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Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage...


Ironside 53 | 12,363
29 Dec 2010 #271
Somehow?

It means that I'm not really interested in explaining that phenomena on PF! On the other hand you as an Ukrainian evenplastic one could use this knowledge but you are being in denial and all - Why shouldIbother ?
PennBoy 76 | 2,432
29 Dec 2010 #272
Let me tell you the story which you try to depict here:

Your sarcasm isn't amusing to anyone, we're seeing Ukrainian expertise on road building for Euro 2012. Way to go. The worst country roads in Poland don't look like main roads to Kiev.


Sokrates 8 | 3,345
29 Dec 2010 #273
So, to be the 1st to use rocketry is an achievement of Poles? ;)))

Not in the world of course, to be precise,the first use of rockets as an artillery weapon in Europe is a polish achievement.

The only time rockets were used as weapons in Europe prior to that was by the Mongols.

Any link? ;) You have a big mouth, I wonder why ;)

So Nathan you deny that Poles built the following in Lwów?

Entire downton, all bridges, all major hospitals, all major post offices, all train stations, the town hall, sewage system, 90% of all churches, 2/3rds of all cemetaries, the power grid that Ukraine was using untill recently?:)))

More than 2/3rds of all buildings in Lwów are polish built, more than 90% of all pre-1939 buildings are polish built, the remainder is generally Hapsburg.
Nathan 18 | 1,349
29 Dec 2010 #274
The worst country roads in Poland don't look like main roads to Kiev.

I know roads suck. The rockets you used from Portuguese done quite a damage ;) Nevertheless, a lot is being done right now to improve them. So, don't worry it will OK by 2012.

to be precise,the first use of rockets as an artillery weapon in Europe is a polish achievement.
The only time rockets were used as weapons in Europe prior to that was by the Mongols

Can you explain that macabre? ;) And also how Portuguese get to Poland with rockets?

So Nathan you deny that Poles built the following in Lwów?

Poles didn't built Lviv. There is nothing to deny. Power grid? ;) What is that? I know that Poles burnt 90% of Ukrainian churches and libraries. Train stations and hospitals were constructed under Hapsburg empire and for its money which Ukrainian and Polish taxpayers provided for the state.
Ironside 53 | 12,363
29 Dec 2010 #275
Poles didn't built Lviv.

Sure they didn't they just invaded powerful and peaceful Ukrainian nation, which was famous even before 333BC when they kicked ass of Alexander of Macedonia!

After short spell of Polish occupation, by the power of cultural achievements Ukrainians kicked out Poles. After that Ukraine become the world power under the name of USSR !

Shoot ! I could become a famous and cherish historian if I declared myself an Ukrainian !:P
Nathan 18 | 1,349
29 Dec 2010 #276
kicked ass of Alexander of Macedonia!

Where have I said that or that we are anyhow more culturally developed than any other nation?

I could become a famous and cherish historian if I declared myself an Ukrainian

Well, if you already made your name in Poland by claiming Kopernickus and Mickiewickus as Polish, then yes, try it. Anyhow, they won't grant you this ever - you are too funny :)
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
30 Dec 2010 #277
Can you explain that macabre? ;) And also how Portuguese get to Poland with rockets?

They did not, Jakub Moroski (though i might have mixed up the name) the polish ambassador to Portugal brought with him portugese engineers who passed their knowledge to their polish counterparts in Kraków.

Can you explain that macabre? ;) And also how Portuguese get to Poland with rockets?

Yes i can, Mongols used chinese rockets (they did conquer quite a bit of China) from what we know they used a primivite firecracker like rocket that caused more noise than actuall harm.

oles didn't built Lviv. There is nothing to deny.

So you're saying we did not build 90% of Lwóws historical and utility sites?
Nathan 18 | 1,349
30 Dec 2010 #278
portugese engineers who passed their knowledge to their polish counterparts in Kraków.

So, what Portuguese engineers were doing with that knowledge? Just kept it and never produced a rocket to fire waiting for Polish ambassador? ;) Or you would say that the Portuguese are not Europeans? What year Polish used their first rocket, which was before the rest of Europe did?

So you're saying we did not build 90% of Lwóws historical and utility sites?

If you mean Lviv, this is exactly what I said.
Ironside 53 | 12,363
30 Dec 2010 #279
what Portuguese engineers

They were Ukrainians in disguise !

What year Polish used their first rocket,

In 996 only ten years after Ukrainians military as the first in the world used rockets on the battlefield!

Ukrainian engineers:

red

and T-short for you :
Lwow_California - | 5
30 Dec 2010 #280
Just think of Lwow as an "AMBASSADOR" of Polish culture and heritage on a special mission to the entire former USSR, and now Ukraine, spreading the richness of Polish culture...

I was born and grew up in Lwow in a family with strong anti-Soviet sentiments... I certainly used to feel that Lwow was on the wrong side of the border... But now, as a former citizen of Lwow under the USSR regime, and as an American (for almost 30 years), I really see Lwow as a sort of "Good Willl Ambassador of Poland" in Eastern Europe, serving as a cultural bridge between Poland and many cultures of the former USSR.
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
30 Dec 2010 #281
So, what Portuguese engineers were doing with that knowledge?

Nothing, rockets werent exactly accurate at the time which is why Poland dropped them after about two decades of use as well.

ust kept it and never produced a rocket to fire waiting for Polish ambassador? ;)

Never produced a combat rocket, they did produce firecrackers for celebrations.

What year Polish used their first rocket, which was before the rest of Europe did?

At Orsza, i'd have to check out exactly but XV century.

If you mean Lviv, this is exactly what I said.

Ok Nathan who built Lwóws main railway station and town hall then? :)))) Your "ukrainian" city has a polish built town centre, polish built university, polish built college, polish built opera house, polish built main library, polish built catedral!

C'mon Nathan if its an ukrainian city why is everything in Lwów built by Poles?
Velund 1 | 537
30 Dec 2010 #282
they used a primivite firecracker like rocket that caused more noise than actuall harm.

If you sitting on a horse, some loud and unexpected noise may do quite a lot of real harm. ;)
Nathan 18 | 1,349
30 Dec 2010 #283
Never produced a combat rocket, they did produce firecrackers for celebrations

rockets werent exactly accurate at the time which is why Poland dropped them after about two decades of use

How is this different from using them as firecrackers? Simply you used them in the field and Portuguese - in the cities. 20 years? ;) Haha. You see, Polish realized they can't scare enemies by firecrackers. I just wonder why it took so much time? ;)

At Orsza, i'd have to check out exactly but XV century

Be kind to check it exactly. You are an expert of military stuff, so it would be nice to know for sure when you argue about this grand Polish achievement of using firecrackers in the field.

ukrainian city

Lviv train station was founded in 1861
Lviv train station facade and main structure was built between 1899-1904
Lviv Opera House opened in 1900, built in Austria and brought over piece-wise.
Lviv University of Ivan Franko was stipulated as one of the conditions of the Hadiach Treaty and was to be Ukrainian.
Lviv from 1772 till 1918 was part of Austrian-Hungarian empire and during this period appeared this architecture. Poland as such haven't existed at that time.
Latin Cathedral is still in Lviv and is one of my favorite anal structures. As you might notice it was never burnt by Ukrainians as compared to hundreds of churches Polish invaders destroyed in Ukraine and so many important historical monuments disappeared forever.

My point is that destruction is your main achievement here. You succeded.
Ironside 53 | 12,363
30 Dec 2010 #284
My point is that destruction is your main achievement here. You succeded.

yeah demolition guys thats us, you can always depend on us !

my point is when there appeared Ukrainian buildings when there was no Ukraine, no before 1990?eh ? smart pants ?
PennBoy 76 | 2,432
30 Dec 2010 #285
Motorways in Ukraine, 193 km (120 mi) (2010) but they did start building them like you said, that's good. Belarus has roads that Poland can still dream of, like this one.


Sokrates 8 | 3,345
30 Dec 2010 #286
Lviv train station was founded in 1861

By Poles and it was built in the interwar period not in 1861.

Lviv train station facade and main structure was built between 1899-1904

Again by Poles.

Lviv Opera House opened in 1900, built in Austria and brought over piece-wise.

Rubbish, it was built by Gorgolewski on site.

Lviv University of Ivan Franko was stipulated as one of the conditions of the Hadiach Treaty and was to be Ukrainian.

But was built by Poles.

Lviv from 1772 till 1918 was part of Austrian-Hungarian empire and during this period appeared this architecture. Poland as such haven't existed at that time.

However almost all projects were still undertaken by ethnic Poles and all mayors of Lwów at the time have been polish which shows that even under Austrian occupation Lwów remained polish:)

Latin Cathedral is still in Lviv and is one of my favorite anal structures. As you might notice it was never burnt by Ukrainians

It was never built by Ukrainians either, it was built by Poles.

Tell me Nathan how many bridges did Ukrainians built in Lwów :)))
Nathan 18 | 1,349
31 Dec 2010 #287
But was built by Poles

You can say whatever you want and dream of things, but the truth remains: Poles didn't do a thing in Lviv:)

Ukraine, no before 1990?

Open at least a book, małpko.

Belarus has roads that Poland can still dream of, like this one.

Nice road. I am happy for Belorus.

they did start building them like you said, that's good.

It is still nothing. Corruption eats away many steps we could have done forward long ago. But it is a process of evolution and it has to be lived through.
Ironside 53 | 12,363
31 Dec 2010 #288
Open at least a book, małpko.

Ah yes ! Silly me, the world famous book, must know for any literate entity on the Planet!
by Bohdan Makarenko"The 10 000 year of continuous existence of the Ukrainian Empire" !
Sorry, Nat obciagaczu :) my mistake:)
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
31 Dec 2010 #289
You can say whatever you want and dream of things, but the truth remains: Poles didn't do a thing in Lviv:)

Nathan our architects built every single bridge in Lwów, we built cobblestone streets that you use today, you can deny all you want but every single historical site in Lwów except for exactly six buildings have been built or commisioned by Poles.

Lwów is a city built by Poles:))

So Nathan tell me which bridges did Ukrainians built in Lwów? Why did it take Poles to build a university? Why were all the schools run by polish teachers?
Nathan 18 | 1,349
31 Dec 2010 #290
which bridges did Ukrainians built in Lwów?

We have one underground river called Poltwa, so it has no bridges over it ;) But if you mean the ones over the dry land, I guess most of them were built by Ukrainians, unless Poles managed in the interbellum to build something while burning libraries and churches.

Bohdan Makarenko "The 10 000 year of continuous existence of the Ukrainian Empire" !

Any link to your phantasy? ;) Somehow, I can't find it in any language.

we built cobblestone streets that you use today

Thanks, you were good boys. You see, Sokrates, when you serve properly I respect that. Yes, a few cobblestone streets built during Austro-Hungary were uncovered recently from Communist epoch's asphalt and it looks beautiful. I like when a horse knocks with its hooves on the cobblestone, it reminds me of your servitude, Sokrates, and I have a warm feeling towards you, thing so rare in my heart. You should be grateful for that.

Why did it take Poles to build a university?

What university? Lviv has 10 universities. Anyhow, none of them was built by Poles.

Why were all the schools run by polish teachers?

In the interbellum that was the case, which meant that sooner or later you have to be kicked out. The justice was served and now there are lectures in Ukrainian, English and either French or German if I am not mistaken. Feels great. Hope to see you in Lviv in 2012.
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
31 Dec 2010 #291
What university? Lviv has 10 universities. Anyhow, none of them was built by Poles.

Lwów has 1 university Nathan and it was founded by Poland and to be specific by our king John Casimir in 1661.

You can continue outright denial Nathan but together with Russians we've built a country that you live in today and make up some silly grand history to make your young nation feel better.
Nathan 18 | 1,349
31 Dec 2010 #292
Lwów has 1 university Nathan and it was founded

No, Lviv has 10 universities, Sokrates:

Ivan Franko National University of Lviv (ukr. Львівський національний університет імені Івана Франка)
Lviv Polytechnic (ukr. Національний університет "Львівська політехніка")
Danylo Halytsky Lviv National Medical University (ukr. Львiвський національний медичний унiверситет iм. Данила Галицького)
Lviv Stepan Gzhytsky national university of veterinary medicine and biotechnologies (ukr. Львівський національний університет ветеринарної медицини та біотехнологій імені Степана Гжицького)
National Forestry Engineering University of Ukraine (ukr. Український національний лісотехнічний університет)
Ukrainian Catholic University (ukr. Український католицький університет)
Lviv National Agrarian University (ukr. Львівський національний аграрний університет)
Lviv State University of Physical Training (ukr. Львівський державний університет фізичної культури)
Lviv State University of Vital Activity Safety (ukr. Львівський державний університет безпеки життєдіяльності)
Lviv State University of Internal Affairs (ukr. Львівський державний університет внутрішніх справ)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv
Ironside 53 | 12,363
31 Dec 2010 #293
No, Lviv has 10 universities,

Yeah, and had 241 universities but Poles destroyed them all except those 10 !
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
2 Jan 2011 #294
Nathan this is pathetic we both know what you mentioned here are not universities, do you have so little to come to the table with that you make sh*t up?
David_18 66 | 969
2 Jan 2011 #295
Ivan Franko National University of Lviv

The University was founded on January 20, 1661 by the King John II Casimir of Poland .

Lviv Polytechnic

1851 The number of students at the Technical Academy was 220, out of which 98 were Polish, 50 Jewish, 48 German, 19 Ukrainian/Ruthenian, 4 Czech and 2 Hungarian. In the same year, professor Wawrzyniec Zmurko (graduate of the Vienna Polytechnic) became director of the Department of Mathematics, as the first Pole in the history of the school. Zmurko is considered as founder of the Lemberg School of Mathematics.

1870 : A Decree of Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria established Polish as the official language of the school. Most professors not proficient in Polish left the Polytechnic.

November 15, 1877 : Inauguration of the new Rector - Professor of architecture Julian Zachariewicz. On the same day, consecration of newly-constructed school's building took place, carried out by three Lvov's Archbishops - Roman Catholic, Greek-Catholic and Armenian-Catholic and witnessed by Governor of Galicia, Alfred Potocki.

Polish enough?

Danylo Halytsky Lviv National Medical University

That's an facultie of the Original Lvov University...

Actually most of them are ;)

In the interbellum that was the case, which meant that sooner or later you have to be kicked out. The justice was served and now there are lectures in Ukrainian, English and either French or German if I am not mistaken. Feels great. Hope to see you in Lviv in 2012.

I hope you enjoy the city. Remember that evey time you visit Lwow you visit polish pride.

No matter how much you try to manipulate your history the truth always finds its way ;)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,739
2 Jan 2011 #296
1870 : A Decree of Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria established Polish as the official language of the school. Most professors not proficient in Polish left the Polytechnic.

Forced polonization of the ukrainian schools by the Austrians during the partitions???

What a Kuddelmuddel....
David_18 66 | 969
2 Jan 2011 #297
Pure asslicking ;)

Smart move though to keep the Poles in the austrian parlament happy.
Ironside 53 | 12,363
2 Jan 2011 #298
What a Kuddelmuddel....

You better be quiet about partitions, your Prussia should be flogged at last one more time !
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,739
2 Jan 2011 #299
your Prussia should be flogged at last one more time !

Come...let it rest...it's history now...
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
2 Jan 2011 #300
Forced polonization of the ukrainian schools by the Austrians during the partitions???

90% of teachers and students were polish

Actually most of them are ;)

All of them are faculties of the same uni but for Nathan those are all universities :)))


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