone but yourselves, eh?

Not really.
I blame the UK goverment in particular as they exhibited gutless attributes regarding Poland and its right to self determination.
The US also acted like cowards at yalta.
They also both played a part in the gutless distgusting cover up of katyn.

Yawn. Heard it all before, and it's nothing but Communist propoganda. Check your history books - you'll find that the whole concept of the UK "betraying" Poland was first seen in Communist propoganda showing the Soviet Union to be really acting in the interests of Poland.


Perhaps they considered Poland to be a mere pawn in a far bigger picture?


Oh yeah, that amazing cover-up that was frequently talked about on American (and British) funded media directed at Poland.

Still, anything other than admitting the harsh truth that there could have been no communism without Polish complicity, eh?

I was going to reply to that but as the saying goes.
dont feed the troll.

That amazing cover-up is in part to be blamed on the western media. At the Nuremberg war crime tribunals Katyn was cited on the list of crimes committed by the Nazis, Goring himself was implicated, where was that media then speaking the truth as to what had happened? I’ll tell you where. A little background to the story first.

Vilet was a U.S serviceman and a POW brought to the Katyn site as part of the Nazis international news conference to publicize the massacre. When Vliet returned to the States he wrote a report that concluded the Soviets were responsible for the murders. Vliet gave a copy of the report to General George Marshall's assistant chief of staff who subsequently buried the information in state bureaucracy. Another American George Earle a captain in US army who was assigned to investigate and compile information relating to Katyn reached the same conclusion, implicating the Soviet Union as the responsible party. However, Roosevelt’s government rejected Earle's findings and officially at least through the media remained convinced of Nazi Germany's responsibility. This action was later defended in front of the US Congress as it was not in American interests to embarrass an ally that the Soviet Union was.

The British government on the other hand publically stated via one of its media outlets the BBC that the British government stood firmly behind the Soviet version of the events. British Government publicly rejected the news of the events at Katyn that the Germans had announced just a few days prior when Radio Berlin first broke the story in 1943, mind you this is well ahead of what the Americans did, blazing the trail so to speak. That’s realpolitik for you and the truth as to what the western media and governments are capable of. They fair no better than the Soviets on the Katyn issue. Till this day Katyn remains to be the symbol of mass murder, official lies and propaganda war still waged against Poland by the very same players, not just those told by the Soviets themselves but that of the pillars of democracy where the truth supposedly always prevails, the British and Americans governments and press as well.

BTW Delf the credit goes to the Russians themselves for finally coming clean in the 90’s, as for the western media let’s just say they had nothing to do with that, shall we.

fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/pdf7/fco_ref_katyn_othera01

Report dated 1943

Get over it, it was a long time ago and is frankly irrelevant these days. What hurts more these days is the way that Poland is struggling to come to terms with just who collaborated against them - and it certainly wasn't the British or Americans.

All this crying and whining about WW2 - the majority of people in Poland have accepted it and moved on. The ones who still cry about it to this day are the ones who are going nowhere in life.

Personally, I think Britain shouldn't have got involved. What was the point, given that Poland had already behaved disgracefully in 1938?

Of course it did, it was Allied with the Soviets at the time and fighting against the Germans.....very naive to think WW2 was a clean fight old chap. Do you really think any allied nation would risk losing a country who could lose 300,ooo dead soldiers in one battle and still more or less win the war in Europe for the sake of the good wishes of just one of dozens of governments in exile with their attendant rag tag mini armies?

War is quite literally life or death,it is not and was never a nice game of cricket with gentlemanly rules.
Never be fooled by what a government says in public though, in this respect they are much like the Mafia, the ones who will kill you come at you with smiles and a warm embrace.

And this is the issue. Poland had alienated many of her potential allies, it had undemocratically changed her constitution and was quite obviously undemocratic by the time war rolled around. Hard to see exactly why Britain should get too involved, and even harder to see why anyone should feel sorry for Poland.