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Poland's January Uprisings of 1863


ArturSzastak 3 | 593
14 Apr 2007 #31
oh yes alot of them still are around, they are very old, but they remember.

I meant the people that do most of the working today. The veterans of WW2 are all senior citizens :)

something they cant forget till they die.

They'll even remember it after then, but that doesn't mean we can't get along with Russians :)
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
14 Apr 2007 #32
Just as some of my mothers cousins who came there and seen and couldnt believe
what they seen. it was horrific.

I was taking care of a lady recently. she was put in a camp.

she had dementia someting like that, usually they revert back to childhood, and
she reverted back to the traumatic part of her life. she was in those camps

its still very real to those who went through it.
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
14 Apr 2007 #33
its still very real to those who went through it

Trust me, my family knows WW2 better than most, and I know how you feel, but you can't honestly hold something against a people who's fathers commited the crimes, not they. I really know what you feel like Patrycja, trust me :)
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
14 Apr 2007 #34
They'll even remember it after then, but that doesn't mean we can't get along with Russians

I am not saying dont get along with them. but Both countries did everything they
could to wipe out a nation.

both should be responsible. Germany did the right thing. shouldnt russia.
I think so. even if it never happens, I think they should step up to the plate
even now if they did something, i think it would create a stronger bond,

dont you think so artur?

It would show they do have character, and remorse, and even though they are
also a strong nation of people, it would give them a better reputation in the long
run. I think people would see things differently towards them.
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
14 Apr 2007 #35
Germany did the right thing

Germany was controlled by the US and England, and was forced to apologize. Russia on the other hand, didn't have anybody playing puppetmaster so they did what they wanted. It was the communist government that made the Russian people look like monsters.

dont you think so artur?

Yes I believe we all deserve a heart-felt apology, but you have to udnerstand, that they can say what they want and not even mean it. People lie, and the Russian gov. is notorious for it.
shopgirl 6 | 928
14 Apr 2007 #36
Back to the uprisings....what brought it about and what went wrong? Need my history lesson for the day....

Back to the uprisings....what brought it about and what went wrong? Need my history lesson for the day....

OK.. I teach myself....Wikipedia says that it was started by young people who were rebelling against being forced into involuntary labor in the Russian army, and that it was the longest uprising-lasting for two years. The article also says that no cities were recaptured and the Poles had to resort to guerilla tactics. Russia retaliated against the Poles with executions and deportations to Siberia.

So I'm thinking that the "will to fight" was there, but there was not enough support, organization, and communication to pull it off. Otherwise, there may have been a very different outcome.

But I also think that the enormous bloodshed described is tragic, for so little to have been gained. But if I were in the same situation, and things were bad enough, I might to choose to fight and be free in death, if necessary, rather than to live in oppression.
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
14 Apr 2007 #37
shopgirl. good history lesson :) couldnt have said it better :)
shopgirl 6 | 928
14 Apr 2007 #38
Patrycja, were there any records kept of the deportations as a means to trace your family member? Wasn't everyone required to carry "papers" in those times to get through check points?
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
15 Apr 2007 #39
I recently found out that there was a book written about those who were deported
of course it only shows their names, which is good, i have that, what i want is to find
out if they made it out of siberia.. I know people didnt stay there, unless they did
I am very unclear as to those sent during that time, what their outcome was?

Rather wondering if they escaped, released? I mean whole towns of people were
sent, so did they survive? did they die there? just unclear picture to me..

help?
witek 1 | 587
15 Apr 2007 #40
The January Uprising was the longest Lithuanian and Polish uprising against the Russian Empire: it began January 22, 1863, and the last insurgents were not captured until 1865. It started as a spontaneous protest by young Poles against conscription into the Russian Army.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Uprising
shopgirl 6 | 928
15 Apr 2007 #41
library.yale.edu/slavic/slavic.html#archive

This is a link to Yale Library database. Do you have a name or anything to go on?
horunPoland - | 109
16 Apr 2007 #42
Grzegorz,

why don't you agree? think

what did the Warsaw Uprising accomplish?
1. 250,000 Polish people died
2. 90% of Warsaw is destroyed on orders from Hitler
3. many from AK perished

I don't agree with you Warsaw Uprising was a must. in that moment Stalin realized that Poland don't want to be next Soviet republic...there was some plans to do it...

and that is way he did't alowed to help american and british aircaft to land in Poland and he said that that rebel wasn't needed. hmm he also changed plans of war and direction of offensive to punish polish patriots of AK....
peterweg 37 | 2,320
16 Apr 2007 #43
the irish rebels were outnumbered by the British. They won. Im not rubbing it in your face. Just saying being outnumbered is not the excuse.

Difference being that the Germans or Russian are quite happy to level a city and exterminate its population.
Frank 23 | 1,183
16 Apr 2007 #44
Gee...for all Polish people on the board, I am sure its all too easily remember by your grandparents etc...an awful thing for your to have had to endure.

Again...its appears that Stalin, wanted Poland....bereft of its heroes, the men/women who would stand up and fight and resist...why have to get rid of them in 6 mths time when the Germans would do most of it for them?

Why waste another Russian life to liberate Poland....if a few more Poles can take out a few more Germans?

It served both nations, that Poland, was a wasteland...weakened....unable to put up much resistance after their horrible experiences.

Decisions were taken by the big players....Poland and its people were expendable pawns to be used and abused by their big neighbours...another European tragedy.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
17 Apr 2007 #45
Grzegorz,

why don't you agree? think

How :(
daffy 23 | 1,508
17 Apr 2007 #46
The Warsaw Uprising was a continuation of the unfortunate tradition of unsuccessful Polish uprisings, which were cultivated in the 20th `century

so were the irish successive rebellions and uprisings. you only need to succeed once :) (in theory)

Its all very well to attack it now - in hindsight.

but imagine you were there. you could no more stand by an injustice. no human could live like that. (a decent human that is)

all we can do, is use the lessons of the past and learn from them in the future. to learn from the errors and build on the successes

what did the Warsaw Uprising achieve?

your the type of person that says 'the end of the world is today!'

you only need to be right once!

i saw again, re the uprising (as you seemed content to repeat yourself rather than discuss further points)

its all very well in hindsight - if they knew then what we know now, they may have done it differently (may - as its moot point)
shopgirl 6 | 928
17 Apr 2007 #47
Witek, maybe the uprisings did not seem worth it to you because the desired result was not acheived. But to the people who stood up and fought, the cause was worthwhile enough to them to lay down their lives for what they believed. I have to respect that.
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
24 Aug 2007 #48
its all very well in hindsight - if they knew then what we know now, they may have done it differently (may - as its moot point)

looking back at this.. daffy your just amazingly right :)

lets see if any newcomers who havent seen this thread have anything to add to
it :))
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
31 Aug 2007 #49
If they are assassinating their own journalists today, why would they go out of their way to apologize to the Polish people.

you can`t blame Russian gov-nt in this assassination because you have no true evidences! So it would be better to keep silent, otherwise you will show your partiality and lack of information...:-(
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498
31 Aug 2007 #50
the irish rebels were outnumbered by the British.

Completely different and incomparable set of circumstances.
Shawn_H
31 Aug 2007 #51
you can`t blame Russian gov-nt in this assassination because you have no true evidences

You are right that I have no True Evidence. From what I have read, many seemingly politically motivated murders in Russia will go unsolved.

I merely formulated my opinion that Russia will not apologize to the Polish People for something that happened so many years ago based on the current Russian climate of fear in regards to "freedom of speach" in the media. As a westerner, it appears to me that in some aspects, not much has changed since the communist times in Russia.

It has been insinuated in the western media that the hands of the Russian Government and it's agencies are not clean in the murders people who held views contrary to that of the government.

These opinions have been based on articles like the following:

"Politkovskaya was not, it is true, the first Russian journalist to be murdered in murky circumstances since 2000, when President Vladimir Putin came to power. Among the worst crimes -- all, of course, unsolved -- were the murders of two provincial journalists from the city of Togliatti, probably for investigating local mafia; of Paul Klebnikov , the American editor of Forbes magazine's Russian edition, probably for knowing too much about Russia's oligarchs; and of a Murmansk television reporter who was critical of local politicians."

"Nevertheless, Politkovskaya's murder marks a distinct turning point. There was no attempt to disguise the murder as a theft or an accident: Her assassin not only shot her in broad daylight, but he left her body in the elevator of her apartment building alongside the gun he used to kill her -- standard practice for Moscow's arrogant hit men. Nor can her murder be easily attributed to distant provincial authorities or the criminal mafia: Local businessmen had no motivation to kill her -- but officials of the army, the police and even the Kremlin did. Whereas local thieves might have tried to cover their tracks, Politkovskaya's assassin, like so many Russian assassins, did not seem to fear the law."

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100800919.html

to keep silent, otherwise you will show your partiality and lack of information

Perhaps I could learn something through discussion and participation.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
3 Sep 2007 #52
First of all, pardon me please for my some sort of verbal aggression.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
29 Sep 2007 #53
So my ansestors fighted in 1863 near Suwalki. I know the story that after misfortune of up rise, Russians have taken all young man form family (6) to syberia, they decided to try to back to home and only one was succesfull and was back home. Rest of them died.

As to my family I m mix of Polish - Lithuenaian nobels and I m a litle bit (little little ;) ) duke, because I have blood of Radziwil family.
truhlei 10 | 332
29 Sep 2007 #54
Was that man your ancestor? Was yur family Suwalki resident? Do your ancestors precede from Suwalki powiat from dark centuries?
Where did they live in powiat and what do you know about their way of life?

As to my family I m mix of Polish - Lithuenaian nobels

Very interesting thing. Did you manage to find socuments on nobility confirmations in 1815-1830 and 1835-1855? Many details can be learned from these papers

As to my family I m mix of Polish - Lithuenaian nobels

Do you mean some of your ancestors were from Crown and some from Lithuania?

Are 1863 among your famoliars mentioned in lists of arested people?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
29 Sep 2007 #55
Do you mean some of your ancestors were from Crown and some from Lithuania?

Do you know what is Radziwł family ?

I know that my father is a litle bit radzwil, and my grandfather was always arguing with his cusine (he had surname Radziwil) what was better for Radziwł to do.(aguing about the past). But Radziwil isnt my main origin.

It is my coat of arms coming stright from my name and main tradition.

weerw
truhlei 10 | 332
29 Sep 2007 #56
Do you know what is Radziwł family ?

No persons who didn't hear about that family.

he had surname Radziwil

That is something new to such ignorant person as I. I thought Radziwil surname disappeared in 19 century because last men of this family didn't have sons.

what was better for Radziwł to do

To defend Lithuanian Independence!

It is my coat of arms coming stright from my name and main tradition.

What is the name of this Coat of arms?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
29 Sep 2007 #57
That is something new to such ignorant person as I. I thought Radziwil surname disappeared in 19 century because last men of this family didn't have sons.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radziwi%C5%82%C5%82

What is the name of this Coat of arms?

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubicz_(herb_szlachecki)
truhlei 10 | 332
29 Sep 2007 #58
Oh!!! I'm so ignorant!!!
Maybe it was told that duke dissapeared, not their relatives

Well I remember now. My grandgrandmother was of Lubicz as everybody of Onichimowski surname from Wolkowysk powiat.
But I don't pay attention to Coat of arms because their reception is so dark in Lithuania.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
29 Sep 2007 #59
But I don't pay attention to Coat of arms because their reception is so dark in Lithuania.

glorious for me as a Pole
truhlei 10 | 332
29 Sep 2007 #60
For small Lithuanian szlachta it may be in many cases doubtful.


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