Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement

the thing is such though experiment is useless because no matter what happens with the EU no sane Polish government would do that - and sentiment for old borders is much greater in Germany than in Poland - there is NOT A SINGLE organization in Poland that promotes getting back some territory in the east - even the most nationalistic organization - that there are some misguided individuals who happen to spam forums about it is just the bundle transaction of the freedom of speech on the Internet

you were big and important before the First and the Second World War - I think it was pretty costly to seek to prove your strength and importance to world - does Germany's strenght and importance allow her to make everything in Europe to suit her????

Do you think this is the case? There is no doubt that Germany profited a lot from the European Union. Actually we are giving a lot of money to the Mediterranean countries, of course the German government wants to know where the money is going to.

Its a tiny piece of land occupied by Poles, hardly a self land grab more self defense.

70% of the population were Polish, its one thing to allow them to co-exist with the Czechs, another to allow the Germans to occupy. The circumstances had completely changed, but to you one - no-longer relevant - fact over rides the protection of a countries citizens?

ever heard of Nord Stream?
ever heard of proportional representation in the Euro Parliament? and what happened to Poland when it suggested a square root model? I wonder btw if Germany counts in all those millions of Turks who live and work in Germany and don't have a German passport ?

what is good for Germany is good for Europe right?

Yes, I did, and did I miss something? As far as I know a German vote counts viewest in the European Parliament. What is it with the square root model?

Northstream is that Russian-German gas pipeline through the Baltic ocean, isn't it? After the historic experiences Poland made with Russian-German special agreements I can understand this troubles you, but I wouldn't put this out of proportion.


Of course not! I would rather say what is good for Europe is good for Germany.

We Germans are now in an uncomfortable situation. If we do nothing preventing the collapse of the Euro then everybody says we just want to make money and then hide behind the back of the Americans, and if we try to make decisions for Europe and the Euro, then some other Europeans see German imperialism being back on the agenda.


I know Wikipedia is not God Almighty, but according to the English Wikipedia Poles only made up about 35 % of the population. It was the biggest ethnic group but without an absolute majority. There was also a sizeble German and Jewish minority: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaolzie#Census_data

isn't Germany supposed to cooperate with it's neighbours in the EU rather than an external power which Russia is? Germany has given Russia a tool to pressurize Poland. One early result is Poland pays more for Russian natural gas then Germany does. And a new pipeland could have run through nothing but Russia and EU states (Latvia, Lithuania, Poland). Poland does not have a history of not paying for it's gas (though the economic situation in Poland was quite dire in the late 90's)

Proportional representation in Euro parliament means that every country has a percentage of seats in the parliament that is equal to the percentage its population forms in the EU.

While it sounds perfect at first it's enough to have a couple of thought experiments. Imagine a situation where you have a union of Germany and say 20 states the size of Slovenia. These 20 states would have no say in a governing body of the union. Why joining or staying in such union altogether? In our real situation Germany, France and Italy (plus Spain I think) have jointly more population than the rest of the EU. If they want to have a strategical partnership with say Russia at the cost of other EU countries interests they can have it.

Squar root model prescribes a number of seat in a representational body that is proportional to the square root of the population of any member state.

I agree this was a selfish behavior of Germany. I did not know until now Russia uses the Northstream pipeline to blackmail its western neighbors. I am hearing this for the first time.


You should add Poland to the list of bigger EU members because it has as many inhabitants as Spain, and soon Poland's economy will be as strong as the Spanish one or even stronger. I don't say the organisation of the EU is perfect. A lot of things have to become improved, but of course bigger nations want to have more influence than smaller ones. I am sure no Pole would accept Lithuania or Slovakia gaining more influence on the cost of Poland's. It will need a lot of discussions in the future the find a model suitable for all of us.

In the end we have no other alternative as co-operation, since Europe's influence in the world is declining.

So when are we gonna get this back?

Would trade Wroclaw any day for it.

As I have asked many time here before and never once got an answer: can you go into detail about what support and assistance it was within Britain's power to give which was not given?


Got to laugh at that: while Britain was attempting to somehow give peace a chance, Poland was invading a neighbouring country and you want to talk about it being a proud part of British history!

But Poles would be a minority is this state then.

So? Look at the US. Multi culti is the way!

Then why bother creating new boundaries instead of dissolving them all?

I wouldn't, even though it includes my fathers 120 acre farm. You got to move on.

It is dishonest to sign an agreement that one does not plan to keep. Both Westerplatte and Warsaw (twice 1939 and 1944) had to capitulate because of lack of ammunition, water, food and medicines. Because of English assurances Poland was pushed into war.

And talking about hypothetical situations:

Suppose there was a soccer tournament in Poland and Ukraine, suppose that Germany were playing in Ukraine, where would you think the German team would be headquarted? In Lwow? Kiev? Maybe Krakow if they wanted to be close to tens of thousands of fans that surely were going to follow them?

Guess again.

Invitation to Gdansk: "Hey people come with your team, rediscover your roots".... and stay?

Hans Frank said that thousand years will have to pass for Germany to forget the WWII. Looks like 67 is mighty for some.

That's perhaps one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard on here.

Poland got pushed into war because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, combined with a disasterous foreign policy. It was nothing to do with "English assurances" or otherwise.

Erm, you do realise that the headquarters were chosen *before* the draw? It's the reason why England have ended up in Krakow despite only having the possibility of one game in Poland. Furthermore, the facilities available in Poland are far more reliable and superior to that in Ukraine. Portugal are headquartered in Opelanica (near Poznan) despite - shock horror - playing all their games in Ukraine too! Why? Because the grounds there are world class.


Why the hell would the Germans stay in a poor country that hasn't got much to offer them?

Instead of simply repeating your tired accusations, perhaps you could explain what you are banging on about? Can you go into detail about what support and assistance it was within Britain's power to give which was not given?

Of course the answer is that you cannot but no doubt we'll still be reading your boring claims a decade from now.


Really? Was it the leader of the British army who was boasting "Britain wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."?

And you might want to note that in the real world the German invasion of Poland was planned before the Anglo-Polish treaty was signed.

what Poland lost is one thing. Poland should be much bigger. Since humans live in this Europe, Poland and Poles are on its own, native Slavs. But Hungary, its another thing. Hungary was created as occupational state on the ground of Great Moravia, on ancient Slavic ground.

Furthermore, Hungary allied itself with Germanics in order to expand even more threatening local Slavs (Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians) and finally Greater Hungary was created.

in short, speaking of today`s Hungary, it didn`t lost anything. On the contrary

Precisely. I believe it was called Drang nach Osten:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Yes, they did not know where they would be playing, what shame.

Regarding England, if they had no intention of fighting in 1939 they should have done another Munich. But wait they did another Munich, didn't they?

Only it was 6 years later in Potsdam, after Polish people were killed and Poland was ruined. Thanks Brits!

Which has absolutely no relevance to today's post-unification Germany.

If you want to throw around dodgy political concepts, I'm sure we can start talking about the crimes committed in the name of Polonization.


Perhaps they actually wanted to stay in a place which has historical interest for Germans, too?

Would anyone grudge Poland staying in L'viv when playing in a tournament in Ukraine, or in Vilnius in a tournament held in Lithuania? Of course not - so don't be silly!


Hmm. It was your country that had nuclear bombs and could easily have forced the Soviet Union into a better settlement, not mine.

For what's it's worth -


Worth pointing out that the views of this poster are not the views of Poland, but rather of Poland 100 years ago.

I believe US did not have a pact with Poland, but maybe you know better.

You do realize that by focusing so much on the pact, you're just repeating Communist propaganda?

I hope I repeat facts not communist propaganda, I really hope so.
Anyway I am not anti-British, just realist, I know their hands were tied 1939 and later as well.

But if you want to know what Polish people think about British, here is one story:

it is 1973, June 6, Poland plays England for qualification to World Cup '74 in Germany. The best Polish best player Lubanski scores a goal,
then he gets a ball and looks like he would be again in position to score. Then brutal faul by Roy McFarland and Lubanski's career is finished.

Poland goes on to qualify after memorable Wembley match, then goes to WC and finishes 3-rd without Lubanski. What could have been
if our best player was able to play? The history would be different.
I am not making any comparison to gen. Sikorski. It's just bad luck that accidents happen when England and Poland interests collide.

Your way of comparing historical events with old soccer matches is very juicy. I see it's gonna become a very interesting European championship this summer. History will be written!

You could say similar things as to events what happen to Russia after American civil war, as Russia prevented invasion from England after civil war.


Never it was not ours, we ware occupying force.

Bollox,because of Polish cock wagging Britain was dragged into a war it could easily have avoided. Britain lost 2 thirds of the world after 1945,Poland lost a few hundred square kilometres....you do the maths there sonny jim.

BTW Captain America....Id stay schtum on ww2 if I were you. 1942 before any US soldiers started fighting. Warsaw 1944,shows how little you Yanks actually know about the Uprising.

Britains RAF (with a lot of Polish aircrew) flew dozens of re supply missions dropping supplies mainly directly to the AK of weapons they actually needed and more importantly,,not German weapons....meanwhile you Yanks flew one re supply mission and dropped a few tonnes of german arms and ammunition directly on the germans positions.....D'oh.....

And the alternative outcome of the conflict would have been more to your liking, I assume?

They fought like hell to keep their colonies and it was not in 1945 that they lost it, they willingly gave away the physical control but implemented banking control that expanded well over their previous holdings. Who do you think setup central banking ( bank of London ) and who has holding in it.

Nope.


No such thing.


And doesnt that p!ss the loons off,that Britain walked away without going on murder sprees.Infact, the murder spree's tended to happen well after Britain left.

These terms are also often used as metonyms for the United Kingdom's financial services industry, which continues a notable history of being based in the City.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

I don't know.
I let you compare Warsaw and Prague after WWII and income they generate now from tourism.
Also I'd like to hope that Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski would be able to write more. That's all.