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How Poland was losing her intelligentsia


pawian 161 | 9,971
30 Jan 2013 #1
The thread has been inspired by a post by Monia who wrote about the death of Stefan Kudelski, a Polish born inventor. His inventions, though, weren`t made in Poland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kudelski

As the term intelligentsia isn`t too popular in some countries, here you are:

In the Polish language the term was popularised in a sense close to the present one by Polish philosopher Karol Libelt, and became widespread in Polish science after the publication of his O miłości ojczyzny (On Love of the Fatherland) in 1844, in which he defines "inteligencja" to be those well-educated members of the population who undertake to lead the people as scholars, teachers, clergy, engineers, and who guide for the reason of their higher enlightenment.

After the Partitions of Poland, Polish society remained divided into nobles-the surprisingly numerous class known as Szlachta - and peasants. The political and cultural influence of the cities was small in relation to Western Europe, though this influence was growing. The need for educated specialists created a new class of educated people: hired professionals, such as clerks, physicians, and lawyers. They were recruited mainly from among former nobles, but increasingly from the urbanized classes.

[i]The Polish intelligentsia specifically was considered the backbone of the modern Polish nation. Members of the intelligentsia were well aware of their social status and of their duties, of which working for the country and patriotism were considered the most important.
[/i]
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
30 Jan 2013 #2
Pawain, your OP doesn't explain this thread's title other than mentioning the death of the inventor Stefan Kudelski. Is it soley death that accounts for how Poland is/was losing her intelligentsia, or do you have other phenomena in mind too, and if so what are they?
monia 3 | 212
30 Jan 2013 #3
I think that Pawian understood my hidden intentions . I created my post about an engineer Stefan Kudelski for two reasons - as a posthumous memorial, but also to show Polish postwar sad reality where our intelligentsia had to move out of Poland to become a part of other countries elite society , instead of building Poland`s economy and strength . Not only Poland lost so many of them in Katyń - Miednoje massacre but additinally after the war due to so many refugies escaping communism .
TheOther 5 | 3,831
30 Jan 2013 #4
What about the people who left Poland after 1989 then? That was probably the third time Poland lost large (?) parts of her intelligentsia.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
30 Jan 2013 #5
Des, I started this topic when I ran into Monia`s thread. To be honest, I had been thinking for a while about a discussion on those multiple occasions that Poland was deprived of her intelligentsia stratum but I kept forgetting. But Monia reminded me of it so I started it at last. Do you understand?

but also to show Polish postwar sad reality where our intelligentsia had to move out of Poland to become a part of other countries elite society , instead of building Poland`s economy and strength

Yes, Monia, that is what I am planning to write about.

Why? I see how Poland lacks truly intelligent people, especially those most brilliant ones. Yes, Poles are generally clever and good at many things but the real progress is made by geniuses with a vision, Like Steve Jobs, for example. Such people are scarce in contemporary Poland.

Polish intelligentsia either perished in mass executions and massacres or left Poland for various reasons and never came back. Instead in Poland, they created made their art, inventions, literature in other countries.

Not only Poland lost so many of them in Katyń - Miednoje massacre but additinally after the war due to so many refugies escaping communism .

I thought of starting from mid 19 century, the time when the intelligentsia class came to being in partitioned Poland.

First loss was caused by November Uprising, 1831 which provoked the phenomenon known in our history as Great Emmigration

s

s

s

s

Joachim Lelewel (22 March 1786 - 29 May 1861) was a Polish historian and politician, from a Polonized branch of a Prussian family.His grandparents were Heinrich Löllhöffel von Löwensprung (1705-63) and Constance Jauch (1722-1802), who later polonized her name to Lelewel.

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/wiki/Joachim_Lelewel
jon357 63 | 14,147
30 Jan 2013 #6
intelligentsia had to move out of Poland

Plenty of inteligentsia stayed and more grew up post-war, with the huge expansion of education in the post-war years.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
30 Jan 2013 #7
Do you understand?

I do now. You are speaking of emigration.

Yes, Poles are generally clever and good at many things but the real progress is made by geniuses with a vision, Like Steve Jobs, for example.

Perhaps Steve Wozniak is a better example for this forum. He is not a Pole but he is Polish.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
30 Jan 2013 #8
You are speaking of emigration.

Not only. This thread is about loss by various means, also genocide.

Perhaps Steve Wozniak is a better example for this forum. He is not a Pole but he is Polish.

Yes, I heard about him but not enough: is he a genius with a vision?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
30 Jan 2013 #9
Yes, I heard about him but not enough: is he a genius with a vision?

Pawain, you mentioned Steve Jobs as an example of genius but you should realize that he and Wozniak were a team:

Stephen Gary "Steve" Wozniak[1]:18 (born August 11, 1950),[4] known as Woz, is an American computer engineer and programmer who co-founded Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.) with Steve Jobs and Ronald Wayne. Wozniak single-handedly invented the Apple I computer and the Apple II computer in the 1970s. These computers contributed significantly to the microcomputer revolution

/wiki/Steve_Wozniak
Wozniak is also, alas, yet another example of this thread's subject as his Silesian ancestors, that carried the seed of genius in their loins, emigrated to the USA.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
30 Jan 2013 #10
Pawain, you mentioned Steve Jobs as an example of genius but you should realize that he and Wozniak were a team:

Yes, I forgot about it, indeed.
monia 3 | 212
30 Jan 2013 #11
Polish are capable of, and many of them could be named geniuses in Poland, unfortunately, there are no conditions for their development.State expenditures on science are ridiculously low.

Example : geniuses fighting for financial resources for their salaries which they accumulate , but funnily everything is taken away by the state
ncbj.gov.pl

They have much to be proud of -
ncbj.gov.pl/en/node/1068
ncbj.gov.pl/en/node/1009
Ironside 48 | 9,843
30 Jan 2013 #12
The thread

You are as a teacher in the best position to explain that phenomena. Right?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
30 Jan 2013 #13
Yes. but I need Monia`s help. And others`, too. You can join if you want.
:):):):):):):)

E.g.,

Polish are capable of, and many of them could be named geniuses in Poland

Yes.
Ironside 48 | 9,843
30 Jan 2013 #14
E.g.,

Poland is ruled by morons who do not think about building or investing into the future but about stealing what resources are available.
they thinking is _Not what we can do to improve but how to have a cut in this. It is a perfect niche for the swamp creatures and brown-nosing dickheads not for intelligentsia and if they have to play by the swamp's rules.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jan 2013 #15
Iron, your words are strong, as always. And as always, there might be a grain of truth, like in everything what is said about anything.

However, I noticed it long ago and still believe it: your radically emotional outbursts against the Polish government are a result of your attempt to supress the feeling of guilt in you. Although, as a Polish patriot, you know that your place is in Poland, you have chosen a much more comfortable life in the USA. But that irritates you, because you still retained some decency and cannot forget the old country. So you attack with spite and hatred and deeply inside you believe it is a good pretext to delay/give up returning to Poland.

Correct me if I am wrong.
Ironside 48 | 9,843
31 Jan 2013 #16
Correct me if I am wrong.

I have answered to your direct question. You can make out of this what you will but do not get personal and do not play games with me.

I can as well say that because you are the part of the swampy ecosystem and you found yourself comfortable habitat, you are refusing to admit the truth about your surroundings because it would bring discomfort into your life.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jan 2013 #17
Nice try. :):):) But failed. Everything what I have I owe to myself and my family through hard work. Nobody, neither from PO nor PIS nor anybody else, gave us anything. My political views are of zero importance in my surroundings. They are completely private matter.

Never mind.

Hey, what will be my next post about? I mean - when was the next wave of emigration after that of 1831?
Ironside 48 | 9,843
31 Jan 2013 #18
Hey, what will be my next post about? I mean - when was the next wave of emigration after that of 1831?

It is your thread.
monia 3 | 212
31 Jan 2013 #19
Another example of an engineer who was born in Kraków - Pomagalski Jean (born in 1905 in Krakow, died., in 1969 in France) - French engineer of Polish descent, known as the inventor of the poma-lift system . In France they know his Polish origins but in wiki- Eglish version - under POMA - nothing is said about him and his Polish nationality . Skiers around the world use his invention every day not knowing that it was invented by a Polish engineer in 1935 .

Jean POMAGALSKI Deuxième pionnier en France, il construit «l'Eclose» le premier téléski de l'Alpe d'Huez à traction par «sellette»

pierremontaz.fr/pierre-montaz-pages/livre-pionniers-pomagalski.htm

English wiki says nothing about him , just this -Poma, also known as Pomagalski S.A. is a French company en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poma.
The same applies to Leitner POMA official site . Because it is now merged with Leitner , they write about its founder Gabriel Leitner , who was agriculture machinery maker , but nothing about Polish inventor whom they should thank to for their worldwide usage of their products, domination and expansion . WITHOUT MERGING WITH POMA, LEITNER WOULD BE ONLY MAKING SNOW GROOMERS . POMA would not exist without Jan Pomagalski the inventor and founder of lift system and POMA company .

What they say it is just this :

The name "Poma" comes from the founder, Jean Pomagalski, who developed the first detachable type surface lifts in France in 1935. From that beginning in the early days of the sport of skiing, Pomagalski, S.A., based in Grenoble, France, has become one of the largest manufacturers of ski lift and other cableway transportation in the world. "Poma" is known today in over forty countries worldwide. Poma came to America in the early 1950′s

It is so unfair that today they don`t want to admit in their website under history section , that their world dominance comes from a decent Polish engineer.


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