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Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage...


guesswho 4 | 1,289
19 Sep 2010 #61
and it's pretty understandable since some people don't forget and don't acommodate easy to such big changes.

First of all, "it's understandable" because when they were born, it was a part of Germany.......
nott 3 | 594
19 Sep 2010 #62
I think he speaks Russian regardless;), language skills are not an argument in the Polish Ukrainian discussion.

Unless it's the first language, like in the Eastern Ukraine.

Now we are in the 1931, not in 1920 anymore, where your "crushing" majority occurred? ;) and you even don't bother to provide the link ;))))

You suggesting at least million Poles were relocated to Galicia between 1920 and 1931? Or your laugh is just a usual maniacal giggle?

This is my last talk to you, anyhow.

Glory be. Can't be more pleased.
andrei - | 25
19 Sep 2010 #63
First of all, "it's understandable" because when they were born, it was a part of Germany.......

Actually, My words don't collide with what you said and I didn't said it isn't one of the more important factors... going on: a other factor can be also a lot of national sentiment connected with such place (important historical events for the nation, arts and culture, architecture, genealogy and generally national/cultural heritage as a whole...), we could probably also think of other factors but this two are probably the most influential.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
19 Sep 2010 #64
Actually, My words don't collide with what you said

I didn't say anything against your opinion, I just believe that the most important thing for the Germans is that it was a part of Germany when they were born there. To be fair, it was a part of Germany for centuries and in some cases, always.
andrei - | 25
19 Sep 2010 #65
It's true, actually the same goes for Polish views towards Lviv and to lesser degree also to Vilnius.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
19 Sep 2010 #66
Agree. In case of Lithuania, Polish "influence" was actually limited to the Vilnius area.
In general it is up to a person to decide how he/she feels about it. Some where born there and say they are Polish and some say, they're Lithuanians. To be honest, waste of time to argue about it :-). I've met an old man who was born in Lwow/Lviv and he told me, he's Polish and then again some other people told me, they were Ukrainians.

sure, and Obama is a dwarfish giant from Venus - Wendy eh?

What I meant to say was that Vilnius area was definitely influenced much more by Poles than the rest of Lithuania. As far as the rest of it, ask some older Lithuanians how they feel about you. You'll be very surprised but why even try to discuss it with you, Americans are clueless when it comes to anything, don't you know? ....

Because of Poles like ironside I created my thread. It's hard to call someone a "friend" as long as you guys will be coming up with dumb ass comments like this him.

I know it's not all of you but "individuals" like ironside are messing up the reputation of others that really don't deserve it.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
20 Sep 2010 #67
off-topic content removed

but taking Lwow was just as logical as Germany getting Stettin or Breslau - it simply WAS Polish back then.

How logical? The fact of Polish 19 years' occupation of L'viv in the inter-war period doesn't bring any logic to it.

it's the fault of the Russians/Soviets and uncle Joe (or generally of the Yalta conference and the big 3) rather than Polish imperialism here

There is no fault whatsoever. You just keep on living in the 17th century and this is ridiculous. By the same logic, you may restore the Duchy of Warsaw and sing Marseillaise and have instead of Pilsudski monuments ones of Napoleon or have your capital in Vienna. It must be understood that old imperialistic ambitions that were and still are so popular in some lands lead to nothing else, but war and destruction. If every country will be seeing the so-called "faults" in history, there will never be any healthy movement forward. As I don't see any faults in Holm and Peremyshel' with the surrounding territories lying in Poland, then I see it normal for others to do the same.

if you have knowledge about a topic its very easy to spot someone who know basics or even less.

Holy smokes! To spot you, joke, one doesn't have to even try - your "intelligence" on any topic can kick the ground out of any reasonable creature's feet. Even my cactus died after it saw what you babble, Einstein.
nott 3 | 594
20 Sep 2010 #68
The fact of Polish 19 years' occupation of L'viv in the inter-war period doesn't bring any logic to it.

"the four centuries of Polish rule (...) in Galicia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv says though:

Poland gained control over Lviv and adjacent region in 1349.
which makes 6 centuries.

Seems renowned Ukrainian historian has about 2/3 of knowledge needed, and Nathan like 19/600, which is 3%.
smigly wilno
21 Sep 2010 #69
The acknowledgement is all some of us are looking for; that Vilnius was once Wilno, that it was a great city once, and that it can be again; that Polish Officers and Intelligentia were killed in Katyn and elsewhere; that no one person takes all the blame, and even if they did, they are dead and buried. To deny the past is to deny your own existence.
Ironside 51 | 11,337
22 Sep 2010 #70
Holy smokes!yahayayayh yadyafyaff bum dung blink dong Einstein.

What don't you edit some wiki quotes to prove you intelligence Nat CanUk? You know nothing and you should tattoo it on you forehead, cause otherwise sb could mistake you for a person - yack!

We lost enormous part of our heritage, hopefully not forever!
billpawl - | 32
23 Sep 2010 #71
All the surrounding territories, even as far as Holm, Peremyshel and around Vilnius were settled from times unknown by Ukrainians and Lithuanians, respectively

I never did quite understand that. I was surprised when I first heard Lwów used to be Polish as my Ukrainian relatives came from(and some still live) west of there, in current Poland, near Przemyśl.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
23 Sep 2010 #72
Poland gained control over Lviv and adjacent region in 1349.
which makes 6 centuries.

To be specific Poles controlled Lwów and its surroundings from 1349 to 1945, they were a majority (70%+ of population) since 1390 that makes Lwów polish for a grand total of 596 years and ukrainian for 65 years (its founder was ruthenian not ukrainian).
andrei - | 25
23 Sep 2010 #73
I never did quite understand that. I was surprised when I first heard Lwów used to be Polish as my Ukrainian relatives came from(and some still live) west of there, in current Poland, near Przemyśl.

There is no rule to this one, in those times you could probably find a lot of Poles even east of Lwów, as Poland and generally eastern europe as a whole was rather a very ethnically mixed region (apart from the native people's of eastern europe you could find back then a lot of jews in the cities, armenians, scotsmen and dutchmen in the more important trading cities, gypsies, and even germans as far as volga river).
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
8 Dec 2010 #74
no body is thinking to have war and take it back

Im sure you will find that some people are lol

If my opinion if Belorussian ( white russia ) was to no longer exist ( I dont know why it exist anyway Belorussians are Russians) we wouldn't have to bring up this issue. Poland could have Lwow and Brest and the rest could be split between Ukraine and Lithuania.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Dec 2010 #75
Well, some Belorussians still strive to be different though Russian is essentially imposed on them. Tell me, what connections does Poland have with Brest? What useful purpose would it serve Poland to occupy that space?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
8 Dec 2010 #76
Im sure you will find that some people are lol

Yes, Plastic Poles are. The ones who don't live in Poland, don't contribute and generally know nothing about Poland.

If my opinion if Belorussian ( white russia ) was to no longer exist ( I dont know why it exist anyway Belorussians are Russians) we wouldn't have to bring up this issue. Poland could have Lwow and Brest and the rest could be split between Ukraine and Lithuania.

How many Belarusians do you know? None? :)

I suggest you go away and read about who the Belarusians are before you make such ridiculous comments. Or would you like us to say that Poles are nothing but crossbreeds?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Dec 2010 #77
True, Delph. Even many Poles here haven't come into contact with a single Belarussian.

The 2 Belarussians I've known here speak fluent Polish and fit in very well. They see Russian as sth imposed, even to the extent that they have forgotten Belarussian language. If you claim that you don't know what external imposition feels like, you most certainly are not a true Pole as it's deeply rooted in their psyche. Try to understand how a Belarussian must feel. It's like me calling you a Czech person. Close enough, right? ;)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
8 Dec 2010 #78
Likewise, I've met 3 of them and they've integrated very very well. Certainly much more than some dumb Aussie who thinks he is Polish would do!
Nathan 18 | 1,363
8 Dec 2010 #79
Tell me, what connections does Poland have with Brest? What useful purpose would it serve Poland to occupy that space?

Well, there will be a reason to cry later that somebody kicked their asses out of there. It is a nagging need to be a "victim". Occupy - then cry and count years of occupation.

If my opinion if Belorussian ( white russia ) was to no longer exist ( I dont know why it exist anyway Belorussians are Russians) we wouldn't have to bring up this issue. Poland could have Lwow and Brest and the rest could be split between Ukraine and Lithuania.

If you are a Polish - make hypothesis about your own country's existance - not others. Bielorusians are a nation like yours. I didn't know there are still Neanderthals living in Poland. Open a book or internet from time to time and learn something at least.

I suggest you go away and read about who the Belarusians are before you make such ridiculous comments. Or would you like us to say that Poles are nothing but crossbreeds?

Exactly.

Even many Poles here haven't come into contact with a single Belarussian.

My parents used to travel across Bielorus' (it is not Bielorussia - note for those who cry over spelling in Lithuania) and they said that Bielorusians are the most hospitable people they have ever met. I am simply surprised how some people are ignorant and disrespectful towards not some nation far away on an unknown island, but to the neighbors which have never caused even a single war! But when it comes to Russians they are all upright, saluting and kissing a boot - rags and nothing more.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Dec 2010 #80
Precisely, Nathan. That's how it appears to me anyway :)

True also on the second point. There was a program once about Poles in Belarus (Minsk, I believe) and, despite feeling it to be grey (like Aberdeen), they were generally impressed with the people and offerings of the city.

For the millionth time, here we go:

'"Don't criticize what you can't understand" (Bob Dylan, The Times They Are A Changin)

Don't attack that which you really know little of, esp if you are an Aussie with little gumption. Plastic Poles, a loathesome breed for the most part!
Ironside 51 | 11,337
9 Dec 2010 #81
Our land is our land and that is that !
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Dec 2010 #82
Exactly, I-S. Good to see that you have settled on the current borders :)
Ironside 51 | 11,337
9 Dec 2010 #83
very funny !

youtube.com/watch?v=TmnEWNzngCI
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Dec 2010 #84
I'll watch it tomorrow, I-S. Thanks :)

Congrats on accepting those borders ;)
Ironside 51 | 11,337
9 Dec 2010 #85
you are pushing your luck !
Nathan 18 | 1,363
9 Dec 2010 #86
He is rather pushing your imagination :)
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,019
9 Dec 2010 #87
This is so terrible... This is like there were 4 brothers living in one big house... Now they chopped it up and build new walls in it without doors and the house got 4 doors to get inside... It's so sad :(
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
9 Dec 2010 #88
Well, some Belorussians still strive to be different though Russian is essentially imposed on them.

Would if be any different if Polish was forced on them.

but to the neighbors which have never caused even a single war!

Yes Russian are peacful people they have never started a war have they ;)

Congrats on accepting those borders ;)

No one is accepting anything...

Our land is our land and that is that !

You are the only one making sense here.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
9 Dec 2010 #89
Yes Russian are peacful people they have never started a war have they ;)

He's talking about Belorusians, not Russians.

No one is accepting anything...

Really? You're just a Plastic Pole - why don't you move here and campaign if you so passionately believe in it? Ah, wait a second - you're not even Polish!

You are the only one making sense here.

Run along to Stormfront now, little racist.
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
9 Dec 2010 #90
He's talking about Belorusians, not Russians.

I was being sarcastic if you didn't notice :)

Really?

yes

why don't you move here and campaign if you so passionately believe in it?

Who said i don't plan on doing so?

Ah, wait a second - you're not even Polish!

and you are? on your profile you write that you speak Polish badly I highly doubt you are but for your information I am Polish :)

Run along to Stormfront now, little racist.

Whats with all the hate? If you don't agree what I say just say so you don't have to call me a racist.


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