Crow 154 | 8,997 3 Apr 2010 #125yes, he force me to use sh** practically at Easter [to put cross on myself]But, it is inevitable
Seanus 15 | 19,673 3 Apr 2010 #126We don't count reasoning, Filios :)Poland doesn't fully understand American business ethics and motives. Furthermore, they feel inclined towards that which they think will give them protection.
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #128But it's a major part of it. No offence but Poles really don't fully understand how Americans negotiate and go about business. Oh, come on. Why did you join NATO 11 years ago?Should I make it even more simple? BOTH Kaczyński and Tusk liked the idea of the shield but, frankly speaking, didn't know their arses from their elbows over the deal. Protection from who/what? Iran? ROTFL. What, did the need for protection suddenly disappear? LOL Come on, Ironside, see it for what it was. Shady business based on an even shadier knowledge of science.
Ironside 53 | 12,407 4 Apr 2010 #129BOTH Kaczyński and Tusk liked the idea of the shield but, frankly speaking, didn't know their arses from their elbows over the deal.I'm saying it all along but its goes deeper then a few politicians!Why did you join NATO 11 years ago?To be safe from Russia even if the threat wasn't imminent!No offence but Poles really don't fully understand how Americans negotiate and go about business.There no think-thank in Poland, ah, damn the details you are right but what I'm saying they should know by know.Actually the establishment in Poland is her worst enemy !
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #130Oh, geopolitics played their part in a very central way. How bad they look now that they were prepared to install a shield in the name of future danger but it fell through. Everyone knows that there is no threat to Poland and their paranoia over the Iranian nuclear issue is gonna get a lot of people in trouble. Time to tone it down, Obama.Exactly, to be safe from Russia. Although a bluff, Putin suggested that he would fire missiles from Kalingrad. Do you imagine those in the north of Poland would feel that safe? I don't. It was a pathetic mistake.The establishment in Poland have very bad noses and need to define the Polish interest. No wonder they are criticised by the people.
Ironside 53 | 12,407 4 Apr 2010 #131It was a pathetic mistake.As to the shield it was on the part of Polish politicians play to curb a favour with USA, and I mean personal gain - for example re-election !USA were playing other game, my guess is they were trying to pressurise Russia or maybe some internal interplays I'm not aware of.I didn't like the sound of this shield proposal from a start; it was obviously fishy - shame on politicians that they didn't recognize it as such!
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #132Well, they have to learn how to plea bargain, Ironside. A waivering of the visa requirement would have been a good start.It is said in Poland that when Tusk was elected in Oct 2007, he was already thinking about the next election, LOLPressurising Russia would be strange. It was part of the deal that Russian scientists could inspect the shield. Poland is out of current missile range of Iran so where was the danger? Obama has been making noises about a substitute but we can see that his stalling means that there is no imminent danger. It takes a while to set up the apparatus.Poland has to see that the War on Terror is a blatant extension of big business. In that respect, Obama is little better than McCain.
Ironside 53 | 12,407 4 Apr 2010 #133Poland has to see that the War on Terror is a blatant extension of big business.Definitely, I think Eisenhower was the last president who didn't needed industry of munition lobby support to become head of USA government.
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #134I think even Eisenhower had similar pressures. The arms firms were still on the go then and they were active in pushing the US into Vietnam. He was a little before that but America had just asserted itself as the major power after WWII.Plus, the Fed also worked on him but he was popular.
convex 20 | 3,928 4 Apr 2010 #135Eisenhower was the last president who didn't needed industry of munition lobby support to become head of USA government.Because of a single speech when he was leaving office? Check out the military budget under Ike...sure as hell didn't shrink.
PLAT 1 | 23 4 Apr 2010 #136as Poland can betray its Slavic brethrenwho cares about our slavic brethren ? We have pour own distinct DNA, Polish dna... we only share the Slavic language and a handful of slavic traditions dating back to the pagan era
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #137Well, some care for those traditions, PLAT. If you are happy with who you are then you can explore other roots too.What do you share with America? It is a country that is going downhill and can pull you into conflicts that Poland has nothing to do with. I'm very respectful of how Poles honour their traditions and they don't need to be pulled into traps. People here survive through being rugged and thrifty, I don't see why those greedy politicians don't take a leaf out of their book. Oh, those puppet strings, sorry.
ThePotatoe 2 | 38 4 Apr 2010 #138as they say..the person who knows ..how...will always get a jobthe person who knows....why....will always be his boss
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #139That's a pretty good way of looking at it, Potatoe. Pandering in the way that they did was a circus show. Tusk's speech in English was funny, he was sweating bullets. Condo Rice, a friend? He really slipped up there. That woman makes snakes look harmless.
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #141Ok, the Potatoe it is :)Poland needs to be furnished with a copy of the original PNAC documentation. They will start to learn a few things there. Sikorski's quest for President should have taken a major dent when he signed that shield agreement. He bent over backwards on that one. I'd like to interview him on this point. I can only imagine that the justification was to make Poland more secure. If that was such an urgent concern, why hasn't anyone followed through? Poland is full of self-serving morons that will lead Poland astray.
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #143Right, that's it, you are Spud from now on ;)Please go and buy Sikorski some vaseline, he's running out.Poland made its bed and now has to lie in it. Can anyone please tell me, what is Obama doing to make up for the loss of the shield? Nothing as Poland is not a priority for him.
ThePotatoe 2 | 38 4 Apr 2010 #144obama wants to take part in the horse riding competition this year...his horse name is PapaSquat
Seanus 15 | 19,673 4 Apr 2010 #145PapaSquat, LOL. DiddlySquat could also be a good title for him.Poland identifies America with safety. It makes sense to go with the most powerful but they were playing with fire with that shield.
convex 20 | 3,928 7 Apr 2010 #147Poland won't always be the puppet of America. Sometimes it will be the puppet of Russia, sometimes Germany, and sometimes Sweden. Who knows what comes after America.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,824 7 Apr 2010 #150Why not Ukraine Gruni?Did you know how mighty Prussia started out? From tiny, poor, sandy Brandenburg....en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrandenburgIf we could do it....
